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No desktop for Windows 10 devices smaller than 8-inches

By Scorpus
Jan 27, 2015
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  1. Any new devices released with Windows 10 on board will need to have a display at least eight inches in size to gain access to the desktop and desktop applications, Joe Belfiore confirmed through Twitter.

    Read more
     
  2. treeski

    treeski TS Evangelist Posts: 962   +205

    This still isn't fleshed out as well as it should be. I agree that using the desktop on a 7" device is not a great experience, but what if I connect it to a larger display? Will I gain the ability to use the desktop then, or no? I'm guessing no, which is a huge mistake.
     
  3. yRaz

    yRaz TS Evangelist Posts: 1,906   +954

    Why can't they let the user decide what is too small for a desktop?
     
    cliffordcooley and ikesmasher like this.
  4. ikesmasher

    ikesmasher TS Evangelist Posts: 2,561   +862

    Currently using a 7 inch windows tablet. Its not the greatest experience but definitely useable. Why is this even a thing? let me decide if I want to use the desktop. At least it says this will update to normal windows 10.
     
  5. stewi0001

    stewi0001 TS Evangelist Posts: 1,185   +530

    Maybe they're trying to be like Apple and telling people what to use.
     
  6. Skidmarksdeluxe

    Skidmarksdeluxe TS Evangelist Posts: 6,514   +2,060

    So why is this an issue?
     
  7. m4a4

    m4a4 TS Guru Posts: 752   +273

    Because they also have to think about the developers. Some apps shouldn't be run in a small window or expected to...
     
  8. Kibaruk

    Kibaruk TechSpot Paladin Posts: 2,518   +506

    It makes perfect sense, I've test driven a Dell Venue 8 Pro and the screen though readable it's really small to have a full fledged desktop, I can't imagine running it on a smaller screen (This doesn't mean I wouldn't like it though...).
     
  9. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    Which changes nothing. Users can still decide for their self , when apps don't function correctly. Besides what is different between desktop and tablet mode anyway? The apps still have to operate under the same resolution.
     
  10. Sniped_Ash

    Sniped_Ash TS Maniac Posts: 253   +108

    Yeah, when the desktop is on a small, high resolution screen, it's usually really hard to read without bumping up the scale to 125% or 150% which definitely breaks some apps.
     
  11. No desktop = Windows RT user experience.....guess it's not gone burger after all. Why is it that he can do it exactly But not others?
     
  12. yRaz

    yRaz TS Evangelist Posts: 1,906   +954

    We aren't talking about apps, we are talking about a desktop mode. It should be up to the user to decided how they prefer to use the device, not the developers.

    It would only have to be a check box in settings that could say "enabling desktop mode on devices smaller than 8 inches may cause some apps to not function properly"

    Hell, android phablets have something that resembles a desktop and works fine. Windows 10 is going to be competing with android and iOS and many of these features are in the operating systems that M$ is competing with. The Galaxy note has these features, why can't my 1520? Because M$ says that I can't? It is one thing to not have the features available because they aren't finished being developed, it is another altogether to say that you can't have them because we think you shouldn't. It is up to me to decide what I think I should have and if they are telling me they think I shouldn't have something I might go with something like the galaxy note. Android doesn't tell me what it thinks I should and shouldn't have.

    I've been using windows phone since the first month it came out and I've been willing to deal with it's shortcomings because I enjoyed the interface and the build quality of Nokia phones. One feature I've been looking forward to, and hoping for, is the desktop feature I see on my friends Galaxy Note. Now, after years of waiting for a desktop feature on windows phone, they tell me I can't have it because they don't think my phone is big enough.

    Windows 10 is going to have to offer a hell of a lot to keep me as a mobile customer if they remove this feature. Otherwise I'm just going to say enough and buy a Note 4 or whatever is out when my contract is up. And, to be honest, I don't do much on my phone, I make calls, I read emails and I use it as an ebook reader. I know that the desktop is a gimmick, but it's a gimmick that I want and one that is already offered by people competing directly with M$. Android can make calls and read emails just as well as any other operating system.

