Neil Young comes back to Spotify, two years after Joe Rogan "vaccine disinformation" row

[toooooot]

Hmmm... If the rest of the world was like USA, you can bet those COVID numbers are most definitely skewed. The hospitals falsified reports so they could get paid more. If you have COVID present but died from obviously not COVID, they reported it as a COVID death.

Why can people not wake up to the obviously corruption is beyond belief. Your head will forever be stuck in the sand.

I really liked how moderately and cool headed some countries in Europe handled it, Sweden for example.
Hopefully, we learned the lesson or two from this pandemic.

 

[Puiu]

If you think vaccines aren't all about the money you're the one living in a cave. Maybe taper down your Netflix binge watching and listen to more than 1 point of view on the matter?

It's time you left the anti-vaxxer cave and start living in the real world. You have the numbers, but anti-vaxxers would make you believe that billions died after tens of billions of vaccines were administered.

I don't think you understand just how many have received at least one jab, we are talking about over 70% of the global population. over 70%! you have to put things into perspective dude. this is what I hate about anti-vaxxers, they just don't understand the scale of this whole thing at all.

My honest opinion? Just go do the vaccine, stop being more scared than the vast majority of the planet.

the same goes for: @CBTex @VaRmeNsI

 

[TheBigFatClown]

The true believers are out in force. Ostensibly intelligent people trying desperately to suppose that "vaccine side effects" were 10K times worse than reported and the benefits 10K times less.

Why? For many it's because their cult leader effed up the Covid response so badly that he aka they are forced to insist that it really wasn't so lethal! Ergo, masks were uncalled for; and vaccines just a money-grab. Which has made routine the knee-jerk vilification of folks who were actually saving lives; as well as of every source reporting the enormous lists of dead.

The previously undreamt-of political events and discourse since Nov 2020 has convinced me that there is nothing the alt-right can't make themselves believe. Nothing. Gigantic conspiracies continually hatch full-fledged and unchallenged in their brains, eating what's left after the party lobotomy. Conspiracies in which everyone is paid off forever, none are ever found or come forward, no evidence exists, nothing makes common sense, and all allegations turn out to be lies. Doesn't matter! Next!

Another group - now at a peak of favor with the former - are the useful *****s who pride themselves on never believing the most credible evidence, from real people with real credentials signing real legal documents, but instead on being fearless iconoclasts who see behind the mainstream curtain... to the now endemic basement blogger factory fictions.

Who led this nation-wide destruction of truth, and denial of science and all our traditional cornerstones? Who lied so prominently, pathologically, and for so long that - as he planned - even the fact-checkers finally broke down? No secret. And what adversary state has entire departments training parallel streams of disinformation into those same flames? Also not a secret.

Vote ! Wisely ! In what may be your last chance.

Talk about being lobotomized...yikes...."He's dead Jim!"...may he rest in peace.

 

[TheBigFatClown]

It's time you left the anti-vaxxer cave and start living in the real world. You have the numbers, but anti-vaxxers would make you believe that billions died after tens of billions of vaccines were administered.

I don't think you understand just how many have received at least one jab, we are talking about over 70% of the global population. over 70%! you have to put things into perspective dude. this is what I hate about anti-vaxxers, they just don't understand the scale of this whole thing at all.

My honest opinion? Just go do the vaccine, stop being more scared than the vast majority of the planet.

the same goes for: @CBTex @VaRmeNsI

How many of that 70% we're children who didn't even need the shot? Oh, we understand the scale of it...billions....and billions...and billions. The pay scale is understood.

 

[Puiu]

How many of that 70% we're children who didn't even need the shot? Oh, we understand the scale of it...billions....and billions...and billions. The pay scale is understood.

No you clearly don't understand. And yes, I'm in favour of kids getting vaccines too, it's an obvious thing to do. Kids get vaccines for many things and we've seen what can happen when stupid parents refuse to do these vaccines.

Vaccines are about the entire society you live in and it's why very high vaccination rates are required. I vaccinated not because I feared the virus as a healthy 35yo adult, I did it because I have many in my family that could potentially die from it, including my 70yo parents. I did it because I meet a lot of good people, many of whom I can't possibly know if they are vulnerable or not to Covid.

Stop thinking about just "you" for a freaking day in your life and look around you. People right now are protecting you and you just don't care. You think they are stupid and insult them for doing the right thing.

