I think there is something in the idea of the doing away with the post counts altogether, and having some kind of ranking system, the application of which would be down to a pool of moderators.

i already sayed something like that in the discussion about postcount :

http://www.techspot.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4941

maybe it would be better that way
mods are people whos judgement is valuable and meaningful so someone with a good rating will be someone whos posts and advices would be less "dangerous" to follow hehe

It seems that many people are in agreement.

Julio?


Oh, and it would be nice to be able to demote members as well as promote them. How I would like it to work is if I think I have read a very good, well written and informative thread from a member, I have the power to reward that behaviour accordingly. It would also be nice to be able to punish childishness or lameness as well.

who died and made you darth?

hehe..........to me, even to hear the word punish is a negative..........some people can be coached..........while others............oh well, you know........we live in a world of misfits........best to extract what is good, obiwon.........and stay from the power of the dark side...............

Some people CAN'T be coached, I am afraid. We've had weirdos come and go here. However, don't think for a minute I am saying that you are one, which is what I think you are thinking.

Please don't think that my post is spurred on by your recent one, here, its not directly.

I am referring to what's been a growing problem on the forums for a long time now, perhaps even years. As one of the senior members, and a news poster for the front page, I think I am qualified to say that.

There have been prized awarded to members who posted frequently and well here. The criteria was number of posts AND quality of posts. I am merely suggesting the simple truth that the best system for the ranking would be to adopt this model.

No one died and made me Darth. I am only one trusted person amongst many, and you will find I am sure many other of the trusted members here agreeing with me.

In the last year or so, there have been problems here. I am not sure what they are caused by, but I think its time to experiment with some different models to try and combat this.

I completely agree with you Phant, getting rid of post counts would be the best way to go, at least until another method presents itself. Maybe this way people will realize that quantity is not a significant statistic here at TechSpot, and that quality is more admired. I am wondering whether it is a good thing to remove them altogether, maybe they could be left in the users profile at first to see if it has any effect? Don't get me wrong though, either decision you make will not affect my backing of you and other senior members' wise decisions - at least the decision about the removing of post counts is wise .

Summary - I completely agree with this idea to get rid of the post counts and am willing to give as much assistance to you, or any other mods/staff/admins, as you require. Let me also just say that this plan should work very well and has obviously been well thought out!

And finally, I would like to apologize once more for my recent immature acts in the thread you linked to as well as other NVIDIA and ATi related ones. Let me make it clear that my postings about useless posts have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with ATi nor NVIDIA as a certain member seemed to think.

$.02

You see, there's someone posting like you should. Giving some input, not just asking questions for yourself and / or using poor behaviour.

Its that sort of attitude that gets a member noticed, and then maybe one day they get to become a moderator - get the picture???

Its about acting maturely and sensibly, for the love of computing, and the desire to share information freely with one another. How often do you see me here asking things for myself? I give advice freely because I love to do so, and that's what anyone who posts here at all should be aiming for themselves, as an ultimate goal.

A hacker is not some bad *** black hat cracker type of person - that's a cracker. A hacker is someone who is interested in computer hardware, software, operating systems, networking and other interesting things like programming or security.

This type of person gives freely to a sensible, mature computer community because he wants to, and feels a duty to. This is the person you should all be trying to be like on these forums.

Some of you already have had some successes in this area, and - surprise surprise - its those members who go on to be respected here, and become moderators.

What I am saying overall is that I think its time that code of conduct becomes the main criteria of ranking here. Its long overdue in my opinion.

Well said everyone. I agree, and second this motion I also think getting rid of the post counts is a good idea. Kind of like Tim said, if anything they should just be removed period, even if there is no ranking system present. Besides, "ranks" is what makes people in our society feel lesser than the other person, therefore creating the problems we have in the world today. If everyone felt more equal the world, different countrys, and different races would get along with each other much better.

I also think that we need to consider the possibilty that if ranks are created depending on a persons "quality of posts" or "sportsmanship" (is that the correct word?), then we have to consider that whoever votes or decides on these ranks may have biased opinions, then creating another problem. I'm not saying anyone will, but we are human, and as with any voting system, someone is going to get mad no matter how it is done. This may or may not be a problem, but I just wanted to bring it to everyones attention so that you realize the possiblity.

Some good well intentioned ideas here, though I have a few comments to make.

1. Who ever said that post count had anything to do with competence, or quality of advice? No one, it is an assumption made by users who infer that anyone that has been around long enough to generate a large number of posts, must be quite knowledgable. Fair assumption I guess. I don't see any need to eliminate post count, users just need to modify their assumptions, thats all. I like to know how many posts some users have made, as it lets me know how much effort they make helping out. I don't make assumptions based on post count so its not a problem for me.

2. Its true that there a large number of pointless posts recently, probably due to lack of much interesting to say, and a desire to communicate, even if its pointless. We still have a better (more mature) forum than many other sites, and most users are very well mannered and helpful, so things aren't as bad as it sometimes appear. Quality fluctuates, that is normal.

3. The idea of having moderators award users for the quality of their posts is fine, though it does introduce a personal element (unlike post count), and is dependent on those doing the assessing to understand the value of information posted. Also, how can you assess a general discussion? Not easily.

