I decided to go with a USB DAC Headphones amp, rather than a soundcard. I find the quality gains from onboard to this DAC on a whole new level (though I got a 2008 Mobo, LGA1366). You guys might want to consider doing USB DACs comparisons, since they are getting quite popular now days, with the cheap high quality brands such as FiiO.
Is Buying a Sound Card Worth The Money? An Enthusiast's Perspective
- Thread starter Matthew DeCarlo
- Start date
I'm 25 and I wouldn't expect my hearing to be great or even good for my age. I don't know how accurate this is, but my hearing really starts to fall off at 16,000Hz (just short beeps if anything, not long tones):
hellokitty[hk] I don't hear any difference between using the extension cords and not.
OliTheG
Posts: 61 +27
What a crap article. Really disappointing.
If you didn't even know how to compare (by listening to short segments) in the first place, then you aren't qualified in my book to talk about the differences.
And frankly, I don't think you have to be what you call "a snob" to deserve a sound card. You don't need a £1000 pound pair of speakers playing 100% FLAC (which would require every piece purchased on CD to be repurchased over various online retailers, and cutting out many, many tracks from before 2000, so I believe you are simply bullshitting) to appreciate a soundcard. I listen to streamed music, in game music, films, CD recordings and so on on some Harmon Kardon soundsticks III with my xonar STX.
Listen to "In The Air Tonight" by Phil Collins. "Blues Calling" by Imelda May. ANYTHING by Jools Holland. Stream it. It's a MASSIVE. LIGHT. AND. DAY difference of clarity and bass definition.
You can't get an entry level pair of headphones and a low-midend soundcard with music that compliments neither, then be critical about soundcards!
Oh, and here is a pro-tip. If something says OMG TEH AUDIPOHOAIWDHLIQEHF&UTYYYELLLEDEDEEE on the front, it's probably crap. This is why most people use RCA interconnect in hi-fi systems instead of optical audio. RCA is technically worse than interconnect, but it doesn't sound like shyte. If you are going to buy headphones/audio equipment based on the word "audiophile" then you are pretending to be something you are not, and a sodding *****.
And if it says "gaming," what it really means is that the bass drivers are overpowered and tinny, and the highs are understated, and the entire set of headphones are stupidly bright and sharp.
If you didn't even know how to compare (by listening to short segments) in the first place, then you aren't qualified in my book to talk about the differences.
And frankly, I don't think you have to be what you call "a snob" to deserve a sound card. You don't need a £1000 pound pair of speakers playing 100% FLAC (which would require every piece purchased on CD to be repurchased over various online retailers, and cutting out many, many tracks from before 2000, so I believe you are simply bullshitting) to appreciate a soundcard. I listen to streamed music, in game music, films, CD recordings and so on on some Harmon Kardon soundsticks III with my xonar STX.
Listen to "In The Air Tonight" by Phil Collins. "Blues Calling" by Imelda May. ANYTHING by Jools Holland. Stream it. It's a MASSIVE. LIGHT. AND. DAY difference of clarity and bass definition.
You can't get an entry level pair of headphones and a low-midend soundcard with music that compliments neither, then be critical about soundcards!
Oh, and here is a pro-tip. If something says OMG TEH AUDIPOHOAIWDHLIQEHF&UTYYYELLLEDEDEEE on the front, it's probably crap. This is why most people use RCA interconnect in hi-fi systems instead of optical audio. RCA is technically worse than interconnect, but it doesn't sound like shyte. If you are going to buy headphones/audio equipment based on the word "audiophile" then you are pretending to be something you are not, and a sodding *****.
And if it says "gaming," what it really means is that the bass drivers are overpowered and tinny, and the highs are understated, and the entire set of headphones are stupidly bright and sharp.
G
Guest
I like the consumer-friendly casual review but have two concerns with this testing. First, you did not play the audio unfiltered but used a preset. Don't do that. Get the actual sound from both onboard and discrete audio.
Second, and this is a big problem, what about the placebo effect? Just the fact that you knew which audio mode is on would have a dramatic effect on your perceptions of the sound. Get a second body to switch the sound modes, and listen to new clips. This is still not double-blind but at least the subject should be blinded if not the experimenter.
Second, and this is a big problem, what about the placebo effect? Just the fact that you knew which audio mode is on would have a dramatic effect on your perceptions of the sound. Get a second body to switch the sound modes, and listen to new clips. This is still not double-blind but at least the subject should be blinded if not the experimenter.
G
Guest
I wanted to add my two cents too 
The thing about a discrete soundcard is'nt simply the better sound, even if it is really better. I bought my Audigy because I play games and wanted positional audio. Everyone who plays with decent headphones, I use AKG K530 by the way, simply needs a decent soundcard. Dolby Digital and DTS Live are not to be ignored either.