 

[TheBigFatClown]

No you clearly don't understand. And yes, I'm in favour of kids getting vaccines too, it's an obvious thing to do. Kids get vaccines for many things and we've seen what can happen when stupid parents refuse to do these vaccines.

Vaccines are about the entire society you live in and it's why very high vaccination rates are required. I vaccinated not because I feared the virus as a healthy 35yo adult, I did it because I have many in my family that could potentially die from it, including my 70yo parents. I did it because I meet a lot of good people, many of whom I can't possibly know if they are vulnerable or not to Covid.

Stop thinking about just "you" for a freaking day in your life and look around you. People right now are protecting you and you just don't care. You think they are stupid and insult them for doing the right thing.

"Won't you think of the children????" Boo-hoo-hoo.
Why didn't you save yourself some timing and just scream "Grandma Killer!!!!"

You were trying to guilt me into getting jabbed every 6 months for the rest of my life, right? Let's see how that works out for ya. Yep, still no band-aid on my arm, sorry.

 

[Puiu]

"Won't you think of the children????" Boo-hoo-hoo.
Why didn't you save yourself some timing and just scream "Grandma Killer!!!!"

You were trying to guilt me into getting jabbed every 6 months for the rest of my life, right? Let's see how that works out for ya. Yep, still no band-aid on my arm, sorry.

I don't need to guilt trip you in doing anything, you are a simple anti-vaxxer. I just need to tell you that you are morally and objectively wrong, in both your actions and how you think.

I've yet to see an anti-vaxxer tell me any excuse besides: I'm afraid and I have nobody I care about besides myself.

For example, you saying: "How many of that 70% we're children who didn't even need the shot?" is factually wrong. Like I said before, children get vaccines all the time, it is a normal thing in our society and it's an important step towards achieving herd immunity at above 90% vaccination rate for highly contagious illnesses (besides covid, measles is a good example).

 

[Endymio]

Sigh. More died from COVID. Including tons of people who refused to take the vaccine.

Sigh. You're starting from a false premise, and so reaching a false conclusion. The crux of the argument was that the young suffered far less risk from Covid, and yet far more risk (primarily from myocarditis) from the vaccine.

The conclusion should have been self-evident: don't require the young to take the vaccine.

For many it's because their cult leader effed up the Covid response so badly

And yet, per-day Covid cases counts under Biden a year after he took office were five times higher than the worst-ever under Trump. And that's despite having years to prepare and access to three separate vaccines.

This "effed up response" might fool the 70-IQ mouth-breathers, but the fact remains that Trump was the first world leader to ban travel from Covid-inflected China ... an act that every member of the opposition party called at the time "unwarranted", "xenophobic", and "scaring people without reason". When Trump stated he'd get a vaccine approved by the FDA in under a year -- rather than their usual 5+ year process -- the media scoffed and branded him a liar (he did it in fact in 9 months, through forcing upon the FDA a reworking of the entire 3-stage approval process)

It's amusing to see still today people who believed the lie that there was ANY response that could have prevented every single person in the world from contracting Covid -- and most people (including the triple-vaxxed) from catching it multiple times. I argued that point on this very board in 2020, and time has proven me right. Mankind has *never* eradicated a highly-infectious respiratory virus before, and Covid wasn't going to be the first.

 

[Endymio]

I just need to tell you that you are morally and objectively wrong.

Many children have died, due to your scientifically-illiterate beliefs on this subject. Your moral compass needs adjustment.

For example, you saying: "How many of that 70% we're children who didn't even need the shot?" is factually wrong. Like I said before, children get vaccines all the time.

Most vaccines don't increase myocarditis risk among the young. And most vaccines actually so generate herd immunity and prevent the spread of the disease. The Covid vaccine is excellent at reducing mortality among older population cohorts, but it is abysmal at reducing the spread of the disease. It may in fact, by reducing symptoms, actually increase the rate of spread of Covid.

Now please, stop with the "herd immunity" disinformation. All the way back in 2022, the total number of Covid cases was higher among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. The US is still generating some 20 thousand cases of Covid each and every day, tens of millions of people in this country alone have contracted the disease multiple times, and both the CDC and the WHO have confirmed it is -- and will always be -- endemic among the world population. There never will be "herd immunity" to Covid, no matter how many times you vaccinate yourself.

 

[Puiu]

Many children have died, due to your scientifically-illiterate beliefs on this subject. Your moral compass needs adjustment.


