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Senators introduce legislation to penalize Facebook co-founder

By Shawn Knight
May 17, 2012
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  1. Why do our leaders have a knee-jerk response to make more rules to penalize people? Why can't we just fix the rules so that American citizens doing business abroad can function, but the rules will still help the G-men fight terrorism and tax fraud. The rules should not be so onerous that people are willing to give up their US citizenship--even people who are Brazilian. The rules should not be so onerous for banks that they try to avoid having US citizens as customers.

    I worked for one organization where management sucked (like that is news!). Management noted a lot of employees were leaving. Their reaction? Did they start making good management decisions? Did they create a work environment where everyone could be highly productive and had high job satisfaction? Do pigs fly? Their reaction was to "punish" people for leaving, by making the non-compete clause more onerous. Ya think I am going to become a better worker because you make it more painful for me to leave? Ya think!

    If rules were all it took to be a great organization, the IRS and the VA would be the models to which all other organizations aspired.
     
  2. I'm sure Saverin is a really smart guy, and I'm sure he worked really, really hard. But face it, this enormous wealth is largely--some might say virtually exclusively--a case of right place/right time, dumb luck. And although this sort of story can play out elsehere, it's much more likely to play out in this country. If I were in his shoes, I would be more than happy to pay whatever taxes are due, and I'd thank my lucky stars for the opportunity.

    Then I'd just figure out how to make do on $2 billion.

    (And fwiw, I've spent most of my career as an investment banker at big Wall Street firms and I do not dislike wealth or the wealthy.)
     
  3. Well put. The greedy (not successful) in our society could never measure up to the GREATEST GENERATION for example. I people who put country first. As you said, it was largely doubt luck.. Oh, and by the way, alot of people are about to takin on a OVER EVALUATED ride via a over priced IPO. Really? I been around long enough, I've seen this movie before.... GM will no longer advertise with FB. They realize what those who will be duped into buying this stock dont know. Systems like NING will forever nipp at the margins of FB market share.... at their just the beginning.. Watch. I heist is about to occur in this IPO.
     
  4. Night Hacker

    Night Hacker TS Enthusiast Posts: 113   +12

    "allegedly did just that".... sorry, innocent until proven guilty. It pisses me off when I see people accused of things without proof, based on a hunch.

    Come back when you have some solid proof he did something wrong.
     
  5. A very sad story. Not sad that he can do it. No its sad because he want to do it. I dont believe in over taxing the rich.. not do I believe in overly supporting those who choose not to support themselves. But this man by leaving the country that has lead to his wealth and good on him for that he is abandoning only to save money, when he clearly has more now than he could ever hope to spend. I think that is sad. Sad that he is so driven to make more maoney he will sacrifice some fo his own happiness. Sad that he hasnt realise that there is a price to pay to live in great countries. I imagine he will end up rich lonely and surrounded my non friends. A very sad story and a reflection on where we are heading as a soicety.
     
  6. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Evangelist Posts: 1,601   +629

    "Fairness," "Greed," "Patriotism," "Globalization," "Entitlements," "Atlas Shrugged," "Tax evasion," "Political Hypocrisy," "Punishing Success," "Taxation by Comparison," "Unions," "Wages," "the Market" and "Dumb Luck." Looks like we've pretty much covered all of the mainstream talking points. Well, except for the rants specifically detailing the evils of socialism and/or capitalism. I'm sure those will follow.

    As for Saverin... It's his freedom to choose where to take his money. There are more important issues to get riled about than this triviality.
     
  7. It is just so amazing how naive politicians and especially americans are. Just like reinventing the wheel with healthcare when practically EVERY single country has socialized medicine and we did EVERYTHING wrong. Couldn't look to our neighbors, huh? It doesn't seem any american has ever even left his hometown. Orthodox communism has NO taxes. Put that in your pipe and smoke on it. Why not put import taxes on foreign products to return some of those jobs, if you need more taxes?
     
  8. 3 billions in share value and couple hundred million in tax is to much to share, with all you get from being an American.
    What is that ...004 percent tax

    How much does a person need to have, to feel better that the ones that have little.

    I made 20 ,000 last year and paid 16 percent pay roll tax
     
  9. Obviously taxes are a hot issue as noted from all the coments, so I'll jump right in. I feel the problem with Corporate America is it based on Taking the most while Giving the least. It used to be people were happy to Give back and some still are, though many just want to take. We don't need the rich to pay for the poor, what we need is a more fair and balanced system that allows all people to get the best from society and not just a few.
     
  10. stewi0001

    stewi0001 TS Booster Posts: 373   +29

    Yup my government is corrupt...
     
