My 1st Build - Need Suggestions & new to TechSpot

thank u sooooo much............definitely cleared things up......

i notice that most people say that 4 sticks on a MOBO will be tough to have an efficent PC....so...in your opinion...do u think it's better for me to get a DDR2 800 MOBO if I wanted to have 4 sticks? Or two 2gb sticks?

What is more ideal...MOBO with FSB 1333mhz supporting DDR2 800 and having me put 4gb of ram....or MOBO with FSB1333 mhz supporting DDR2 1066 and having me put 2gb of ram?

Any final thoughts on this board?

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3P Rev 2.0 LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Ultra Durable 2, Ultra Cooling Intel Motherboard - Retail

thanks again!

There is really no difference between the P35 chipset motherboards that support DDR2-1066 or DDR2-800. Just the one's that claim they support DDR2-1066 memory slightly overvolt the northbridge and overclock them from 400 to 533 mhz speeds.

You wont be able to fully use 4gig of RAM unless you install a 64 bit OS. You'll wind up with 3.Xgigs of your 4 gigs usable.

2gig DDR2-1066 sticks of memory are difficult to find and rare. 2gig DDR2-800 sticks are much easier to come by.

So in a nutshell, I'd opt for any motherboard that has DDR2-1066 support, and use DDR2-1066 speeds as long as you have only 2-sticks. When you go to 4-sticks, just simply set the BIOS to DDR2-800 speeds (DDR2-1066 memories run at any lower speed flawlessly.. they are the same memories as well).

The Gigabyte you linked is a great unit. All the mobo's you've linked are good as they are P35 chipset, so basically the same but with different southbridge (USB and RAID support will vary) and different BIOS options. Initial setup can be trickier if the BIOS doesn't support memory sub-timings and voltage IF the corresponding memory you choose is unstable at lower/default voltages.

I only mention the Abit's and Asus mainboards since these have all this in the BIOS, so you only need get this far to set memory sub-timings and voltages. This is a non-issue if you get memory that runs well at lower voltages (i.e. 1.9V or below). That first boot- your memory will likely boot-up at DDR2-667 or DDR2-800 speed at 1.8V. How stable that memory is at those speeds depends on the memory you buy.

The new Gigabyte you have linked I believe has sub-timings and accurate voltage adjustments in the BIOS. The previous/cheaper does not and requires a tool in Windows to be installed to set these properly. This is a problem if you go with memories rated at 2.2-2.4V, as they wont make it to Windows boot at 1.8V reliably for the setting to take effect. You can set some voltages in the BIOS, but they are unreliable on that model as well (i.e. set mem @ 2.2V, they actually wind up at 2.4-2.5V until they hit Windows and the tool loads- properly setting them at 2.2V). This is also fine with more robust/quality memory... but never desirable if avoidable.

Hope this helps!

If you want good RAM that will easily overclock to 1066MHz, get a Crucial Ballistix kit. Otherwise, methinks you're ready to go.

thanks for the feedback...

does everyone have to set voltages when buying new DDR2 for their PC? Or only if their MOBO doesn't have that feature of sub-timing....also when I'm looking for memory sticks..i see in the specifications area it had a section called timing with numbers like 5-5-5-15....I don't have to pay attention to this if I'm not OCing right?

This is an Intel chipset specific issue. Intel i9xx and P3x Northbridges are only rated for 1.8V memory voltages.. period. It's companies like Abit, Asus, Gigabyte and others that bring the "better than standard" numbers and allow for achieving better performance.

If you look at all the properly JDEC rated memories for DDR2-800, they are all rated at 1.8V operation. 3rd party and performance memories generally use higher-performance, lower latency chips as well as can clock much higher for performance. These usually require more than 1.8V to do this. If you buy better quality memory, they will offer JDEC compliant 1.8V operation at lower speeds, but then only need 2.0V or more at higher speeds/latencies. Cheaper memories do not- they are designed to run at 2.1-2.4V at any speed and are unstable otherwise.

