Shims on Athlon XP
- Thread starter Vehementi
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Multiplier??
Who said anything about changing the multiplier?? The multiplier stays at 11.5... You are changing the FSB to 150, so instead of of 1527 (11.5 times 132.79FSB) it is 1725 (11.5 times 150.00 FSB). The only way to overclock using the ECS K7S5A is to change the FSB speed... You can't change the multiplier or voltage in bios on that board, only FSB speed. Plus, not really sure I want to play with my L1 bridges to do that. It was hard enough to connect the L11 (L7s on older ones) to increase the voltage to the cpu to handle the extra speed...
Be Cool!
:grinthumb
Kris.
Who said anything about changing the multiplier?? The multiplier stays at 11.5... You are changing the FSB to 150, so instead of of 1527 (11.5 times 132.79FSB) it is 1725 (11.5 times 150.00 FSB). The only way to overclock using the ECS K7S5A is to change the FSB speed... You can't change the multiplier or voltage in bios on that board, only FSB speed. Plus, not really sure I want to play with my L1 bridges to do that. It was hard enough to connect the L11 (L7s on older ones) to increase the voltage to the cpu to handle the extra speed...
Be Cool!
:grinthumb
Kris.
Wolfridr; Your computer must sound like an aircraft taking off!
I've only got one Pabst 120mm 50cfm fan that is so quiet that I can't hear it even if I put my ear next to it (I think it's rated at 21db which is below a whisper...)
That fan is put on my CPUFX Z3 watercooler
Then I only have the standard fans; The one on my ATI Radeon 8500 which actually is the fan in my computer that makes the most noise; I'm thinking of watercooling it...
The standard chipset fan; Quite quiet though when I turn of the fan on my GFX card that is the fan that creates the most high-pitched sound...
I have two 40mm fans that cool my harddrive but I only have them on when I do intense drive access... ("Ultimate harddrive cooler" is it called...)
And last but not least my Enermax 431w powersupply; two fans in that big boy and the 80mm fan creates a quite audiable sound; Though it's bearable because it's RPM is so extremley low (in the 2000rpm range) And then also the other fan in the powersupply but I have never gotten my computer quiet enough so that I could hear it...
Guess my next project will be to watercool my harddrive and then put it in some cind of sound-proof material like foam or something, after that I'll watercool the GFX card, than the chipset and finally the PSU
Then I can really say that I have a quiet computer!
I've only got one Pabst 120mm 50cfm fan that is so quiet that I can't hear it even if I put my ear next to it (I think it's rated at 21db which is below a whisper...)
That fan is put on my CPUFX Z3 watercooler
Then I only have the standard fans; The one on my ATI Radeon 8500 which actually is the fan in my computer that makes the most noise; I'm thinking of watercooling it...
The standard chipset fan; Quite quiet though when I turn of the fan on my GFX card that is the fan that creates the most high-pitched sound...
I have two 40mm fans that cool my harddrive but I only have them on when I do intense drive access... ("Ultimate harddrive cooler" is it called...)
And last but not least my Enermax 431w powersupply; two fans in that big boy and the 80mm fan creates a quite audiable sound; Though it's bearable because it's RPM is so extremley low (in the 2000rpm range) And then also the other fan in the powersupply but I have never gotten my computer quiet enough so that I could hear it...
Guess my next project will be to watercool my harddrive and then put it in some cind of sound-proof material like foam or something, after that I'll watercool the GFX card, than the chipset and finally the PSU
Then I can really say that I have a quiet computer!
Bill The Cat
Posts: 7 +0
One thing I've seen a few dozen times that may make using a shim useful is there are some that think clamping the heatsink down super hard makes the heatsink work better and using a shim will protect the cpu from the super tight heatsink clamping.
Heck, for a bit even I thought this way till my engineer friend and some research told me different. I know there are some heatsink clamps that are what I'd call defective, in which they do put too much pressure on the cpu's core and a shim may help in this case. I went with the Alpha PAL8045 with no shim because it is so well designed to not put undue pressure on the core and also fits on evenly if directions are followed so a shim isn't going to be useful. Using springs and the 4 holes built into the motherboard was a great idea, I never liked the clamp on method much, there is just another chance to screw something up with the clamps except for a few types that are well designed so a screwdriver isn't required and won't put force on the core unevenly as some cheaper types can do. The Alpha is A very good heatsink as well. If common sence is used along with a well designed heatsink a shim is not really needed but may give a little bit of assurance that the core won't crack.
One thing that has bothered me about the clamp on method as well though I don't know how much it effects it but most of those types of heatsinks that use a clamp has the clamp area right over the top of the cpu core. While it's good for putting the pressure evenly it also has no fins in this area and the heat has to spread out to the fins while the Alpha and other no clamp types don't have the space down the middle where there is no fin's. I wonder if this is one reason why the Alpha and that other one do so well in cooling, they have a bit more surface area right above the cpu and also the air flow isn't blocked or interfered with by the clamp? Just something that has always kind of bugged me.
