Need to build comp on 600 dollar budget

Ok, I wouldn't go with a 8500. The 7600GT has a core clock anywhere from 560 to 590. The 8500 is anywhere from 450 to 500. So I would say that the 7600GT is a tad better. So if you wanted something that out performs the 7600GT then I would go for the 8600GTS.
Here is a Abit motherboard for $110. It supports SLI and is not open box.
This motherboard supports everything you have so no need to change memory or anything like that.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127236

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131096
This is a ASUS board. It is only $90 so its cheaper then the Abit and its still supports SLI. Nothing needs to be changed in your setup as this board also supports everything you have.

the 8600 will sadly have to take the back seat for now. either i stick with the card i chose, or i look for one thats not nvidia brand. i'm not much of an expert on the Radeon cards. that 2900hd certainly looks tempting but thats out of my league at this point.

the cards i would have chosen based off my budget would have been in the following order:

radeon 2900 hd
geforce 8800 512mb
geforce 8600 512
radeon 2600 pro
geforce 7600
radeon 1950.

we can scratch the top three. the bottom three appear to be my choices. so which one is the best?

If you wanna save money I would go with the 7600GT. If you went for the x1950PRO then I would just go get a 8606GTS, the 8600GTS is pretty much the same price as the 1950PRO and the 8600GTS has a better core clock. Its pretty much 100 mhz faster. And the memory clock is about 700 mhz faster. So for the price I would get a 8600GTS.

***EDIT**** I accidentally put 7600GTS there at the end, but it ment to be 8600GTS. So its all good now just so you know.

The list looks pretty good

I agree with Mailpup, the Radeon X1950 would be best

Because these are DX10, only 1-2 games today has DX10 settings and Windows Vista is required to use DX10 in its best, so it's basically a waste of money :haha:

It may be a waste of money but you can still use it for things that don't run DX10. (correct me if I am wrong). The x1950PRO and the 8600GTS both are around the same price range. But the 8600GTS has some better specs, SO even though the 8600GTS has the DX10 I still think it would be a better buy becuase of the better specs.

hm....it's a rather tough decision. i value performance and quality immensely. but at the same time, i'm very avidly trying to avoid pricey merchandise...totally understandable no matter how you slice it. if i go with the 8600gts, i will DEFINITELY need to raise a minimum of 425 dollars. i have an idea or two of how to get said money. it's all about the method in the madness.

my first option is to wait a few more months until next semester when i can get additional funds. i also plan on selling some merchandise and that will raise the rest of what i need.

the second is i borrow from a friend of mine and offer to pay back the money.

the latter is sounding very very tempting given that i can work out any kinks in terms of the conditions of payment.

that is ALL assuming that i go with the 8600gts as my solution for the graphics. if i go with the 7600, i won't need to raise anywhere near that much, and it'd be much more easily doable through waiting.

BUT, as i said, i value performance, and i have waited long enough for this. sounds like right now, the 8600 is my choice.

my most immediate concern in terms of the price now falls to the power supply. i double checked my case, and my case is a simple ATX. whereas the powersupply i chose is an ATX12V. i have NO idea if that makes a difference or not. either way, i think i was a little bit over zealous with the power supply i chose. given that having a lot isn't a bad thing. but at the price it comes at, i'm not so sure. i'm fairly confident that a 550 watt power supply might do the job, and it saves me a massive 50 bucks over the one i chose. i found a coolmax 550 watt power supply that fits ATX cases and it costs me 49.99. as compared to the 630 watt raidmax that cost 99.99.

is this a good idea? should i really go with the lower psu? i'm fairly confident that the parts i'm buying won't need 630 volts. but this is in my best interests in terms of price. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE correct me if i'm wrong. i might not get a second chance if this gets screwed up when i build it. i've found it very difficult to find a higher power supply wattage for a lower price. especially one that fits my case. either i change both the case and psu, or i change the psu.