Most vaccines don't increase myocarditis risk among the young. And most vaccines actually so generate herd immunity and prevent the spread of the disease. The Covid vaccine is excellent at reducing mortality among older population cohorts, but it is abysmal at reducing the spread of the disease. It may in fact, by reducing symptoms, actually increase the rate of spread of Covid.

Now please, stop with the "herd immunity" disinformation. All the way back in 2022, the total number of Covid cases was higher among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. The US is still generating some 20 thousand cases of Covid each and every day, tens of millions of people in this country alone have contracted the disease multiple times, and both the CDC and the WHO have confirmed it is -- and will always be -- endemic among the world population. There never will be "herd immunity" to Covid, no matter how many times you vaccinate yourself.

Reducing the spread of the virus is something we know of and very well studied right now (if you want source links just ask, there are studies starting with 2021 about this). While a vaccine doesn't eliminate the risk of spread, it is a fact that it reduces it significantly. It also, as you said, reduce the chances of severe symptoms.

"stop with the "herd immunity" disinformation." - nothing of what you wrote changes the effects of herd immunity and there is ZERO disinformation. Just like other viruses of this type, that can't be completely prevented/eradicated (the flu is a good example), herd immunity still works in preventing the worst case disasters. it's why so many take the flu shot every year.

I don't get it. Why do people assume that vaccines need to be 100% effective? Nobody assumed that before covid, but so many anti-vaxxers are now screaming "it doesn't work perfectly! it's a scam! I read on a blog written by another anti-vaxxer so it must be true!".

Are you that scared of a vaccine that billions have already taken multiple times?

I don't care if you personally don't want to take it, but going on tirades online, spreading anti-vaxx conspiracy theories and other crap... it's just criminal in my opinion. You and others are actively trying to kill ppl. It defies common sense.

 

[Endymio]

Reducing the spread of the virus is something we know of and very well studied right now (if you want source links just ask, there are studies starting with 2021 about this). While a vaccine doesn't eliminate the risk of spread, it is a fact that it reduces it significantly.

Why keep denying the science?

".... This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

"... this study unfortunately also highlights that the vaccine effect on reducing transmission is minimal in the context of delta variant circulation. These findings have immediate public health implications."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

Johns Hopkins:
"THE NEW DATA SAYS THAT A FULLY VACCINATED PERSON WHO EXPERIENCES A BREAKTHROUGH INFECTION CAN SPREAD THE VIRUS JUST AS MUCH AS AN UNVACCINATED PERSON..."

New Data on COVID-19 Transmission by Vaccinated Individuals | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

While new data show that vaccinated people can carry high viral loads of SARS-CoV-2, vaccines still prevent the worst outcomes from COVID-19.

publichealth.jhu.edu

All the studies which claim otherwise are early studes, most from the 2021 period.

it's just criminal in my opinion. You and others are actively trying to kill ppl. It defies common sense.

You're attempting to shame young people into taking a vaccine that is more likely to harm, even kill them, than it is to help them. That's criminal. Covid is, for the very young, significantly less dangerous than the common flu, yet the vaccine itself is otherwise:

"...According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), among males aged 12 to 17, about 22 to 36 per 100,000 experienced myocarditis within 21 days after receiving a second vaccine dose...."

Yale study reveals insights into post-vaccine heart inflammation cases

In a new study, Yale scientists have identified the immune signature of rare cases of myocarditis among those vaccinated against COVID-19 with mRNA vaccines.

news.yale.edu

 

[Puiu]

Why keep denying the science?

".... This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

"... this study unfortunately also highlights that the vaccine effect on reducing transmission is minimal in the context of delta variant circulation. These findings have immediate public health implications."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

Johns Hopkins:
"THE NEW DATA SAYS THAT A FULLY VACCINATED PERSON WHO EXPERIENCES A BREAKTHROUGH INFECTION CAN SPREAD THE VIRUS JUST AS MUCH AS AN UNVACCINATED PERSON..."

New Data on COVID-19 Transmission by Vaccinated Individuals | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

While new data show that vaccinated people can carry high viral loads of SARS-CoV-2, vaccines still prevent the worst outcomes from COVID-19.

publichealth.jhu.edu

All the studies which claim otherwise are early studes, most from the 2021 period.


You're attempting to shame young people into taking a vaccine that is more likely to harm, even kill them, than it is to help them. That's criminal. Covid is, for the very young, significantly less dangerous than the common flu, yet the vaccine itself is otherwise:

"...According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), among males aged 12 to 17, about 22 to 36 per 100,000 experienced myocarditis within 21 days after receiving a second vaccine dose...."

