OpenAI responds to Musk lawsuit by publishing his emails: Urged it to raise $1 billion,...

[midian182]

What just happened? OpenAI has responded to the Elon Musk lawsuit by publishing old emails it received from the billionaire. The messages show he supported the company's plan to create a for-profit arm and encouraged it to raise at least $1 billion in funding, two of the reasons why Musk is now suing the artificial intelligence firm.

Musk sued OpenAI last week over claims it had breached its original contractual agreements by putting profit ahead of developing AI that benefits humanity.

The suit highlights the investment by Microsoft, which has poured around $13 billion into OpenAI. "OpenAI, Inc has been transformed into a closed-source de facto subsidiary of the largest technology company in the world: Microsoft," Musk's lawsuit claims.

OpenAI has now responded to the suit with a public post authored by founding members, including CEO Sam Altman and Greg Brockman. It states that OpenAI's mission is to ensure AGI (artificial general intelligence) benefits all of humanity, and that the company intends to move to dismiss all of Musk's claims.

Change your name

– Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 6, 2024

According to the post, Brockman and Altman initially planned to raise $100 million when they started OpenAI in 2015, but Musk said in an email that they needed to go with a much bigger number to avoid "sounding hopeless." Musk allegedly wrote in an email, "I think we should say that we are starting with a $1B funding commitment […] I will cover whatever anyone else doesn't provide."

According to the post, the non-profit raised less than $45 million from Musk and more than $90 million from other donors.

OpenAI says it was in early 2017 when the company realized just how much computational power would be required to build an AGI, and that meant a lot more capital – billions of dollars per year, more than anyone, including Musk, thought they'd be able to raise as a non-profit.

The post goes on to say that the team and Musk decided the next step was to create a for-profit entity, of which Musk wanted majority equity, initial board control, and to be CEO. Amid the discussions, he withheld funding.

With OpenAI refusing to give one individual absolute control over the company, Musk suggested merging with Tesla. "Tesla is the only path that could even hope to hold a candle to Google. Even then, the probability of being a counterweight to Google is small. It just isn't zero," Musk's email read. He also told the founders to use Tesla as a "cash cow."

Musk soon left OpenAI, saying he planned to build an AGI competitor within Tesla. In a 2018 email, he wrote that without a dramatic change in execution and resources, the probability of OpenAI being relevant to DeepMind/Google was 0%, not 1%.

The emails make for interesting reading in light of Musk's lawsuit against OpenAI. Assuming they are real, it will likely add fuel to the theory that Musk's suit is simply a case of sour grapes.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/102151-openai-responds-musk-lawsuit-publishing-emails-called-tesla.html

 

[WhiteLeaff]

Disclosing personal emails without authorization is a crime in many places.

 

[godrilla]

Disclosing personal emails without authorization is a crime in many places.

Especially if they were likely under nda. Now they became the cash cow.

 

[AdamNovagen]

Especially if they were likely under nda. Now they became the cash cow.

Not at all. It's highly unlikely they had an actual signed NDA for this, and the release is easily defensible in court. Sure, Elon will probably try to leverage this to further his current lawsuit, but it's doubtful that it will actually hurt OpenAI in the end.

 

[godrilla]

Not at all. It's highly unlikely they had an actual signed NDA for this, and the release is easily defensible in court. Sure, Elon will probably try to leverage this to further his current lawsuit, but it's doubtful that it will actually hurt OpenAI in the end.

Yep we came to the same conclusion if anything it would be Musk's assets at risk.

 

[Uncle Al]

Musk needs to suffer the same consequences as Trump ..... oh now wouldn't THAT be precious!!!

 

[bviktor]

A sore loser, nothing more.

 

[bviktor]

Disclosing personal emails without authorization is a crime in many places.

Except this wasn't a "personal" matter in the slightest.

 

[AdamNovagen]

Musk needs to suffer the same consequences as Trump ..... oh now wouldn't THAT be precious!!!

So, absolutely none at all, followed by running for presidency? I hope not.

 

[lonetac]

Musk blasted AI when it came out because he was behind. Techspot posted it and I recall saying this was simply because he wanted a piece of the pie and couldnt handle someone being ahead of him.

Fast forward, he then started his own AI company hence confirming what I stated.

Fast forward again, he is still trying to battle companies that are ahead of him because he wants the profit. It has nothing to do with bettering humanity and absolutely everything with him trying to stop others from doing what he is trying to first.

The guy is a despicable human and this is backed up by nearly all his companies ousting him as nobody wants to work with him.

How people fan boy for this man is really fascinating (and not in a good way).

 

[lonetac]

Disclosing personal emails without authorization is a crime in many places.

Its only a crime if
A. Its under NDA or contractual obligation

Other wise it is not a crime in the USA.

 

[jwdR311]

Of course none of it is AI generated.