  11. "Obviously taxes are a hot issue as noted from all the comments, so I'll jump right in. I feel the problem with Corporate America is it based on Taking the most while Giving the least. It used to be people were happy to Give back and some still are, though many just want to take. We don't need the rich to pay for the poor, what we need is a more fair and balanced system that allows all people to get the best from society and not just a few."

    +10 Karma (y)
     
     
  12. Night Hacker

    Night Hacker TS Enthusiast Posts: 113   +12

    You realize there are other countries in the world one can be happy in, especially if you're filthy rich. To assume that the USA is the only place one can be truly happy and have friends is the height of arrogance. I don't live in USA, I don't know how I have been happy until now, strange isn't it? ;)

    Also, people keep assuming he left to avoid paying money. This could be true, but I believe in "innocent until proven guilty", if the man says that wasn't the reason he left, than I believe him until someone can prove otherwise.
     
  13. Tygerstrike

    Tygerstrike TS Enthusiast Posts: 827   +93

    Innocent until proven guilty would apply in a court of Law. Not the court of public opinion. The FACT that he bailed out of America before his shares went public makes what he has done suspect. Add on to the fact that Americans really do hate the rich. Not because they are rich per say. But because most of the RICH never had to actually work for any of their money. I highly doubt that any CEO or executive has ever had to dig a ditch. Or try and decide if they should pay a bill or feed their family. There are a few noteable exceptions but nearly 99% of the really rich have never had to do a honest days work in their misirable lives. It doesnt matter if they are Replublicans or Democrats. The simple fact of the matter is their lives were made easier by the money. Everyone else has to work hard and try and make tough decisions with a very limited income.
    That is why there is such an outcry against the rich. The general unfairness and doublestandards that the rich get.
     
  14. All your citizens are belong to us.
     
  15. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Evangelist Posts: 1,601   +629

    Because the only labor that counts is manual labor.


    Pure emotional speculation.


    Because being financially secure is inherently evil.


    Profound observation.


    And now we've hit the real issue, which is wealth envy. As economies have become more globalized over the past two decades the resultant local market saturation (see: increase in labor supply) and structural unemployment has caught millions of people with their pants down. Instead of acquiring new skills and adapting to the changing environment, we here in America have come to loathe those who have managed to insulate themselves from this phenomenon either by consciously putting themselves in an advantageous position or thru pure serendipity. And instead of looking up to highly successful individuals (millionaires and billionaires) and seeking to learn something, we've stereotyped the whole lot because of a few ethical and legal bad apples (oh yes, and a few serendipitous guys and gals). The problem with America isn't the rich. It's the masses of individuals who've been duped into hating the very thing they apparently long for (see: financial security) and those who fail to understand how basic economics affects the achievement of that goal.
     
  16. It is incorrect to say that "people no longer like to work"... when it is people like Mitt ROmney thet relocate manufacturing job oversees so that americans no longer work.

    Sitting @ an office all day is not work... u do nothing, no physical work get done, u just have a job u must show up @ and get paid! Amrican don't need more worless jobs, where all people do is collect income for using a keyboard. They have producesd ZERO for thsi country to sell elsewhere to make us rich..
     
  17. Poor child... can't wait till He's kidnapped for ransom and has no US to vie for him, etc....
     
  18. Tygerstrike

    Tygerstrike TS Enthusiast Posts: 827   +93

    @Davislane

    Its not wealth envy. Its hating the ppl who get to coast through life while the rest of America has to suffer. Have you ever had to apply for food stamps? Have you ever had to stand in line trying to get a job? The ppl with money dont have to do these tasks. And no manual labor isnt the only labor that is viable. Its used to show that they have no skill set beyond playing golf. It has nothing to do with economics. It has everything to do with Americans making the rich richer while any chance the regular guy has is stomped on.
     
  19. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Evangelist Posts: 1,601   +629

    . That, my friend, is the product of envy. If someone is able to escape the plights of the masses, good for them. Mutual fate/outcome is the philosophy of hypocrites.

    And yes, unemployment, rising household expenses, and wages have everything to do with economics. Globalization -- the mechanism that sends "our" jobs overseas -- is an economic behavior. Low wages for digging ditches? A product of labor market supply and demand. Higher pay for managerial and executive positions? Labor market supply and demand. Rising cost of goods? A product of inflation and other market forces.

    The argument that business owners and people who occupy high-salary positions only occupy such positions because they lack any legitimate skills is ludicrous. It's equally ludicrous to suggest that most of them have poor work ethics. If high-salary jobs required no "real" skills and CEOs never had to do any "real" work, then such individuals would be a dime a dozen. This is not to say that there isn't a population of numbskulls who are simply lucky enough to be put in such positions, as the ineptitude of the brass in several large companies over the past decade has shown. But the stereotyping of the whole group is absurd.