    Microsoft can say "we don't think you don't need this feature" and to that I say "I don't think I need your product"
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  13. Kibaruk

    Kibaruk TechSpot Paladin Posts: 2,518   +506

    Yeah because users have worked wonders so far... it would all crash into a big pile of "Microsoft sucks as usual and they've released an unreadable crap yata yata yata yata"... because... users!
     
  14. GeforcerFX

    GeforcerFX TS Evangelist Posts: 494   +126

    Well I kinda get the idea behind is since the desktop on my venue 8 pro is not ideal at all, it would allow windows tablet makers and phone makers to continue there push into much higher res screens while microsoft works on how to scale DPI across all the platforms. But having the option to deactivate would be nice as well, I would assume they have disabled it on some of the smaller devices for a performance reason as well, I mean who really needs to run photoshop on there 5" smartphone as cool as it would be to show off seems more like a novelty trick and not practical. Its good this got out this early though, if the tech community doesn't like it let them know and they may reverse course on it, they have done it a couple of times in recent memory Cough xbone cough. If anything it would be nice to have desktop and desktop apps disabled while on my phone at work for batt life and performance and then when I got home and threw it into a dock or connected wireless to a tv and KB&M let me access desktop to get some more work done, that would be a phone I would jump all over.
     
  15. m4a4

    m4a4 TS Guru Posts: 752   +273

    I already thought of that. I don't think MS will allow certain low resolutions for certain sized tablets, or it will also have a resolution restriction.

    If the restrictions were for PC's, then I'd complain. But this is for tablets, I'd expect them to try and control user experience for the better. Don't like it? Hack or buy something else. Complain and I'll ask you where you can easily get a "full" PC experience on a tablet elsewhere
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  16. m4a4

    m4a4 TS Guru Posts: 752   +273

    We're talking about both. Desktop mode has apps last I checked, and with this those devs don't have to worry as much. Besides, it's about controlling the user experience for the better (as they see it).

    But I swear that people are complaining for the sake of complaining. Don't want to be restricted from Desktop mode? Don't buy a sub 8" tablet! And if you do, either hack it, or don't complain. Complaining about not allowing a "full" desktop experience on a small tablet is just childish...
     
  17. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    Ohh, I don't care. I was just saying the developer point of view should be irrelevant. It is the user using the device. If they feel fine with using desktop mode on a 4" device, why shouldn't they be allowed? They should be given the opportunity, regardless of the glitches. What is wrong with presenting a message stating this device may be better viewed in Tablet mode?

    Me personally, give me a Tablet Mode I would want to use before you force it on me.
     
  18. yRaz

    yRaz TS Evangelist Posts: 1,906   +954

    Did you read anything I had to say or just see the first few sentences?
     
  19. m4a4

    m4a4 TS Guru Posts: 752   +273

    Well, they have to please both. Accounting for smaller than expected screens are a pain in the *** to develop for.

    But I do agree, if they had a switch for the more tech savvy people to switch it on or off on smaller tablets, then at least they can say they have it. But in all honesty, the more tech savvy people will probably find a way around it anyways, or just won't care (like me. I still see no appeal in tablets).
     
    cliffordcooley likes this.
  20. IAMTHESTIG

    IAMTHESTIG TS Evangelist Posts: 957   +273

    WHAT THE CRAP!? That is not for you (M$) to decide... The WHOLE point of the Windows OS for years has been to let the user decide how they want to use their system. If you want to prevent access to the desktop and desktop applications by DEFAULT, then go for it... but have an option in advanced settings somewhere where the user can choose to use the desktop mode and software, with a little prompt informing them it is not recommended and the experience will not be optimal and some functionality may simply not work.

    I was really looking forward to having full Windows OS on a phone. Sure it's a small screen and not always 'ideal' but when I have to get something done when I'm out and about and don't have my tablet with me, it would be a huge savior. Right now I remote desktop into my PC from my Android phone over the internet on occasion to take care of things. Yes 1920x1080 on a 5 inch screen isn't 'fun', but it works and I can still do what I need to do.

    Now if you thinking more of the display resolution rather than screen size, then I can understand this restriction. Even still, it should STILL be an advanced option for someone to choose to enable the desktop mode if they choose to.