For example, most Crucial or Mushkin memories have a DDR2-800 @ 1.8V setting, but also can run at DDR2-1066 @ 2.2V kind of thing. Most can endure up to 2.5V with proper cooling, which means some folks even clock these higher (like DDR2-1200 or more speeds), but then also have to tweak the Northbridge voltage/speed to match.

The above is also why OEM memories are so expensive. Say, if you bought a Dell- many lock the BIOS at 1.8V memories so you have to hunt down specific 1.8V DDR2-800 memories. With aftermarket, you can put just about anything in them and use the BIOS to adjust based on your combination you have bought- or go past the Intel rated speeds/latency/voltages with a few adjustments. This is primarily for gamers or performance enthusiasts. You can get a LOT more bang out of a C2D 6550/6750 with better memories, lower latency or at higher speeds.

correct me if I'm wrong, so basically it doesn't really matter what memory the board requires..you can just buy one and OC it to the proper standard memory the board takes as long as you have proper cooling and have the right settings on the BIOS.

so even though newegg said the board takes DDR2 1066, when I checked the Memory Support List for the MOBO it listed DDR2 800, I should be fine with buying those, correct?

when you mentioned the term latency...is that referring to the speed at which the chip is able to process memory?

I also have a processor question. Why is the Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor cheaper than the Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor when the speed is much higher?

Thanks again!

If i were you i would go with the 6750..I honestly cannot tell you why the 6750 is cheaper and you could OC either Processor for better performance. I just ordered the 6750 2day and you will save 50$ easy.

Edit: The Front Side Bus on the E6750 is better (1333) than the E6600 FSB @ 1066...The reason for the higher price I dont understand Either.

That is where the brand of memories comes into play.

As mentioned prior, the actual CHIPS on the memory sticks vary and some can run better, cooler or tolerate more voltage than others. Crucial Ballastics have been known to handle 2.5V and 1200mhz speeds from their DDR2-800 memories with complete stability. Mushkins have similar in their High Performance line.

Correct. DDR2's are all pretty much standard. So even DDR2-667's will work. But the faster the memory, the more bandwidth your processor has for moving lots of data.

Memory performance comes in two forms:
Latency- this is the pause or delay it takes for a given operation to begin/complete.
Bandwidth- the capacity of data that can "flow"

DDR2 (and DDR3) memories are high latency (i.e. slow on response), but have great bandwidth. So if your CPU does a whole ton of smaller operations, but without a ton of data needed from them, it will be slower. But for single operations that require large amounts of data, it will be faster.

Think of it kinda like files. If you have 2000 tiny, tiny files to copy around- you'd want lower latency. Each file would be a copy operation, but the data from them is small so bandwidth isn't really needed. Alternatively, if you had one HUGE file to copy, latency wouldn't be a big deal (the operation would get executed quickly), but then you'd want big bandwidth to move the huge amount of data.

On the new G0 revision processors- these are using a newer, cheaper process to manufacture, so they are cheaper to produce. The older, 1066mhz FSB CPU's use an older process and more expensive to produce. There is really little gain though from the higher FSB speed, which as you've now seen- are still connected to 400 (or 533mhz) memory bus. As the data fed to them is fixed/reduced in size, it doesn't really matter much how fast the FSB speed is if the flow of data is only so much.

thanks for all the great feedback and info! Learning a lot!

I want to start purchasing my parts.

Crucial Ballistix Tracer 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

Has a Voltage of 2.2, I do not have to worry about this with the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3P Rev 2.0 LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Ultra Durable 2, Ultra Cooling Intel Motherboard right? I checked the memory list for the MOBO and it says its compatible. I'm just curious about the voltage thing again.

All I have to do is go into the BIOS and set the volt to 2.2 right? Or how do I know if the MOBO will automatically adjust the DDR Ram to its correct voltage?

Thanks!

As you are going with 2.2V memories, I would assume if it's listed on the motherboard compatibility list then it should post at the default ddr2-667 @ 1.8V setting. This will allow you to go in the BIOS and properly set speed and voltage.