    The stomping of the "regular guy" comes from our collective ignorance of economics, market dynamics, and the effects of government policy on the U.S economy. Not to mention the backward management of finances we seem to have an affinity for. We vote for people who appeal exclusively to our emotions. Because we are oblivious to the actual effects of their policies, we get screwed each and every time. The "little guy" has done it to himself by voting for money.

    And yes, I've experienced the short end of the stick in the labor force. If I had a penny for every time I've been told "Yeah, we'll call you" or hearing "Sorry, I/we decided to go with someone else" I'd be typing this from a yacht. The reason I didn't get those jobs is because I wasn't seen as a good investment by the employers. Period. Not the system's fault, not the employer's "greed," just the fact that there was someone else there who was seen as a better candidate. That, or they simply didn't need any new workers. The solution? Get better skills that are worth more than a pittance to employers, which is why I've spent the last year and a half balancing full-time school and a fledging career while forgoing all of the pleasantries and social pleasures that my peers enjoy.
     
  20. Tygerstrike

    Tygerstrike TS Enthusiast Posts: 827   +93

    @Davislane

    I had written a nice scathing post, pointing out the flaws of your argument. Then I deleted it. I realized that you are only spouting the information you have that you have experienced. So kudos to you for getting into school. Not everyone can have the luck you have experienced. The rest of us have to work for a living. I dearly pray that you dont end up like the rest of us. A nice fancy diploma that you are going to be in debt for about 10yrs on, and no job prospects other then flipping burgers or waiting tables to try and make it from week to week.
     
  21. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Evangelist Posts: 1,601   +629

    Look, if I'm wrong, point it out - scathing or otherwise. That's the purpose of discussion forums. I'm not here just to regurgitate popular talking points from my little social bubble and/or call names. But if my opinions are validated only by my experience and not grounded in anything objective, by all means, give me yours (that are free from any experiential biases)?

    I'm not trying to be an apologist for the millions of individuals out there who game the system, rich and poor alike. Nor am I trying to suggest that people who find themselves in tough patches or even in dire situations are there simply because "they did it to themselves" or because of "tough luck." My issue is with the apparent lack of a rational basis for the contempt and hate that people seem to have with anyone who is better off than they are? How do millionaires commit an objective wrong by being millionaires? How is an individual who makes $250,000/yr. managing someone's retirement portfolio inherently less virtuous than the $20,000/yr. laborer who digs ditches? More importantly, what justifies the double-standard that says I shouldn't stereotype people because of their religious or political beliefs or their race, but it's perfectly okay to hate them for their wealth? If my arguments thus far on the issue are deficient, please, point out the flaws in my reasoning.
     
  22. I find it interesting that all the posters missed this part:

    "But at the time of his death, his heirs would face an estate tax rate of 35 percent or more. Under gift tax laws, a living individual can only give $13,000 per calendar year per person without being taxed."

    Now for the life of me, I cannot understand why we as individuals are taxed when we die even though we have paid all of our dividend, capital gains and income taxes throughout out life? Why should the US or any other gov't be entitled to an estate/gift tax of any kind? THAT is the real story here.

    Estate tax should be completely abolished since it's straight up redistribution of wealth through the means of legal theft.

    Also, I 100% agree that any American living abroad should only pay the difference in taxes between the foreign country and the US tax rate. US is the only country in the world that taxes individuals on their worldwide income. The reason no other country has such tax laws in place is because THEY MAKE NO SENSE. When you are in another country, you use their roads, their security, their health care, your kids go to that foreign country's schools, not US services. Period.
     
  23. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Evangelist Posts: 1,601   +629

  24. OUTLAWXXX

    OUTLAWXXX TS Rookie Posts: 51

    Didn't realize their was so many people here that would defend the ridiculously rich 0_o

    I'm all for capitalism but after a person amasses tens of millions of dollars and above... It becomes absurd. They really weren't that much smarter or hardworking than the next person. Becoming wealthy takes skill/hard work but becoming filthy rich is just luck and at that point it's only right to be taxed 50% and higher to repay society for the opportunity of being so ridiculously fortunate.

    Again... Nothing wrong w/ having more money than others if you worked for it but their does reach a point when one can suck too much money from the economy. Most rich people sit on their cash. If you really think it's wrong to tax the ridiculously rich than your probably a bit on the greedy side.
     
  25. Rasta211

    Rasta211 TS Enthusiast Posts: 198   +28

    Amen to that and I'm not even American! When America wants to come and take your wealth there ain't **** you going to do about it, unless you pay off the Americans.
     


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