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Linux and 7. How to have both?

Discussion in 'The Alternative OS' started by mountaincat, Nov 16, 2011.

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  1. Leeky TechSpot Moderator Posts: 4,344   +59

    The majority of those posting advice in this thread (me included) have been using Linux for many years. We all learnt the hard way back when the terminal was the method of installing it. The graphical installers used today are very intuitive, but they really do nothing to help people understand the underpinning function of Linux.

    Fedora is more unusual than most. Its fairly advanced from a typical user standpoint, perhaps a little too complex and finicky from an average users' perspective. I have a fair bit of experience with Fedora. As I do with OpenSUSE, Debian, Ubuntu (and 'buntu based distros like Mint) and Slackware.

    The biggest tip I can offer someone learning Linux is to learn why you are doing things. Using an LVM is a perfect example -- you've no idea why you used it. You need to understand its function, benefits and drawbacks before you can make an informed decision. This is often the issue with people moving from Windows to Linux. Linux is not, and never will be Windows. Your best viewing Linux with an empty mind and "ignoring" everything Microsoft taught you to use their OS -- None of it is of use really and your better off reading up on the steps you need to make before completing them in order to understand why you are. When your system breaks, the time you took to learn functions will become invaluable.

    I personally I not tend recommend against dual boot for those learning how to use it. A VM is a much better idea, and works more reliably on a per-install basis than physical hardware does. It also gives new users the security of a working Windows install should problems arise, and they will as confidence grows.
  2. Night Fire TechSpot Member Posts: 35

    Here is screenshot guide i made it might not be as good but its my first i hope it helps i will include how to manually create partitions in few minutes. I hope it helps
    Here

    the process starts with ss1 and ends with ss30 photobucket did scatter them around and not in order so be careful
  3. Leeky TechSpot Moderator Posts: 4,344   +59

    Could you explain why you feel the need to create a small 3rd partition (Disk 0, partition 3 @ 9.8GB) formatted to NTFS please?

    If that guide is to be useful it will need considerably more organisation mate. Being mixed up like it is, is going to add to the confusion. The OP also wishes to use Ubuntu.
  4. jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 12,223   +120

    @leaky: I'm going to cry UNCLE and abort here. A wise man once said, "My cup runneth over" - - mine just did and it's a mess. Good luck :)
  5. mountaincat Newcomer, in training

    I had no idea how complicated (to me) this all would be. I may have fiddled a bit here and there with hardware and with html and css, but I don't have the time or inclination to learn what is needed for Linux, so maybe I will nix the idea of dual OS on that laptop. Thank you all for your suggestions.
  6. Glad we got that out of the way early in the thread... :rolleyes:
     
  7. SNGX1275 TS Special Forces Posts: 11,893   +117

    Well, as it was mentioned above. If you can start from a blank hard drive, it would be easy enough to install Win 7 and then install Ubuntu. You can even do the default 7 install (where it uses the full disk) and then when you install Ubuntu you allow it to resize your Windows partition.

    I think Ubuntu will want to take a lot more than it probably needs. So you may want to manually partition at that point in the install, and give Ubuntu like 10-12 gigs with a couple of those going towards swap and the rest going to /

    The dual boot will be set up automatically for you then, and you'll have 2 usable operating systems with minimal headache. And if everything goes to hell with the Ubuntu install, its simple enough in Windows to just wipe out the Ubuntu partitions and then expand your Windows partition to reclaim the space.
  8. mountaincat Newcomer, in training

    I will have my son read this thread and see whether he wants to pursue this dual environment. Reading all of your comments I now realize that for me, the dual OS looks like double the trouble of just one OS and I already have issues with the one. But if son is willing to give it a go, well maybe. And he has used linux a bit and likes it.

    I do appreciate all the feedback, the banter between you all makes me see that I either must jump in the deep water, or just stick a toe in. Posting these questions is like the toe thing, and I see there are big fish biting....
  9. Leeky TechSpot Moderator Posts: 4,344   +59

    Just install Virtualbox on your own computer, then install Ubuntu to it. You can find out for yourself what is involved then without any concerns about dual booting and/or breaking your Windows install. It won't be as fast, but save for a few things (VM's usually install better for start) it will offer you the same desktop experience as it would running it as a full host OS -- all-be-it slower.