*explodes* y'know what?...forget the dang video card for now. i'll be the judge on that little issue when i'm buying it. for now, screw it. what i'm really concerned about right now is the power supply and the case.

it's either that, or i stick with what i picked. which gets rather expensive and i'm trying to cut it back to 600 ish. it's at about 650 with my current layout + shipping.

i asked before and didn't really get a response. my case is ATX only, and the RAIDMAX power supply I chose says its ATX12v. i have no idea if that makes any difference. can someone enlighten me? because if it does make a difference, then my chose psu has to go and a new one has to be picked in its stead.

OR, i change out the box. but that could end up introducing a whole slew of issues. like whether or not my mobo will fit it.

can someone please help me figure out what to do with this and still stick with my budget?

If I where you I would go with the coolmax 550 watt power supply that you found. I have no idea if that is in the "good" list but its cheaper and it will work. I got a Rosewill PSU that isn't supposed to be all that good but hey it works great for me. Ok well I don't have any idea about the ATX12v thing, but it should still fit because its ATX the 12v is probably just the voltage I don't think it has anything to do with how it fits in your case, it just has to be an ATX PSU. So I think the one you have should fit, but I would go with the cheaper one.

WHOA! hey. harsh words mailpup. take it easy. i didn't mean it like that.

of COURSE i appreciate the info. i asked for the help. its just that i keep getting so many conflicting reports. some say one is better than the other, and then i hear the exact opposite. so i figured i'd better get what was more important straightened out first. and this doesn't just go for you. that goes for everyone that even considers replying. it's all appreciated. whether i act on it or not is my decision though. and that needs to be respected. that's all i ask.

as for the power supply, that gives a sigh of relief. i freaked out about that because every little detail matters with something like this. it all has to work swimmingly or it'll be an expensive paper weight.

as much as i hate giving up the extra wattage, i'm not sure i can afford it. the only thing that worries me is...the whole SLI thing. one graphics card alone requires a lot of power. a graphics card x2 would require a heck of a lot more. so i'm still torn. for my own interests, should i go with a more powerful supply for future expansion? or should i stick to the less expensive one? that's really the issue. of course cheaper is always better. but i'm looking further on down the road from now. if i decided to....for instance, upgrade my graphics cards, they'd require more power. 550 watts is a lot, but i'm fairly sure that at least 600 would be far more comforting...but that stupid price...UGH.....

now i know why computer companies are in business...they worry about this stuff FOR you...but its worth the learning experience and having a computer thats all my own.

if you guys think 550 will be enough, we'll go with that. otherwise i'll grin and bear it and see if i can cough up the extra cash.

as for the graphics chip, according to that article the 1950 is better than the 8600. and i've heard multiple people suggesting it. it does offer startling performance in terms of frames. but what about visual quality? its not necessarily all about the frames. in terms of frames AND visual quality, which one is better? i'm talking about shadows, decals, specular, and texture quality, all of the special details that make the game more of an experience. you can have 1000 frames a second, but have terrible image quality.

i can predict what's going to be said, but i'd rather hear people's opinions on the matter first before i make any decisions. don't get me wrong, i'm just trying to get the final word so i don't regret my decisions later.

Ok for the power supply, I think for the 7600GT you have to have 25amps or so for SLI mode. (not sure if this is right, so anybody can correct me if I am wrong). And I know that my PSU which is a rosewill 550watt has I think 33 amps. Im not sure on this and it varies for every PSU so you would have to do some reaserch on that. It also varies for the amount of amps for the GC. Now also keep in mind that if you get a radeon card they have a crossfire which is like SLI but for the ATI cards. But you would have to get a crossfire ready motherboard. Now, I would stay away from ATI just cuse I like Nvidia but that is my preference. I have heard that ATI tends to overheat but so does some of the higher end Nvidia cards. And if you get a higher end card instead of a 7600GT or something like that you won't necessarily need to put it in crossfire or SLI mode. Good luck on all the decision making. Boy Im I glad that I didn't ask this many questions when building my comp couple months ago. It can get real frustrating at times... but totaly worth it.