A friend of mine who played for years with onboard-sound, nearly thanks me on his knees for the gift of an Audigy It's simply not the same sound without it.
The thing about a discrete soundcard is'nt simply the better sound, even if it is really better. I bought my Audigy because I play games and wanted positional audio. Everyone who plays with decent headphones, I use AKG K530 by the way, simply needs a decent soundcard. Dolby Digital and DTS Live are not to be ignored either.
A friend of mine who played for years with onboard-sound, nearly thanks me on his knees for the gift of an Audigy
It's simply not the same sound without it.Revolution 11
Posts: 245 +338
I can add to this. If there is ever a Round 2 of this experiment (easy to do, you have all the equipment), go ahead and turn off the audio presets, and get a second person to switch the sound from discrete to onboard and vice-versa.
But also get that person to select the clips for better rigour. 30-second clips are great, but add some dialogue clips as well, not just music or sound effects. Dialogue in games can be a very large component of the user experience and I want to see if normal human-range dialogue is improved as well.
I am also interested in how onboard audio has or not improved. I have a Asrock z87 with "Purity Sound". It does sound quite better than my other computers, but none have a discrete sound card. Has onboard audio gotten better or is this also placebo effect as Guest points out?
(I guess if it sounds better, it really doesn't matter)
Revolution 11
Posts: 245 +338
To anyone who has a Radeon R290 or 290X, how does TrueAudio measure up to previous discrete audio? Even without TrueAudio support in games, does the included DSP help at all?
Burty117
Posts: 5,110 +3,689
I take my last statement in this article back, Guests are not the worst posters, "OliTheG" is...
Please, dear god, read the article again, notice how he mentions he is no pro and it is just a Noobs perspective? All he was doing is "does having a discrete sound card sound better than onboard sound?" - resounding answer was "yes".
Also, you rant saying he said FLAC was needed, he said the complete opposite, he said anything above 256kbps didn't make much difference... I don't know where to start with your comment, it is such a load of rubbish it hurts my brain...
Thanks for saving me from having to make that post Burty.
I have the same soundcard, and compared to my onboard sound (ASUS Sabertooth z87) it does make a noticeable difference.
I usually listen through my Steelseries Siberia v2 headphones.
Most noticeable difference for me was in games, the immersiveness is improved drastically. It's hard to explain but it makes a huge difference in games, especially with the ''game'' preset mode.
In music I would suggest to listen to 320kbps and above, anything less does hinder the quality you get through the soundcard and it's noticeable that the quality sucks (atleast to me).
I don't really use any of the equalizers for music though. It's perfectly fine without.
I usually listen through my Steelseries Siberia v2 headphones.
Most noticeable difference for me was in games, the immersiveness is improved drastically. It's hard to explain but it makes a huge difference in games, especially with the ''game'' preset mode.
In music I would suggest to listen to 320kbps and above, anything less does hinder the quality you get through the soundcard and it's noticeable that the quality sucks (atleast to me).
I don't really use any of the equalizers for music though. It's perfectly fine without.
Kintigh
Posts: 6 +3
Wow this subject has generated a good deal of feedback and rightfully so. The computer audio sector is alive and kicking and ready for some strong advances. All the work being done with DAC's and loss-less formats makes for some pretty exciting conversation.
Would seem TechSpot could delve much deeper into the wondrous world of computer digital audio and it seemingly never ending gyrations. There is some pretty interesting work with DAC's and vacuum tubes in the higher end of things. Shucks a whole section of TechSpot could be devoted to computer related audio and I would soak it up like a sponge.
Would seem TechSpot could delve much deeper into the wondrous world of computer digital audio and it seemingly never ending gyrations. There is some pretty interesting work with DAC's and vacuum tubes in the higher end of things. Shucks a whole section of TechSpot could be devoted to computer related audio and I would soak it up like a sponge.
learninmypc
Posts: 9,679 +724
My first pc, Win Me, didn't have a sound card & since I didn't know the guy that built it for me didn't put it in, I said nothing.
Another better friend took it one day to fix some stuff & put one in & WOW, didn't know what I was missing.
Another better friend took it one day to fix some stuff & put one in & WOW, didn't know what I was missing.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Xj2oPNZ0oKE/learn/homeaudio/computer-music.html
This article has the closest answer to my question, but the sentence included the word "probably" so if anyone knows better, please do give your 2 cents.
Q: Sound Card + AV Receiver = best sound? or just one of them will do the same?