Yale study reveals insights into post-vaccine heart inflammation cases

In a new study, Yale scientists have identified the immune signature of rare cases of myocarditis among those vaccinated against COVID-19 with mRNA vaccines.

news.yale.edu

I won't go through every single one because it isn't necessary. I can see that you didn't actually open the studies and read them.

For example, from the first link, it reads as following about their sources of information:

1. A recent investigation by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention of an outbreak of COVID-19 in a prison in Texas showed the equal presence of infectious virus in the nasopharynx of vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.

2.Similarly, researchers in California observed no major differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in terms of SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in the nasopharynx, even in those with proven asymptomatic infection.

What you failed to disclose/understand are the following:
1. The first study was done in a very closed environment, a prison.

Here's the report summary of this particular case:
"What is already known about this topic?

Incarcerated populations have experienced disproportionately higher rates of COVID-19–related illness and death.

What is added by this report?

During a COVID-19 outbreak involving the Delta variant in a highly vaccinated incarcerated population, transmission rates were high, even among vaccinated persons. Although attack rates, hospitalizations, and deaths were higher among unvaccinated than among vaccinated persons, duration of positive serial test results was similar for both groups. Infectious virus was cultured from vaccinated and unvaccinated infected persons."

Let me put it in bold: "attack rates, hospitalizations, and deaths were higher among unvaccinated"

2. The second study also done mainly for the delta variant of the virus in 2021 on a small sample pool with only 25% being fully vaccinated (the study acknowledges this).

This is a quote from the study:
" Interestingly, the viral loads decreased more rapidly in vaccinated than unvaccinated individuals in Singapore, suggesting that vaccinated individuals may remain infectious for shorter periods of time. "

This means that they only looked at the data for virus concentrations of the samples provided by their sources. They quote other studies, the Singapore one measured the period of time somebody is infectious.

Seriously, why do anti-vaxxer post things without reading them? Thanks for proving I was right with scientific evidence.

 

[KnightSayNI]

Did you not get the part that I was a first responder during the COVID? How many opinions do you think I was subjected to? Dozens? Maybe hundreds? You want to be a danger to yourself, have at it. No one cares except that you could have taken up valuable medical resources from people who were trying to do the right thing while you're busy being a conspiracy theorist. But to imply that it was nothing more than "all about the money" while 7 million people died worldwide shows some serious - even criminal - lack of social responsibility.

Now now Darth Vader. Let's not go down that absolutist path.

 

[Endymio]

1. The first study was done in a very closed environment, a prison.

Stop trying to evade the facts. One study was done in a US prison -- an ideal closed environment for reducing confounding facts. Another study was done among ordinary households in the United Kingdom. A third study was done in Israel, among healthcare workers. All reached the same conclusion: the vaccine does not reduce the spread of the disease.

Let me put it in bold:

Why bold what I already pointed out myself, as if you're imparting great truths? Show some intellectual honesty. No one is denying that the vaccine reduces symptom severity, particularly among the elderly. The fact remains that among the young the vaccine does more harm than good. You're killing children to validate your anti-scientific beliefs. Shame on you, shame.

 

[TheBigFatClown]

I won't go through every single one because it isn't necessary. I can see that you didn't actually open the studies and read them.

For example, from the first link, it reads as following about their sources of information:

1. A recent investigation by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention of an outbreak of COVID-19 in a prison in Texas showed the equal presence of infectious virus in the nasopharynx of vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.

2.Similarly, researchers in California observed no major differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in terms of SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in the nasopharynx, even in those with proven asymptomatic infection.

What you failed to disclose/understand are the following:
1. The first study was done in a very closed environment, a prison.

Here's the report summary of this particular case:
"What is already known about this topic?

Incarcerated populations have experienced disproportionately higher rates of COVID-19–related illness and death.

What is added by this report?

During a COVID-19 outbreak involving the Delta variant in a highly vaccinated incarcerated population, transmission rates were high, even among vaccinated persons. Although attack rates, hospitalizations, and deaths were higher among unvaccinated than among vaccinated persons, duration of positive serial test results was similar for both groups. Infectious virus was cultured from vaccinated and unvaccinated infected persons."

Let me put it in bold: "attack rates, hospitalizations, and deaths were higher among unvaccinated"

2. The second study also done mainly for the delta variant of the virus in 2021 on a small sample pool with only 25% being fully vaccinated (the study acknowledges this).