**EDIT** Ya so I would go for the 550watt PSU if it has enough amps and everything to run in SLI or crossfire.

Just in case you might be interested this is my PSU. The first one I got was DOA but that can happen to anything.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182017

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail - $194.99
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $99.99
OCZ Platinum Revision 2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - $51.99 after $40 rebate
EVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail - $74.99 after $15 rebate
SAMSUNG Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM - $31.99
Seagate
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250310AS 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $64.99
FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX500-PN ATX2.2 500W Power Supply 110-120/ 220-240V UL, CSA, VDE, NEMKO, TUV, CE, CB, FCC - Retail - $54.99 after $5 rebate

Grand Total = $573.93. A great PC that'll do perfectly for you. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

hm....yeah its quite nice. but i feel like 500W isn't enough for the kind of rig i want. and considering i want to upgrade later, 500 is a little scanty. and as soon as i try going for a beefier power supply, then it starts getting too expensive and i have to downgrade the other parts. and i also already decided i won't be going with the 7600 after all.

not to mention, i'll be skipping the cd drives entirely. i already have two that i can scavenge from this computer. no sense in buying 2 new ones if these already work.

now don't take that the wrong way. what i've come to realize is that every PC is as individual as the person that owns it. so some people expect different things out of their computers. your rig that you built there for me is quite nice, but its not really what i want...as i just outlined.

not to mention, a lot of the prices you listed are after rebates. i don't plan on pursuing rebates.....at all. it's not worth the extra effort really...i don't want to wait for a month just to get a few measly bucks back. not worth my time.



i think i'll try out that 550 watt you suggested Sam. it'll shave a good bit off the price, and provides some leeway for whichever card i choose.

i did the math for two cards i found. the 1950 cost 119.99. the 8600 cost 109.99.

i also found a motherboard that has all the same stats just crossfire compatible and it's six dollars less than my nvidia chipset. No matter which one i choose, it'll amount to almost exactly the same amount. 574.93 for an nvidia, 578.93 for an amd....

this now makes the question become the following: IF I wanted to upgrade later by adding a second card, which pair works best? two 1950s? or two 8600s? two 8600s would be cheaper and they tend to have more stable drivers. and as Sam said, some of the ATI cards tended to overheat. and given that might happen, thats a chance i'd rather not take. its sounding like i'll more likely stick with the 8600 because its a better budget fit, and there are fewer risks involved in using it. it's also more widely recommended for games from what i've seen.

That's alright, it was just a proposed build. It's your money and you can spend it the way you see fit.

As for the second card, I wouldn't recommend going SLI/Crossfire. First of all, you'd need a powerful PSU to power both cards. Then, you'd need some good cooling so that your two cards (along with your system) aren't turned into smoking paperweights. A dual-card solution doesn't show double the performance of a single-card solution, although it does offer improvement. The real benefit of an SLI/Crossfire solution comes at very high resolutions, such as 1600x1200 and above. So unless you have a monitor that supports such a resolution and you are willing to spend more on the PSU and cooling, don't go SLI. Get a powerful single card instead and it'd make your day.

As for the suggested PSU, Rosewill is hardly a good brand as far as reliability and product quality goes. You can see this from the over-inflated 50A on the +5V rail, which indicates that the total amps on that rail are 250W. Also, the +3.3V rail is rated at 30A. That leaves you with a total of 349W on both these rails and only 200W or so on the +12V rail. This means the actual amps available on the +12V rails combined is 16A, which is very inadequate. The Fortron FSP I suggested has 147.6W on the +3.3V and +5V rails combined. This leaves 352.4W on the +12V rails combined, which translates into about 29A total on the +12V rails, which is much better.