A: "If your computer has a digital audio output and your receiver has a matching digital audio input, you'll probably get better sound quality by using this connection. Unless your computer has an ultra-premium sound card, the DAC inside your receiver is likely to be superior to the one in your computer."
So:
1) Both sound card and receiver have this DAC thingy, and I only need one to do the job..."Probably"
2) Receivers are dedicated, more capable and more reputable (Onkyo, Marantz, Pioneer etc.), so if I will connect my PC to a receiver, then I don't need a sound card...Surely!
3) I can free up lanes on my motherboard without compromising my audio experience (like building a M-itx HTPC with a discrete graphics card, or a SLI/CF Atx Desktop while spacing the cards out for good air cooling) and connect the PC to my receiver using HDMI and get the best possible sound........."Likely"
This article has the closest answer to my question, but the sentence included the word "probably" so if anyone knows better, please do give your 2 cents.
Q: Sound Card + AV Receiver = best sound? or just one of them will do the same?
A: "If your computer has a digital audio output and your receiver has a matching digital audio input, you'll probably get better sound quality by using this connection. Unless your computer has an ultra-premium sound card, the DAC inside your receiver is likely to be superior to the one in your computer."
So:
1) Both sound card and receiver have this DAC thingy, and I only need one to do the job..."Probably"
2) Receivers are dedicated, more capable and more reputable (Onkyo, Marantz, Pioneer etc.), so if I will connect my PC to a receiver, then I don't need a sound card...Surely!
3) I can free up lanes on my motherboard without compromising my audio experience (like building a M-itx HTPC with a discrete graphics card, or a SLI/CF Atx Desktop while spacing the cards out for good air cooling) and connect the PC to my receiver using HDMI and get the best possible sound........."Likely"
R
Raoul Duke
More TS articles about the ways and means of computer audio would be nice. For example, I like stereo, don't have 5.1 or more, so I am happy with an Asus Essence STX hooked up via double RCA to double RCA shielded cable to a NAD C316BEE Integrated Amplifier. I use the Essence's head phone amp because it sounds better with my 300 Ohm Sennheiser HD600's than the NAD. Use the Hi-fi setting on card and tone defeat on amplifier.
When I explained to the NAD salesman what I was trying to do, he mentioned the "clock" on the mobo or card (b/c it has a sound processor) would not be as accurate as on a digital amplifier and would introduce (jitter, I believe) imperfections into the sound. With optical inputs/outputs, SPDIF, and some who use mike input or record there is a lot to be explored here. But bottom line, I couldn't live without a soundcard although I haven't listened to the mobo's with high-quality sound that advertise that they can handle high impedance headphones. I can't imagine a computer without good sound and a good monitor.
When I explained to the NAD salesman what I was trying to do, he mentioned the "clock" on the mobo or card (b/c it has a sound processor) would not be as accurate as on a digital amplifier and would introduce (jitter, I believe) imperfections into the sound. With optical inputs/outputs, SPDIF, and some who use mike input or record there is a lot to be explored here. But bottom line, I couldn't live without a soundcard although I haven't listened to the mobo's with high-quality sound that advertise that they can handle high impedance headphones. I can't imagine a computer without good sound and a good monitor.
R
Raoul Duke
I am 51 and had my ears professionally tested upon military discharge. Awarded for hearing loss in L ear in vocal range. Trust me, the difference, it's like night and day. In a side to side test with someone with better ears you may not beat them, but for your personal experience you will greatly enjoy the better sound, especially with the lower end good audio stuff. With ears like ours there is value to a point and then diminishing returns, but for computer audio price levels, definitely go for it.
Discovered the 'edit' thanks to who pointed that out!
G
Guest
Thought this a good article. Don't like the comments that denigrated the author for technological deficiencies - he made plain the informal subjective nature of his inquiry. Scientifically it's like choosing to look at a wild rose and then denigrating it because it's not a cultivar. Ridiculous.
But I'm not clear about stuff that came up in the comments.
What's this about a 'receiver' ? Does that just mean your headphones or your own head or something?
And some seem to be saying that headphones are the most important thing. What are they saying? That if we buy good headphones we'll get better, much better, results from our onboard?
And something about output. We don't have any choice about what sound output we use, do we?
And this 'techspot' - not really too on the ball technologically is it? I tried four times to join up. Sucks you into a hassling procedure and then tells you joining up via posting or at the same time as or something is not allowed, chucks you out. Tried the facebook thing and it didn't work. All sorts of things. Tech excellence would mean joining up would be easy as falling off a log......
And this ad verification... what an affront that is....
But I liked the article so much..... I'll do it...
But I'm not clear about stuff that came up in the comments.
What's this about a 'receiver' ? Does that just mean your headphones or your own head or something?