    I urge you to rethink this strategy Microsoft.
     
    cliffordcooley likes this.
  21. First of all, you suffer from a severe case of "every user is an advanced user" and fail to comprehend your personal opinions are irrelevant when compared to the rest of the market. If you don't like this product, don't buy it. I doubt Microsoft will be concerned in any way with not having your single personal purchase.
    Predictable counter-argument: "B-but there are many more like me!" Yes, there are. But there are at least two orders of magnitude more people NOT like you than people like you. If in a case like this Microsoft displeases a thousand "power users" while pleasing a hundred thousand ordinary users, that's a good call. Ordinary users will not want a half-assed, unusable desktop only because a small fraction of their user base thinks there should be an option for everything regardless of usefulness or usability.
    Also, no, Windows apps are (kind of) resolution-independent and can be easily scaled, unlike the desktop environment. They do not suffer from the same constraints.
     
  22. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    And you are suffering from the delusion that no ones opinion is relevant. Yet here you are giving yours, why is that?
    Which makes this one Windows for all stupid. But that is a different topic. But doesn't this topic also mean they are backpedaling the concept of one Windows for all, by differentiating between screen sizes.
     
  23. Quite the opposite, I know perfectly well that in a global market the important opinions are that of the majority. Minorities get what they want when/if it doesn't compromise anything for the majorities. And that's what this case isn't, you (a minority) want an unusable desktop feature that, despite admitting yourself is just a useless gimmick, you want only because you think there should be an option for everything, even for bad non-functional features. That is a problem for the majority (they don't want a feature that clearly doesn't work well, and it would be a major point of criticism in reviews), so it's perfectly fine for Microsoft not to give you that.
    Again, you don't have to buy Windows. There's OS X, Chrome OS, Linux distros, BSD variants, iOS, Android and you can even take Linux or AOSP and make our own version of it customized the exact way you want. If Windows displeases you because there's no desktop feature on devices where the desktop feature is not usable, get something else.
    Of course not. The "one Windows" thing means it will share the same kernel, APIs and branding between all devices, that's it. It does not, by any means, indicate that all devices will have the exact same features and function the same way. They couldn't if they wanted to, because to make desktop available on all devices they would have to abandon ARM altogether and require x86 only, even on phones. Also, it's rather silly to think Microsoft's plan was to add desktops to all devices, specially phones and Xbox.
     
    spectrenad likes this.
  24. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,559   +2,900

    I figured as much. I was only returning a false diagnoses because you started the "I'm your doctor thing". Something I only do when coerced. Kinda like the statement you always hear, "but mom/dad he started it". There is only one here I would start crap with, and that is because we are passed the line of who started it. It has gotten to the point I think we pick at each other for the fun of it now. But seriously I don't know you, so at this point I don't care if you were joking or not. Hell you are posting from a guest account. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously or joking? I recommend you make an account, if you want your comments to pulling more weight.

    This off-topic discussion with a guest account is over.

    Yes I know Windows 10 will be a huge success and I am a minority Windows 7 lover. Ohh, those were the days! I can appreciate what MS is doing with this desktop/tablet mode, if tablet mode wasn't such an eye sore. I don't want to look at anything that resembles Windows Phones OS. Hidious!!!
    [​IMG]
    Until Tablet mode becomes something I want to look at, I'm really not gonna care what the regulations for use are. It is simple, I will not use a device (any device) that looks like that image. If MS can't give options for something different, they will never get my money again. Minority or not, I don't care. Actually that's not true, I do care and hate walking away from MS.

    Which brings me back to my original statement in the thread. Users should be given an option to select regardless. Where is my choice to make Windows what I want it to be, regardless of screen size? Without needing third party vender crap that should have been covered in the cost of buying Windows. You see, this 8" regulation is only a fraction of my complaint and not really a concern seeing as I loath the whole tablet mode UI cosmetics. Cosmetics which still exist in Windows 10 desktop mode.
     
  25. gunste24

    gunste24 TS Rookie Posts: 39

    After living with Windows 8.1 Start page for a month, I finally looked for and found the useful alternative which got me back to the familiar and more practical XP/7 type screens: For a Control Panel LIST of sites one might want: choose "Small icons in the little blue option in the upper right corner of the standard Win8 Control Panel screen. For a familiar START screen, import <classicshell.net>. It even has as sensible Start button to replace Microsoft's logo type one.
     

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