 

[Furriest]

There really is no honor among thieves, no matter the scale

 

[Endymio]

Its only a crime if A. Its under NDA or contractual obligation

Incorrect. Breaking NDA is a civil matter, not criminal. It's a crime if done for reasons of fraud, harassment, or a whole host of other matters (which I don't any of applying here).

Musk needs to suffer the same consequences as Trump ..... oh now wouldn't THAT be precious!!!

Translation: I don't like someone, so the hell with ethics, due process and morality -- out with the pitchforks!

There really is no honor among thieves, no matter the scale

Learn what words mean. Whether you're referring to OpenAI or Musk, I doubt either has stolen a penny from you -- or anyone else.

 

[Endymio]

What's interesting about this article is that none of OpenAI's published emails actually address the core of the lawsuit -- that Musk agreed that OpenAI should move from "open" source to a secretive patent-based and trade secret-based business model. Nor does it matter what Musk may have said during initial negotiations -- what matters is what the company charter states.

 

[lonetac]

Incorrect. Breaking NDA is a civil matter, not criminal. It's a crime if done for reasons of fraud, harassment, or a whole host of other matters (which I don't any of applying here).


Translation: I don't like someone, so the hell with ethics, due process and morality -- out with the pitchforks!


Learn what words mean. Whether you're referring to OpenAI or Musk, I doubt either has stolen a penny from you -- or anyone else.

Im not shocked this is your response with your history of being wrong about things.

"Is it illegal to share a private email?


In the US (other countries may be completely different), it is legal for you to publish an email that someone sent you, unless you have a pre-existing contract with that person to keep things secret (e.g. a mutual non-disclosure agreement). Contracts could be written or verbal."

 

[dirtyferret]

So, absolutely none at all, followed by running for presidency? I hope not.

musk was born in South Africa so he can't run unless trump gets elected, destroys the constitution, judicial system, and legislative branch; basically the fundamental principles of US democracy...you know his entire platform

 

[Furriest]

Incorrect. Breaking NDA is a civil matter, not criminal. It's a crime if done for reasons of fraud, harassment, or a whole host of other matters (which I don't any of applying here).


Translation: I don't like someone, so the hell with ethics, due process and morality -- out with the pitchforks!


Learn what words mean. Whether you're referring to OpenAI or Musk, I doubt either has stolen a penny from you -- or anyone else.

Use context, and perhaps past events next time, dude. OpenAI scrapes the entire internet and has had a history of regurgitating entire photos in their compressed trained format out, plausible deniability trademark infringement, admission of the systems needing to bake their systems on trademarked content, all of this collectively screams several terabytes of data being recklessly compressed and spat back out to the end user.

Elon has had a comical history of buying out promising companies, brands (or the lack thereof) and ripping the fabric of their reputation and brand identity to either shreds or in rushed, comical ways. Yes, billionaires are free from institutionalized education, and get luxurious education from professional, one on one educators. Yes, billionaires are extremely successful, however the negative effect they have on a populace or culture is [relatively] independent from their corporate or individual success. Neither the [CEO CSO CTO]'s of OpenAI or Tesla are or will ever be your ally or friend, and currently, neither of the two companies CEO's are on good terms, either.

Theft isn't a matter of only money, many priceless or public works can be stolen or bootlegged [which is what Image/TextGen does in hyper-simplified terms] for clout, profit, etc. without the original owners having the intention to drive a profit. The usual target of this with neural networks is creative works via image generation. Go to a Discord with a built-in image generator, check the prompt channels, and see how long it takes for someone to say "in the style of [X]," or "drawn by [Y]." Its the equivalent of defending pirating indie games [because creative works in the social space is done typically by an individual and not a corporation] because you're tEcHnIcAlLy not stealing any money from them that they already had. Think further, you're stealing both their drive to do creative work in the form of writing or traditional art, and / or also taking a cut from their monthly income.

 

[Endymio]

Im not shocked this is your response with your history of being wrong about things.

"Is it illegal to share a private email?

In the US (other countries may be completely different), it is legal for you to publish an email that someone sent you, unless you have a pre-existing contract with that person to keep things secret (e.g. a mutual non-disclosure agreement). Contracts could be written or verbal."

LOL, no, I'm not wrong -- you've simply (once again) misunderstood your own reference. When you break an NDA (or other contract), you're in violation of civil law. Not criminal law. This should clarify things:

Cornell Law: "NDAs are civil contracts, meaning that breaking one technically won’t be considered a criminal offense (unless the breach is associated with criminal conduct such as IP theft)). Penalties generally include compensatory damage and sometimes punitive damage..."

non-disclosure agreement (NDA)

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[lonetac]

LOL, no, I'm not wrong -- you've simply (once again) misunderstood your own reference. When you break an NDA (or other contract), you're in violation of civil law. Not criminal law. This should clarify things:

Cornell Law: "NDAs are civil contracts, meaning that breaking one technically won’t be considered a criminal offense (unless the breach is associated with criminal conduct such as IP theft)). Penalties generally include compensatory damage and sometimes punitive damage..."

non-disclosure agreement (NDA)

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not wrong. I didnt say criminal law or civil law. I said if its illegal which it only is if you have a contract of some sort. Whether its criminal or civil is irrelevant but as usual you are just talking out of your butt.