    Either way you'll then have a definitive answer as to whether you wish to proceed or not.
  10. mountaincat Newcomer, in training

    Great Idea Leeky. Will do.
  11. Night Fire TechSpot Member Posts: 35

    Firstly i want to apologize for the state of the guide i was on a hurry when i made it didnt get much time to organize it and the photobucket came in and screwed the order of the pictures.
    Due to the post limitation regarding images and links i couldnt post the pictures here so please dont hold that against me :)
    The 3rd partition is for data sharing between both systems ofc i could just make one partition for windows and linux would still read data off of it but if this partition gets crowded it will effect windows performance as windows needs alot of free space on the system partition to operate correctly.
    Its also not small as i said its for demonstration only (a partition for windows 50GB+ and 20-25Gb for linux i know its too much but better safe than sorry and the rest for a data sharing partition. if u have larger/smaller HDD u can modify the given layout to fit ur HDD.
    Also ubuntu's install process isnt that much different from fedora's and most linux distro's so it should be fine
  12. Leeky TechSpot Moderator Posts: 4,344   +59

    No worries dude, though I'll share with you my thoughts:

    1. A 3rd partition for sharing is unneccessary. I understand your reasoning behind it, but Linux is capable of reading and writing to NTFS partitions with the correct driver and permissions. Most scenario's would involve the file being needed for Linux. On the rare occasions that you need a file for Windows (on Linux) you can just send it to the C: disk. If cross-OS readability is a major concern you could just use the C disk as a default for files as you use Linux. Just because you have a /home partition doesn't mean you need to keep all your documents and media there for example.

    2. Linux is fine with as little as 5-10GB, though it is dependant on the DE you run. e.g. KDE, Gnome, XFCE etc. In extreme cases with minimal installs as little as 3-5GB is possible, and with storage availability on modern systems typically larger than ever its not a massive concern.

    3. Dependant on the software used with Windows, less than 50GB is possible. I think your estimate is about right though, and will provide for a optimum experience.

    4. I suspect most people would view it differently. My situation is a little different to most, as I have a 64GB SSD, 1TB, 2x 2TB (Raid 1), and 320GB. Even with all that storage space I still only use about 30GB for Linux. Any more is just unneccesary, though I do appreciate as I said that my circumstances are different to most.

    5. I haven't really looked at Fedora since release 14/15, so I can't confirm. There are usually differences in all installers though -- how much depends on what distro's your comparing.
  13. I don't run windows, so my interest in dual boot is minimal...

    There is some use in Night Fire's idea if a "storage partition" however. In fact I have always had a FAT32 storage partition and still do:

    Code:
    $ df -hTl
    Filesystem     Type   Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/root      ext4   9.2G  1.2G  7.6G  14% /
    /dev/sda5      ext4    28G   12G   15G  46% /usr
    /dev/sda6      ext4    26G   14G   11G  56% /home
    /dev/sda3      vfat   9.8G  8.8G  988M  91% /fat32
    tmpfs          tmpfs 1004M     0 1004M   0% /dev/shm
    (it's an 80GB PATA disk - I do have a SATA 2 controller on this board but no SATA disk drive yet...)

    As you can see I always mount separate /usr and /home partitions. I do this so that between installs/reinstalls of different distros (happens rarely these days) I can preserve my files untouched and any other stuff I have in /usr/local/ . Ideally that stuff should go in /opt and if/when I next reinstall that's probably how I will do it.

    My /fat32 is a relic of the dual boot days. I used it as a convenient means for dumping files that I wanted to access in Windows. Nowadays it's simply redundant and I've been meaning to get rid of it for quite a while but have never quite gotten around to it.
  14. jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 12,223   +120

    EXCELLENT system management :) As a developer, not only do I isolate /Home, but have a /Dev partition for building software.

    {failure to plan is defacto planning to fail }
  15. Strange that you mount /dev on a separate partition. Isn't that pretty much pointless nowadays as in most modern systems udev populates that directory at boot time and there would be nothing worth preserving there between different installs anyway...?
  16. jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 12,223   +120

    oops; /SDEV, aka Software Development. /dev is for devices :( grrrrr.
  17. I see. I don't do any coding, but I keep my /build directory under /home/myuser as it's more convenient, I don't need to set any permissions or use root permissions and as I said previously /home is on a separate partition.
  18. Night Fire TechSpot Member Posts: 35

    thats the beauty about linux you can do whatever you want with it and it'd still perform 100% making your install and distro up to the entire system as personalized as it could get.
    The only problem that would make someone dual boot/OS is that some of windows software cant be ran on linux and doesnt have a decent alternative on linux which are needed by most people who are emigrating from windows to linux also all modern games "which what im keeping windows for :)".
  19. DeepThought007 Newcomer, in training

    It's not really that hard to do. Just download a copy of Gparted(it's free).
    Burn it to a disc. Insert the disc. Reboot the computer and Format a free portion(Unused) of your HD to an NTFS partition. Then remove your Gparted disc and insert the Windows Seven Installation Disc and Windows will install in the newly formated partition. There is no danger at this point of losing your linux partition because your Windows OS Does not recognize that part of the Hard Drive. You will want to download and burn a copy of GRUB(it's free) as the new Windows OS tend to mess up the boot sequence and GRUB will restore it.

    The two things you have to careful about is in formating the Hard Drive you DO NOT
    format the part of the drive that holds your Linux System and that you format an NTFS partition large enough to hold the Windows OS.