4. Not everyone wants to be assessed. Many users make posts simply to help others, and to socialise a little with others that have similar interests.


Generally, people will come and go over time, and those that are appreciated more will tend to stay around longer than those who aren't. Things always sort themselves out given time.

One thing I did notice is that there are quite a number of people that read these formums regulary, and occassionally see fit to join when they are able to help out with particular issues. It's very good that so many helpful individuals exist and contribute when they are able to help.

A rating system is for most users not particularly useful, and will only be of interest to those that post regulary. Because of this, I do not feel it useful to force voting on others that do not wish to take part.

Maybe we could have an 'end-of-year' vote for 'best contributions', or something similar, and allow users to enter up to, say around five links, of their best posts, which others can then judge. Just a suggestion, so feel free to ignore, or modify.

Edit: I just missed acid to the draw, while composing this tomb. It strikes me that acid may be recommending some form of communism - where we are all equal, though some are more equal than others. Tough call.

A larger number of posts has always been a kind of goal here. If you think about it, there's only a handful of different units of measurement one can employ on a discussion board like this - but is post count the best.

You can't just rely on people moderating their own behaviour and still having the post counts, because that's just the status quo, and nothing better will happen. There's a problem I feel with the quality of posts here often and something radical does not to be done, I feel.

Post counts could still be accessible on the profile of the user, like the computer specs.

Ranking names could remain, but be given on perceived merit. And if I am qualified to control the posts here - as I am as a moderator here I could delete anything I liked as much as I want - then I am a qualified entity for assigning rank.

Think about it. It makes sense.

Oh, as to how to judge general discussion, you judge it based on the same criteria as technical discussion - based on good quality, sensible, mature content, that's helpfully meant and pleasantly given. One might obtain credit for say - introducing other members to some books or films not related to computing that they might also like. That sort of thing is what we need more of.

Well it's a kinda useless post but since we are talking about removing the postcount it's ok

Makes me laugh a lot Phant when U call yourself "entity" like if you were the dark lord and as if the dark side was you

oh and by the way don't forget to come and say hi on IRC

well, "entity" is just me using a colourful choice of words. But I guess the Vader thing gets a little too messed up in everything by default because of the general theme of it.

Besides, anyway, I AM Darth Vader!

hehe

we know...........

I think you've just hit upon an idea P66, no need to change anything, simply move the post count to the user profile screen, and the egos will be moved also. No need for voting here on Techspot.

Besides, as a moderator, your job is to pass comments to users that are not following guidelines, which is exactly what you did, so why change anything. Does anybody actually care about receiving votes? I don't.

No, I was not recommending any sort of communism. More of a techspotinism . Seriously, come on, be a little open minded here. I mean.. lack of open mindedness is what drives us all to insanity for lack of under understanding the world around us!. Anyway, what I'm saying is we shouldn't create some illusion of being better than the other person with a rank on our name. Whether you, or anyone thinks so or agrees, the fact is it DOES make a lower ranking person feel like a lesser respected individual and probably some of us even feel a little attacked by that idea.

We are all here for one purpose only -- to learn. Hopefully instead of just lurking and reading you decided to contribute some, but I dont feel that it is the most important thing. We all need to learn from each other, here and in the real world so we need teachers. I feel the most important and helpful thing in this world right now would be teachers. The teachers we have in our governments and schools and communitys lack respectable knowledge (not all of them but lots of them), thus others are listening to these "teachers" and learn the wrong thing. Hmm.. I'm getting confusing here so I'll move to my next point.

All I'm saying is it's just my opinion that rank be removed, and if it is decided to use rank based on a persons helpfulness and attitude in this forum then we just have to make sure the persons voting don't have biased opinions. I can only name about 4 people that I would trust with this position on this board. One being Phantasm66, and maybe Poertner. Though again that kind of creates a problem. I'm not sure how to put my point across about what I'm trying to say. I just don't want us to make some decision that human beings have been making for hundreds and maybe thousands of years, because those decisions have obviously not been the greatest.

Hopefully you kind of understand what I'm saying, and I dont want to force my opinion on anyone as Im just making my opinion present so that you can consider my input in any decisions made here. We may be taking things a little serious considering this board is nothing but a bunch of text on the screen, so if your thinking that way then consider this -- we all need to start small in our lives, learn what we can, listen to our fellow human beings, trust our instincts and do what is right and take in those things that we feel are right and push away the things we feel are wrong. We must learn what is worth learning and ignore what we feel shouldn't be taught. We must listen closely to others input on matters here and in the real world, because one day we may be in the position of the U.S. President, or his advisors, or just being a Father or Mother of a family, and whether or not this board really means diddly squat, we will have learned from others and improved on the mislearnings of our past ancestors. So this is practice for us all, at least for the younger of us. So if you take this forum as a joke then, this is only my opinion, but you should leave. So, I ask you to stay here and if you decide to participate than to really think about what I just said and watch what you say, try not to put down others with your opinions and use this small venue as a way to "put in your 2 cents of help".. because for a large change it takes lots of smaller helping hands.