You have a posting history of just being a complete non factor in any conversation. Welcome to my ignore list.

Should have picked this up in your previous comments.

 

[Endymio]

OpenAI scrapes the entire internet and has had a history of regurgitating entire photos in their compressed trained format out, plausible deniability trademark infringement, admission of the systems needing to bake their systems on trademarked content....

Ignoring the fact you've confused copyrights with trademarks -- what does this have to do with Musk? He left OpenAI's board in 2018, long before the acts in question even occurred.

Elon has had a comical history of buying out promising companies, brands (or the lack thereof) and ripping the fabric of their reputation and brand identity to either shreds ...

Your "history" is one company -- which Musk has forced to clean up its act. Twitter, prior to Musk, was found by a federal judge to have been illegally conspiring with the FBI to restrict free speech rights:

Reuters: " A U.S. federal judge on Tuesday restricted agencies and officials of the Biden Administration from meeting and communicating with social media companies to moderate their content, according to a court filing...."

Yes, billionaires are extremely successful, however the negative effect they have on a populace or culture is [relatively] independent from their corporate or individual success.

Aesop summed up your feelings centuries ago, using the term "sour grapes".

Use context, and perhaps past events next time, dude.

Are we in a 1990s surfer movie? Would you like to hear my Keanu Reeves impersonation?

 

[Endymio]

I am not wrong. I didnt say criminal law or civil law. I said if its illegal

You've already forgotten your own post? It's still up there above, post #12:

"Its [sic] only a crime [if] Its under NDA or contractual obligation..."

(hint: 'crime' implies criminal law)

Furthermore, in normal English speech, the term "illegal" generally encompasses criminal law, not civil. Is it "illegal" to pay your utility bill two days late, even if it violates your contract with them?

 

[lonetac]

You've already forgotten your own post? It's still up there above, post #12:

"Its [sic] only a crime [if] Its under NDA or contractual obligation..."

(hint: 'crime' implies criminal law)

Oops! Civil crime is still a crime!

Consider yourself educated.

Where in this post did I specify civil crime or criminal? Is civil crime not a crime? Seems to have the word crime in it, does it not? Are you saying a civil crime isnt a crime?

A civil crime is just a crime against someone but it is still very much a crime. Man, the fact you have to have this explained to you is baffling.

Its only a crime if
A. Its under NDA or contractual obligation

Other wise it is not a crime in the USA.

And your edited post just clarifies you know nothing about civil law. Im shocked you are not embarrassed for representing yourself with such nonsense.

Slowly back away dude, you are looking like a complete fool.

 

[Endymio]

Oops! Civil crime is still a crime! Is civil crime not a crime?

Are you serious? Is paying a bill late a crime? Is failing to complete a project on time a crime? Do Uniform Crime Report statistics include civil cases?

Oxford English Dictionary: "Crime: an action or omission that constitutes an offense prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law..."

Cornell Law: "Crimes are prosecuted by government attorneys. Such attorneys may represent a city, county, state, or the federal government."

The Law Dictionary: "A crime is an act committed or omitted, in violation of a public law, either forbidding or commanding it; a breach or violation of some public right or duty due to a whole community, considered as a community. In its social aggregate capacity, as distinguished from a civil injury. Wilkins v. U. S...."

All Law: "Crimes generally represent conduct that causes a public harm to society as a whole and goes beyond injuries to private parties. For instance, a breach of contract primarily affects the parties to the contract (and is a civil action), but criminal acts—like murder, impaired driving, or theft—cause injury and harm to [society.]

Criminal law differs from civil law in other respects, as well. For instance, a government lawyer (called a prosecutor) brings criminal charges against the accused, usually on behalf of the state or federal government. In contrast, a private lawyer files a civil lawsuit to resolve a dispute between private parties...."

 

[Furriest]

Aesop summed up your feelings centuries ago, using the term "sour grapes".
Are we in a 1990s surfer movie? Would you like to hear my Keanu Reeves impersonation?

Friendly reminder, this is a debate forum, not a belittling competition. You have a post history of doing such with other examples starting off with things such as "Sorry; is English not your native language?." or "How dare they use these chips to help cure cancer, fight terror, and alleviate world hunger..." even in context these remarks were wildly confrontational and off-topic [in my opinion].

I really do admire the determination but I think I would much prefer learn a thing or two like when you mentioned Twitter and the FBI conspiring, but I am having a difficult time finding the exact article because twitter is always writhing in a vat of legal controversy. A link to the source article would help [because I am struggling to find it myself].