And some seem to be saying that headphones are the most important thing. What are they saying? That if we buy good headphones we'll get better, much better, results from our onboard?
And something about output. We don't have any choice about what sound output we use, do we?
And this 'techspot' - not really too on the ball technologically is it? I tried four times to join up. Sucks you into a hassling procedure and then tells you joining up via posting or at the same time as or something is not allowed, chucks you out. Tried the facebook thing and it didn't work. All sorts of things. Tech excellence would mean joining up would be easy as falling off a log......
And this ad verification... what an affront that is....
But I liked the article so much..... I'll do it...
G
Guest
I agree with another "guest" poster... I remember when we HAD to have sound cards and now you really do not need them if you want a basic good sound.. the motherboards now produce good quality sound.. I have built all my PC's from scratch since the early 1990's; I still prefer the sound cards and always have bought a Sound Blaster - right now I have Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Gold card, 5 speakers and a woofer.. awesome with movies !!!
Jack Reacher
Posts: 23 +1
It only takes one simple comment to understand the "sound card situation": "Creative Audio Drivers".
Creative chased away more business than could ever be imagined with horrible customer service, terrible products including their drivers and anything else with the "Creative" name on it. I still have yet to buy a Creative product since 2005.
So I can hear a donkey fart at 100 yards as opposed to 75 ... So what's the point?
Creative chased away more business than could ever be imagined with horrible customer service, terrible products including their drivers and anything else with the "Creative" name on it. I still have yet to buy a Creative product since 2005.
So I can hear a donkey fart at 100 yards as opposed to 75 ... So what's the point?
I think a dedicated sound card makes a huge difference in audio fidelity whether listening to music, watching videos and movies or playing games. Most onboard solutions are "good enough" but a sound card paired with a nice speaker setup will give you eargasms.
cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
What I find amusing is a concept that dedicated cards could be sold, as if they didn't make an improvement in performance. It boils down to whether on-board sound is satisfactory. And if not then get yourself a dedicated card. Only a computer illiterate would think on-board (whether it be graphics or sound) is comparable to dedicated cards.
For my usage on-board is completely fine. But then I suppose that is because, I am completely oblivious to how well dedicated sound can be.
For my usage on-board is completely fine. But then I suppose that is because, I am completely oblivious to how well dedicated sound can be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV_receiver
In the 80's I was an audio HiFi engineer. I have forgotten much but, still have a modicum of common sense.
Putting an amplifier or AV receiver on to your sound card is obviously going to be much better than those crappy little computer speakers. I've had a Yamaha RX-V595aRDS attached to my system for over 10 years now.
The system still sounds as good as when I first bought it but, it won't be. Capacitors age and with that comes degradation. The old Leak amplifiers used to fall out of the RIAA curve in 3 years. The only solution was to change all the capacitors. Modern amps are much better than that but, I digress.
I use optical for my output. This is provided by my on-board Realtek ALC889. Theoretically it shouldn't matter if you use coaxial or optical for your digital output. In practice you can't tell the difference, but there is a major one, the wire and plug. From what I remember there is a 3db loss over every junction, plug or socket. Also wire can pick up background noise from the mains or other equipment. Even if the plugs are gold plated it is still possible to pick up noise on the connections with movement of the plug in the socket.
There is just so much wrong with that. How would the clock not be as accurate? The clocks you are talking about are spot on frequency, whether on your mobo, card or "Digital amplifier". They do not alter or jitter, I'm afraid that's just bollocks.
Never rely on a salesman's word. Go and get professional or expert advice.
As well as the on-board Realtek ALC889 I also have installed a second sound card. This is a Soundblaster X-Fi Extreme. I really cannot tell the difference in sound quality through an optical connection from either card.
Most sound cards (including on-board) sample at up to 48KHz. Audio sampling is usually done at 44.1KHz for CDs and 48KHz for DAT. If you want to sample at a higher rate you will need a sound card that samples at a higher rate. Some sound cards will sample at 96KHz or above, so you need to choose carefully. Some mobos don't support on board digital output but, this can be achieved by connecting a coaxial cable to your motherboards SPDIF (Sony Philips Digital Interface).
A sound card might be for you if you have specific needs. Optical in and out. Higher frequency sampling. Multichannel recording. MIDI interface.
In general, I would say your on board sound is perfectly adequate if using a HiFi system. Even better if using digital out. And yes, the headphones will sound much better through your HiFi than through the sound cards on board amplifier.
I have tried not to go in for too much detail because there is a lot to cover in sound. What I have tried to put across is just some of the basics.
Terry
G
Guest
I want dividebyzero to comment on this matter,like most of his postings.Share your opinion on this dividebyzero.
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