Now, that is my 2 cents. Take it as you will. Thank you for reading this if you did.

acid: I know where you're coming from, I think. I don't see any problem with the posts I read, so why this talk, as if we're all in some kind of crisis, which isn't the case. Also, I realise that some users do take ranking seriously, but not me. I couldn't care less. Whatever is decided is fine by me, and is unlikely to affect me, or my posts, in any way.

No, lol. see thats the point. Don't take it more serious than it is. I'm just trying to make a point, not just on this whole post count thing but as far as this whole community period. We need to work together as a team. Were all here to learn so lets, be a team, get along, and learn from each other. Otherwise this place is of no use. Not to mention if we dont get along were going to run each other off

Alot of what I said is my opinion on life in general. JUST my opinion. I am again trying to help others with my opinion and what I've learned frome experience. Im only using what I've learned from real life experience, to give you an opinion of what you can do to make it easier to work together here at TS. And another point I was trying to get across is when you grow up (IF your not already at that "grown up" age) and become some big business man or even just the resident janitor, no matter how important your job is everything you do makes an impression on everyone that comes in contact with you, even so much as seeing you walk down the street.. so we all have a responsiblity as human beings to be responsible and watch what we do so that the impressions we make on others are good ones.

Ya know, out of all seriousness, dont pay any attention to me. I talk a lot. Just the way I am. I'm not trying to change the world. Just trying to put in my 2 cents and encourage a small change, in a small internet community called TechSpot on a screen with little pixels that is actually pretty insignificant to "your real world". I'm a little big for my pants, trying to make a difference everywhere I go. It's just who I am hehe sorry. but yea I admit I've dropped my maturity level a bit here a few times but I've modified that attitude as you may have noticed in the last 24 hours.

One main thing Ive been thinking about lately is that a lot of us may go on to computer jobs in the future, or even running a business. I know right now, lately in the last year I've slowly began building a loyal customer base that I hope one day will grow into a real business of my own. Which is one reason I am here, to learn from you and everyone else here. I also feel that I have a lot of knowledge to give so I try my best to contribute that as much as possible. And I kinda realized lately that what I do here is going to reflect on myself in real life also and that if I dont act responsibly then when I do start some business in the future, the irresponsiblity that I show here will have infected me somewhat and I won't be the businessman I could have been had I acted responsibly earlier on in life.

Quite a lot of interesting points being raised here, so that makes it hard to know where to start...

Phantasm> I can see where you're coming from... And I think I understand some of the reasons for your suggestion. But I'm not quite sure how much it will help...

Be we could try it for a (limited) time, and see how it works out...


Also, there are alternative ways we could explore...
1. For a post to count towards the postcount, it would have to be over a certain lenght... I don't think there are many helpful posts out there, which is less than 3 sentences...

This would remove all the "LOL" "I agree" etc. from the "score", and thus only include longer, (hopefully) more helpful and articulate posts...

2. Any post made in the Gen Dis forum won't count.
This will remove "I had a weird dream" "How big is your desktop" etc. posts...
(I'm a bit unsure about the News forums, as the discussions there mostly aren't helpful, but rather discussions about tech stuff...)

3. Give moderators the ability to mark a post as "not counting towards postcount"... (This could be simple checkbox, which would go into effect when the moderator clicks on any of the links on that page)
This would enable the moderators to remove the posts which aren't helpful, but only filled up to get passed the length limit...

4. Remove the PDF posts from the postcount.


If we implement these changes (if at all possible with vB), we'd only be left with the questions and answers... This would mean a dramatic drop in postcount for some (most severe for Arris and me if I don't miss my guess)

Postcounts would also mean more than they have before, as the most helpful will have the most applicable posts...


This leaves us with the problem of newcomers to the forum, who might feel discouraged to post anything, as they might feel pushed away by all those with high postcounts...

But on the other hand, it might make the newcomers a bit more thoughful before posting...

If they know what they're "talking" about they shouldn't have any reason for not posting, and if they don't, they might just check once more to be certain...

It would also be quite gratifying to see you postcount increase, since you know you're doing something right, and not just because you're spamming the forum...

Yes, I know we'd get the same result with the moderators checking which posts should count towards a postcount, but that would increase their workload too much imo... No longer would they have to make certain the TOS is upheld, that posts are made in the correct forums, delete dobble posts, etc., but they would have to judge each and every post made to see if it is a quality post.

This could lead to certain members getting a smaller postcount than they should, because the moderator in charge of that forum skipped that thread, was annoyed at another comment the user had made and thus didn't rate his post (this is not likely to happen, but it could...)...

It could also lead to certain members getting more credit than they should, since they know the moderators, and are on their good side/knows their humour etc....

By accepting a post as quality if it confirms with the rules outlined above, and the moderators had to go in and do something to make it not count, it would reduces the chances of anything like this happening to a post that didin't deserve it...


NOTE: I have nothing against any of the moderators, or the way they do their job! I actiually feel they are doing a very good job, as I never see anything that shouldn't be here... Nor am I trying to attack their objectivity if they were to choose what is quality and what is not.

.02$

Nuff said.