I hope you don't take this in the wrong sense of the word. I'm just trying to know if you are aware of the costs involved in going SLI\Crossfire, that's all. Good luck and let us know if you want any more help.

no worries mate. i take this with a slice of humble pie and modesty. i am certainly no expert. i can only go with what i know based off of tons and tons of research, reviews, and benchmarks. i was sort of skeptical of the rosewill brand myself. and to be perfectly honest, your explanation of the amperages and wattages looks like Chinese to me. all i can really glean from that is more amps = better. which makes sense. i just don't know how you came up with those answers.

anyway. the only complaint i have with the one you suggested is that...well...i want it to be a bit beefier. certainly, 29Amps is much better. but i want to overcompensate. after all, it isn't a bad thing to have some extra power floating around. as long as the price it comes at isn't too terrible, and it's reliable, then i'll give it a shot. you guys know more about which brands are better than i do.

the more help, the better personally. consider me at your knees begging for assistance. i want there to be as slim a chance to screw up as humanly possible. to the point where i buy the parts and make it a lego project essentially. the way i learn is by knowing what NOT to do. i make a note of what's a no-no as i go so next time i don't make the same mistake.

as for sli, i know just as little about that as i do amperage and wattage calculations. i have a nice flat panel that could support a high resolution. as far as i know, the only thing holding me back with going higher is my Radeon 9200 PCI card. it only supports up to 1280x1024 if i'm not mistaken. so it's not like i CANT go sli. it sounds like for me, it's just not necessarily a good idea.


so anyway...i've pretty much settled the video card issue. now it sounds like i just need a better PSU. the RAIDMAX was too expensive, and the Rosewill unreliable and underpowered. so i need a new power solution if you guys are still willing to help me find one.

Another proposed build: (I never stop do I? )
AMD Athlon 64 FX-62 Windsor 2.8GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - OEM - $159.99
GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $74.99
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - $69.99
OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS ATX12V / EPS12V 600W Power Supply 100 - 240 V CB, CE, CSA, UL, FCC - Retail - $89.99
SAPPHIRE 100199L Radeon X1950GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail - $114.99

Much better, don't you think?

Alrighty, I like the PSU that rage put up there, but just to give you some options here is a cooler master. Its not as expensive so the more options the better right.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171016

I did hear that Rosewill wasn't a really good brand, but I bought it anyway.
It was only $60 so thats probably why I bought it and it had the good reviews and everything. But its working good for me right now. Hopefully if and when I put a second card in there it dosn't go boooom.

Well Rage, I gotta hand it to you. that certainly is very nice....unfortunately when i add the hard drive i chose and the case, it's over budget with the shipping included. shipping makes it come to about 640....and I know exactly why. the processor. if it weren't for the processor you chose in that scheme, it'd be right on target. as much as i'd LOVE to have the windsor 2.8ghz, it's just too expensive. i'll probably end up keeping that same setup, but sticking to the brisbane. also, i found similar parts for a bit less. so i'll essentially have the same setup you made there, just slightly cheaper.

i found some A-Data memory sticks, 2x 1gb sticks, same specifications for 5 bucks cheaper. i'll keep the motherboard you suggested there because its cheaper than the one i found by about 15 bucks. Sam, that's a nice power supply...but i feel like that OCZ he found has a bit more punch. thanks a lot though. and i'll have to flip a coin for the video card.

ok. so far, my list is as follows:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128034
GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $74.99

Seagate Hard Drive 160 gig 7200 rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822136075 49.99

Mem 2 1gig cards http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211066
64.99

CPU-amd 5000 2.6ghz dual core http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103780
119.99

Case-coolermaster case fans preinstalled http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
49.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010
600W power supply OCZ
89.99

video card = ?

i left that last part blank because i'm torn still, and i'm also confused. Rage, you offered me a mobo that has an nvidia chipset, and yet you put the 1950 as the video card option. does that make any difference in terms of using one video card versus another? nvidia versus radeon? will they both work in that mobo?

just checking....

total comes to, without video card, 479.94 with a 30 dollar shipping fee included. with the 1950, it comes to 594.93. but i want to make sure the motherboard shenanigan is set straight before i make that final.

i apologize for being such a pain in the **** guys.

Sam, i hope your rosewill doesn't go boom. If it does, I want a video of the spectacular blaze of glory.