Need to build comp on 600 dollar budget

By link590o
Aug 24, 2007
Topic Status:
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  1. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 8,410   +213

    Thought you would appreciate the info I provided. My mistake.
  2. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    WHOA! hey. harsh words mailpup. take it easy. i didn't mean it like that.

    of COURSE i appreciate the info. i asked for the help. its just that i keep getting so many conflicting reports. some say one is better than the other, and then i hear the exact opposite. so i figured i'd better get what was more important straightened out first. and this doesn't just go for you. that goes for everyone that even considers replying. it's all appreciated. whether i act on it or not is my decision though. and that needs to be respected. that's all i ask.

    as for the power supply, that gives a sigh of relief. i freaked out about that because every little detail matters with something like this. it all has to work swimmingly or it'll be an expensive paper weight.

    as much as i hate giving up the extra wattage, i'm not sure i can afford it. the only thing that worries me is...the whole SLI thing. one graphics card alone requires a lot of power. a graphics card x2 would require a heck of a lot more. so i'm still torn. for my own interests, should i go with a more powerful supply for future expansion? or should i stick to the less expensive one? that's really the issue. of course cheaper is always better. but i'm looking further on down the road from now. if i decided to....for instance, upgrade my graphics cards, they'd require more power. 550 watts is a lot, but i'm fairly sure that at least 600 would be far more comforting...but that stupid price...UGH.....

    now i know why computer companies are in business...they worry about this stuff FOR you...but its worth the learning experience and having a computer thats all my own.

    if you guys think 550 will be enough, we'll go with that. otherwise i'll grin and bear it and see if i can cough up the extra cash.

    as for the graphics chip, according to that article the 1950 is better than the 8600. and i've heard multiple people suggesting it. it does offer startling performance in terms of frames. but what about visual quality? its not necessarily all about the frames. in terms of frames AND visual quality, which one is better? i'm talking about shadows, decals, specular, and texture quality, all of the special details that make the game more of an experience. you can have 1000 frames a second, but have terrible image quality.

    i can predict what's going to be said, but i'd rather hear people's opinions on the matter first before i make any decisions. don't get me wrong, i'm just trying to get the final word so i don't regret my decisions later.
  3. samjohnson

    samjohnson Newcomer, in training Posts: 320

    Ok for the power supply, I think for the 7600GT you have to have 25amps or so for SLI mode. (not sure if this is right, so anybody can correct me if I am wrong). And I know that my PSU which is a rosewill 550watt has I think 33 amps. Im not sure on this and it varies for every PSU so you would have to do some reaserch on that. It also varies for the amount of amps for the GC. Now also keep in mind that if you get a radeon card they have a crossfire which is like SLI but for the ATI cards. But you would have to get a crossfire ready motherboard. Now, I would stay away from ATI just cuse I like Nvidia but that is my preference. I have heard that ATI tends to overheat but so does some of the higher end Nvidia cards. And if you get a higher end card instead of a 7600GT or something like that you won't necessarily need to put it in crossfire or SLI mode. Good luck on all the decision making. Boy Im I glad that I didn't ask this many questions when building my comp couple months ago. It can get real frustrating at times... but totaly worth it. :D

    **EDIT** Ya so I would go for the 550watt PSU if it has enough amps and everything to run in SLI or crossfire. :D

    Just in case you might be interested this is my PSU. The first one I got was DOA but that can happen to anything.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182017
  4. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,281   +24

  5. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    hm....yeah its quite nice. but i feel like 500W isn't enough for the kind of rig i want. and considering i want to upgrade later, 500 is a little scanty. and as soon as i try going for a beefier power supply, then it starts getting too expensive and i have to downgrade the other parts. and i also already decided i won't be going with the 7600 after all.

    not to mention, i'll be skipping the cd drives entirely. i already have two that i can scavenge from this computer. no sense in buying 2 new ones if these already work.

    now don't take that the wrong way. what i've come to realize is that every PC is as individual as the person that owns it. so some people expect different things out of their computers. your rig that you built there for me is quite nice, but its not really what i want...as i just outlined.