When you get your system built, that first boot-up/post, you should go into the BIOS and setup DDR2-800 speed, as well as visit the dram voltage setting and ensure to put this at 2.2V. Save/Exit, reset.. and it should then boot-up at full DDR2-800 speed.

I strong recommend making a Memtest86+ floppy or burn a bootable cd. This is a really good way to test a brand new system for stability prior to installing the OS. If you can get a few runs of this to work with 0 errors, chances of problems installing the OS and instabilities are greatly reduced.

Sine I never built a computer before, if there are errors, does it tell you? And make you reboot again and again until the errors or gone?

What is the Memtest86+ for? Do I just burn the Pre-Compile Bootable ISO onto a CD and on the FIRST boot, I boot from disc?

What happens if I don't use Memtest86+?

Thanks again for your prompt response!

This may be marketing, or manufacturing considerations on Intels part.
Intel knows that you would have to buy a new board if you buy a CPU with the 1333 FSB. Whereas, the E6600 is a retrofit part. They might be gambling you'll buy the new board from them!

They are gearing their production facilities toward the newer units and probably have more production set up for the later CD2s and the new Penryn 45 NM CPUs. If I can (and do) make more faster, then I can sell it cheaper.

thanks for the reply..

so i been browsing on newegg and came across these:

CORSAIR 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5 G - Retail and as mentioned before..it's better for two sticks...so now it's two gb...the only thing that is bugging me is that it's not on the list of memory from gigabyte...im guessing it would be fine as long as i set it properly on the BIOS, right? latency is 5 and voltage is 1.8v...

im searching for 8600GT 512mb...but there's so many sub brands....like EVGA, XFX, PNY, etc...which one is better? Or what is the best way to pick one of those out?

EVGA and XFX are good brands. You really want to pick a video card based on brand reputation, warranty, GPU and memory speed. Higher and longer is almost always better. I have two video cards from EVGA and haven't had a problem with either yet.

Thanks...I'm looking at the XFX PVT84JYAJG GeForce 8600GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card and it seems like a decent card....

Do most people buy their parts all at once and build their PC..or buy parts one at a time?

On Memtest86+ yes, it will list errors on the bottom half of the screen in red. These will be where it encounters problems performing many kinds of cpu -> memory operations.

You make the bootable CD, and then once you have all your BIOS settings saved, boot off this CD instead of the OS cd so as you can perform an initial stability test. This will test your memory, cpu, cache and mainboard to ensure it can beat up your system without encountering any errors. If you should encounter errors, this can alert you to something being a bit too tight in the BIOS or a power/cooling problem. This saves time since you can usually get the OS, patches and drivers installed before finding many errors that Memtest86+ will find much quicker. You may spend 3-4 hours getting your OS setup + drivers, then encounter random/periodic Windows errors or get blue-screens a few days later trying to play games or heavy system use. Memtest86+ thoroughly abuses your system and verifies the results so as it can identify BIOS, cooling, power or flakey hardware issues much faster.

Corsair and Crucial memories are both good brands. You should be okay with the Corsair memory. I'd also recommend you flash the BIOS with the latest from Gigabyte's website if it doesnt ship with the latest BIOS installed already.

As far as buying hardware in stages vs. all at once, this will rely on your chosen vendor's return policy. Bad hardware happens- sometimes you can get hardware that is DOA or flakey and requires a return. Some components have limits on when they can be returned (like 15-day or 30-day), so as long as you have enough time to test/ensure stability within the return period, you should be fine if you buy components over time. It's always best to get everything at once, then you don't have to deal with return limits should you get a bad piece of hardware.

thanks for the reply....is there a special way to make a bootable CD, such as a program to use? Or do I just burn the file to a blank cd?

You just need to download the memtest86 .ISO file, which is actually a CD image that needs to be burned onto a CD. If you use Nero, there's an option in there called Burn image to disc or something similar. I mainly use Alcohol 120% to make and burn CD images. It makes a perfect 1:1 copy of any CD\DVD and in different formats too, besides allowing you to burn them as well. Try it out.