This is a quote from the study:
" Interestingly, the viral loads decreased more rapidly in vaccinated than unvaccinated individuals in Singapore, suggesting that vaccinated individuals may remain infectious for shorter periods of time. "

This means that they only looked at the data for virus concentrations of the samples provided by their sources. They quote other studies, the Singapore one measured the period of time somebody is infectious.

Seriously, why do anti-vaxxer post things without reading them? Thanks for proving I was right with scientific evidence.

I think you've used the phrase anti-vaxxer about 76 times in the 3 posts you've written. So, pat yourself on the back and rest assuredly, coming from an anti-vaxxer...you didn't change a thing. But keep using that as a shaming tactic if you think it works instead of just focusing on facts. A healthy immune system takes care of almost any virus so, once again, young people are the people who really don't need to live in perpetual fear by you conditioning their brains to rush out and get a jab every 6 months to the death. It's ridiculous to push that kind of fear on children.
The end game is population control through fear and force to the death. That's all.

Btw, I'm not really 100% anti-vaxxer, if you wanna get jabbed every 6 months, hell every 3 months, roll up your sleeves and knock yourself out. Because if the jab protects people from death, well then, all those people are protected. And the only ones left to die are the stupid, so the world will be a better place in 10 years if you just let us "choose" to die in peace.

Oh, 5h17 I can hear it already....."Grandma Killer!!!!" No, I'm perfectly okay with grandma getting jabbed every 90 days if she so chooses. More power to ya all.

 

[Arbie]

It's amusing to see still today people who believed the lie that there was ANY response that could have prevented every single person in the world from contracting Covid

Where did you see anyone saying that, Mr. Straw Man? Ever?

Oh... nobody did. Ever.

So all the more clever of you to drag this out from your Junior Varsity Debating Club arsenal. None could foresee such a ploy while you - though doubtless alone in this - would still think it crushing.

Amusing? Definitely.

 

[Arbie]

And yet, per-day Covid cases counts under Biden a year after he took office were five times higher than the worst-ever under Trump.

Because, ummm, it had spread for another year. And the spread is exponential. Google that term if you're not sure what it means.

 

[Arbie]

And that's despite having years to prepare and access to three separate vaccines.

Wow. So a year after Biden took office, he became responsible for not only what had been done in that year but also in the years before, under Trump.

"Access to three separate vaccines" is your typical meaningless flourish, which you find so hard to resist. It means nothing because nobody got more than one type.

And of course "access" means nothing either if the vaccine isn't accepted. Which was being undone by the alt-right and anti-vax politico-ignorant agitation. With the science-deniers discovering a grift and click-bait opportunity almost as good as the election-denial industry - on which they had sadly missed out but could now make common cause. Freedom Convoy!!

In plain terms, vaccine began to be administered in early 2021; and the rollout was constrained by availability, training, storage, acceptance etc. By mid-June, 51% of the US population had received at least one shot. But anti-vax and political propaganda was ramping up too. So by mid-December only 61% of the US population was fully vaccinated.

That achieved value - not access - affected the infection rate you're addressing. To imply otherwise is absurdly misleading. But still you gave it a try.

 

[Endymio]

Where did you see anyone saying that, Mr. Straw Man? Ever?

Oh... nobody did. Ever.

LOL, talk about denying reality. Yes, the entire media and many so-called medical experts said -- loudly and repeatedly -- that Covid could and would be eliminated, just as we'd eliminated outbreaks like Ebola, SARS, and others. That belief was widespread throughout most of 2020 -- especially when countries like New Zealand in mid-2020 declared Covid "eradicated" within their own borders. The media cheered, and waited for a forced vaccination program that would do the same throughout the world.

Even as late as the end of 2021, you can find many in the media and medicine arguing Covid would be eradicated worldwide:

British Medical Journal: https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroo...-so-than-for-polio-say-public-health-experts/

You can find multiple threads on this very forum from 2020, from the usual Left-wing posters supporting this point of view, and myself refuting it.

Because, ummm, [Covid] had spread for another year. And the spread is exponential. Google that term if you're not sure what it means.

It's clear you don't know what exponential growth means. The US per-day Covid case count in early Jan 2021 was 280,000/day. That figure declined monotonically until May 2021 when they hit a mere 16,000/day. They then began climbing again until by late Jan 2022 they were topping a whopping 900,000 per day.