    not to mention, a lot of the prices you listed are after rebates. i don't plan on pursuing rebates.....at all. it's not worth the extra effort really...i don't want to wait for a month just to get a few measly bucks back. not worth my time.



    i think i'll try out that 550 watt you suggested Sam. it'll shave a good bit off the price, and provides some leeway for whichever card i choose.

    i did the math for two cards i found. the 1950 cost 119.99. the 8600 cost 109.99.

    i also found a motherboard that has all the same stats just crossfire compatible and it's six dollars less than my nvidia chipset. No matter which one i choose, it'll amount to almost exactly the same amount. 574.93 for an nvidia, 578.93 for an amd....

    this now makes the question become the following: IF I wanted to upgrade later by adding a second card, which pair works best? two 1950s? or two 8600s? two 8600s would be cheaper and they tend to have more stable drivers. and as Sam said, some of the ATI cards tended to overheat. and given that might happen, thats a chance i'd rather not take. its sounding like i'll more likely stick with the 8600 because its a better budget fit, and there are fewer risks involved in using it. it's also more widely recommended for games from what i've seen.
  6. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,281   +24

    That's alright, it was just a proposed build. It's your money and you can spend it the way you see fit. :)

    As for the second card, I wouldn't recommend going SLI/Crossfire. First of all, you'd need a powerful PSU to power both cards. Then, you'd need some good cooling so that your two cards (along with your system) aren't turned into smoking paperweights. A dual-card solution doesn't show double the performance of a single-card solution, although it does offer improvement. The real benefit of an SLI/Crossfire solution comes at very high resolutions, such as 1600x1200 and above. So unless you have a monitor that supports such a resolution and you are willing to spend more on the PSU and cooling, don't go SLI. Get a powerful single card instead and it'd make your day.

    As for the suggested PSU, Rosewill is hardly a good brand as far as reliability and product quality goes. You can see this from the over-inflated 50A on the +5V rail, which indicates that the total amps on that rail are 250W. Also, the +3.3V rail is rated at 30A. That leaves you with a total of 349W on both these rails and only 200W or so on the +12V rail. This means the actual amps available on the +12V rails combined is 16A, which is very inadequate. The Fortron FSP I suggested has 147.6W on the +3.3V and +5V rails combined. This leaves 352.4W on the +12V rails combined, which translates into about 29A total on the +12V rails, which is much better.

    I hope you don't take this in the wrong sense of the word. I'm just trying to know if you are aware of the costs involved in going SLI\Crossfire, that's all. Good luck and let us know if you want any more help. :)
  7. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    no worries mate. i take this with a slice of humble pie and modesty. i am certainly no expert. i can only go with what i know based off of tons and tons of research, reviews, and benchmarks. i was sort of skeptical of the rosewill brand myself. and to be perfectly honest, your explanation of the amperages and wattages looks like Chinese to me. all i can really glean from that is more amps = better. which makes sense. i just don't know how you came up with those answers.

    anyway. the only complaint i have with the one you suggested is that...well...i want it to be a bit beefier. certainly, 29Amps is much better. but i want to overcompensate. after all, it isn't a bad thing to have some extra power floating around. as long as the price it comes at isn't too terrible, and it's reliable, then i'll give it a shot. you guys know more about which brands are better than i do.

    the more help, the better personally. consider me at your knees begging for assistance. i want there to be as slim a chance to screw up as humanly possible. to the point where i buy the parts and make it a lego project essentially. the way i learn is by knowing what NOT to do. i make a note of what's a no-no as i go so next time i don't make the same mistake.

    as for sli, i know just as little about that as i do amperage and wattage calculations. i have a nice flat panel that could support a high resolution. as far as i know, the only thing holding me back with going higher is my Radeon 9200 PCI card. it only supports up to 1280x1024 if i'm not mistaken. so it's not like i CANT go sli. it sounds like for me, it's just not necessarily a good idea.


    so anyway...i've pretty much settled the video card issue. now it sounds like i just need a better PSU. the RAIDMAX was too expensive, and the Rosewill unreliable and underpowered. so i need a new power solution if you guys are still willing to help me find one.
  8. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,281   +24

  9. samjohnson

    samjohnson Newcomer, in training Posts: 320

    Alrighty, I like the PSU that rage put up there, but just to give you some options here is a cooler master. Its not as expensive so the more options the better right.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171016

    I did hear that Rosewill wasn't a really good brand, but I bought it anyway. :D
    It was only $60 so thats probably why I bought it and it had the good reviews and everything. But its working good for me right now. Hopefully if and when I put a second card in there it dosn't go boooom. :D
  10. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    Well Rage, I gotta hand it to you. that certainly is very nice....unfortunately when i add the hard drive i chose and the case, it's over budget with the shipping included. shipping makes it come to about 640....and I know exactly why. the processor. if it weren't for the processor you chose in that scheme, it'd be right on target. as much as i'd LOVE to have the windsor 2.8ghz, it's just too expensive. i'll probably end up keeping that same setup, but sticking to the brisbane. also, i found similar parts for a bit less. so i'll essentially have the same setup you made there, just slightly cheaper.

    i found some A-Data memory sticks, 2x 1gb sticks, same specifications for 5 bucks cheaper. i'll keep the motherboard you suggested there because its cheaper than the one i found by about 15 bucks. Sam, that's a nice power supply...but i feel like that OCZ he found has a bit more punch. thanks a lot though. and i'll have to flip a coin for the video card.

    ok. so far, my list is as follows:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128034
    GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $74.99

    Seagate Hard Drive 160 gig 7200 rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822136075 49.99

    Mem 2 1gig cards http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211066
    64.99

    CPU-amd 5000 2.6ghz dual core http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103780
    119.99

    Case-coolermaster case fans preinstalled http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
    49.99

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010
    600W power supply OCZ
    89.99

    video card = ?

    i left that last part blank because i'm torn still, and i'm also confused. Rage, you offered me a mobo that has an nvidia chipset, and yet you put the 1950 as the video card option. does that make any difference in terms of using one video card versus another? nvidia versus radeon? will they both work in that mobo?

    just checking....

    total comes to, without video card, 479.94 with a 30 dollar shipping fee included. with the 1950, it comes to 594.93. but i want to make sure the motherboard shenanigan is set straight before i make that final.

    i apologize for being such a pain in the **** guys.

    Sam, i hope your rosewill doesn't go boom. If it does, I want a video of the spectacular blaze of glory.
  11. samjohnson

    samjohnson Newcomer, in training Posts: 320

    Ya I hope it dosn't go boom either. But if it does I will make sure I get a video. ;)

    You were not a pain at all. You were asking a ton of questions to make sure that you got your build right. If I had asked that many I probably would have had a different setup with some more quality parts, but thats ok.
     
  12. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    well come on. there's always next time right?... a few years down the road when your computer might be getting too old and outdated, you'll find yourself in my position. and then the newegg search party will be reassembled, ready to find discount prices and quality parts.

    as for your post, sipsoh, maybe i should put up a gigantic red banner that says "don't count rebate prices because i won't be going for them"...i'm honestly getting kind of tired of saying it all the time...no rebates please? they arent worth my time. that 8800 is way out of my league anyhow, and either way, rebate or not, i'll still have to front the full amount before i get the checks back a month or two later for the rebate. and thats not worth my time. i'd rather save the money NOW not later. very nice setup except the processor. if it was a 2.6 intel, i'd be foaming at the mouth. as good as intel is, the ghz and overall performance of that cpu is below what i want for my rig....the thought is appreciated though.

    so, Rage. are my suspicions worth their salt? or does it make no difference?
  13. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,281   +24

    Nah, the onboard video\chipset and the add-on video card won't cause any compatibility issues at all. Go for it I say.
  14. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    excellence! i think i finally have a list that will remain out of 90% certainty...final.

    GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128034
    74.99

    Seagate Hard Drive 160 gig 7200 rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822136075
    49.99

    Mem 2 1gig cards http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211066
    60.99

    CPU-amd Brisbane 5000 2.6ghz dual core http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103780
    119.99

    Case-coolermaster case fans preinstalled http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
    49.99

    600W power supply OCZ
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010
    89.99

    video card =radeon x1950 256mb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102034
    114.99

    total without shipping= $560.93
    shipping fee= 26.43
    Total= $587.36
    I need $387.36

    frickin sweetness =D. it's finally ready! and the price of those a-data memory sticks went down by 4 bucks when i checked today =D!!

    now about that money....
  15. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    i know why....

    i wanted to buy a full 2gigs. 2x 1gig sticks. and the type that fits in the mobo i chose is 240pin ddr2 800. there is no such thing listed on newegg from corsair OR OCZ for less than 80 bucks.

    if you can find me 2 gigs of that type, for 65 bucks, feel free. because i couldn't.
  16. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,281   +24

    Great setup link. Hope it all goes great for you! :grinthumb
    A nice system that'll do very well for the purpose (and price). :)
  17. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    nevermind that then...
  18. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,281   +24

    That 650W PSU is a great choice! I guess I just didn't specify it coz of the rebate. It offers about 34A on the +12V rail vs the 29A offered by the OCZ one. It's also of good quality. Nice choice and your system is turning out to be a very nice one. I might be building a similar one for my dad sometime. He still uses his age-old P4 1.7GHz PC. ;)
  19. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    aw...that's a shame......

    oh well. no matter. disregard that new list then.
  20. samjohnson

    samjohnson Newcomer, in training Posts: 320

    Looks pretty sweet link.
  21. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    indeed it does. it feels great to have a list of stuff that will in fact work when i put it together.

    naturally, i'm still on the lookout for price drops, or better parts that fit the budget. the only thing i can ask you guys to do is, if you happen to be surfing newegg and you find a nice part on the cheap, post it. =D.

    i'll be more than happy to take a look. also, i kinda want to learn how the wattages, and amperages work. how do you calculate those? and what's the average amount of either one that you ought to look for in a power supply for a given gaming computer? you know...all the essentials. i'm getting tired of looking at a power supply wattage, thinking it's high and therefore good, and getting screwed by the numbers.
  22. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,281   +24

    Well, for starters, Power equals Volts * Amps. To get the total number of amps on the +12V rails in a system with multiple +12V rails, first calculate the power on the +3.3V and +5V rails. Then subtract this number from the total wattage to get the wattage on the +12V rails. Then divide this wattage by 12 to get the total number of amps on the +12V rail. This assumes all the rails are fully loaded but that shouldn't be much of an issue, since the numbers you'll get will be enough to decide which PSU to buy and which not to. Most video card manufacturers usually tell you the power requirements for their cards so no problems there.
  23. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    aha! i got it now. i had to take a look at the specs of a random power supply, but i found the numbers to work with and i think i've got the idea.

    the number i got for
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052
    this power supply was about 22 amps or so.

    it only has 1 12v rail though. but i calculated it anyway. hope that doesn't make a big difference. for the 3.3v it gets 22amps, and the 5v it gets 32amps. total of that comes to 232.6 watts. subtract from 500, gives 267.4. divide by 12, and that gives 22.2833333333333333333333 amps.

    did i do it right?
  24. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,281   +24

    Yes that's right. But that PSU has two +12V rails. You can see that from the Output entry under Specifications, which gives the amperage on all the rails. Anyways, you've done it right. See how easy it is? :)
  25. link590o

    link590o Topic Starter

    now...just so i'm clear on this. the number i got is the total amperage offered by both 12v rails? or is that 22amps on EACH 12v rail? i'm pretty sure its the former rather than the latter because 44 amps doesn't quite make much sense anyway.

    i'm just trying to dispel any such notions here and now so i don't make mistakes.

    anyway. so what would the most typical/best amperage be for any given gaming system?
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