Heck, for a bit even I thought this way till my engineer friend and some research told me different. I know there are some heatsink clamps that are what I'd call defective, in which they do put too much pressure on the cpu's core and a shim may help in this case. I went with the Alpha PAL8045 with no shim because it is so well designed to not put undue pressure on the core and also fits on evenly if directions are followed so a shim isn't going to be useful. Using springs and the 4 holes built into the motherboard was a great idea, I never liked the clamp on method much, there is just another chance to screw something up with the clamps except for a few types that are well designed so a screwdriver isn't required and won't put force on the core unevenly as some cheaper types can do. The Alpha is A very good heatsink as well. If common sence is used along with a well designed heatsink a shim is not really needed but may give a little bit of assurance that the core won't crack.
One thing that has bothered me about the clamp on method as well though I don't know how much it effects it but most of those types of heatsinks that use a clamp has the clamp area right over the top of the cpu core. While it's good for putting the pressure evenly it also has no fins in this area and the heat has to spread out to the fins while the Alpha and other no clamp types don't have the space down the middle where there is no fin's. I wonder if this is one reason why the Alpha and that other one do so well in cooling, they have a bit more surface area right above the cpu and also the air flow isn't blocked or interfered with by the clamp? Just something that has always kind of bugged me.
Vehementi
Posts: 2,644 +2
I would've killed for a shim...
Well. I'm a believer in shims now. The heatsink I got crushed the core of my Athlon XP. I had to send it in for an RMA...which was pretty inconvenient...I think a shim would've prevented this. Or not? No matter - the clip strength was a little too much. Hence my signature...
Well. I'm a believer in shims now. The heatsink I got crushed the core of my Athlon XP. I had to send it in for an RMA...which was pretty inconvenient...I think a shim would've prevented this. Or not? No matter - the clip strength was a little too much. Hence my signature...
No offence but I think that was more of a problem with the person installing the heatsink than the heatsink itself...
I've got three vantec coolers here and sure; Their clips aren't near perfect but you wont crush the core with it if you are just careful...
I've got three vantec coolers here and sure; Their clips aren't near perfect but you wont crush the core with it if you are just careful...
Phantasm66
Posts: 4,909 +8
You have to be REALLY careful with those Athlon CPUs....
I've never broken one, but having a good look at the chip, I can see how a little carelessness would get it broken.
Shame, those Slot A chips were built like little tanks.
I've never broken one, but having a good look at the chip, I can see how a little carelessness would get it broken.
Shame, those Slot A chips were built like little tanks.
And adding to my previous post; Yes if you had used a shim this would never had happened...
If you want me to I can trie to crack my dead Athlon XP chip I have here when I have a shim on, I'm pretty sure it's impossible though...
If you want me to I can trie to crack my dead Athlon XP chip I have here when I have a shim on, I'm pretty sure it's impossible though...
I like my Vantec! Better than my FOB 32-1
Clip problems happen w/ every cooler. In fact the clips are very similar. I think I read they are spec'ed to exert 20 ft-lbs of tension to the core. One thing I have learned is to remove the motherboard & install the cooler. If i'ts sliding around & not seated properly, then that's when the (accident) problems occur. Some dudes even flex the clips first, but the tension is very important.
Clip problems happen w/ every cooler. In fact the clips are very similar. I think I read they are spec'ed to exert 20 ft-lbs of tension to the core. One thing I have learned is to remove the motherboard & install the cooler. If i'ts sliding around & not seated properly, then that's when the (accident) problems occur. Some dudes even flex the clips first, but the tension is very important.
Vehementi
Posts: 2,644 +2
Is so much force necessary? I mean I understand the need for the heatsink not to move along the CPU, and the position most people's boxes are in, this being upright and the heatsink very susceptible to slide and become uneven, but a simple clip with a 3 hook design to take advantage of most if not all socket A system board's 3 hooks will easily eliminate this problem. The cooler I got from Vantec obviously wasn't made with socket A in mind, why? I don't know. Just that that clip design COULD have been used, and would allow the clip tension to be held back somewhat. 20 lbs/ft is amazing. Athlon XP dies weren't made to be pressed down upon with force like that. They weren't made for strength. All of the heatsink's weight is on that one small square of metal, minus the rubber stays which don't actually do much to spread out the force. Shims easily, VERY easily spread it out and thus dampen the force on the core, but retain enough pressure to conduct heat between the die and the heatsink.
The name of them escapes me, but I can recall seeing a heat sink which actually uses the four holes outside of the socket itself, and is connected to the system board with screws. I understand how someone can easily make the heat sink uneven along the core with these, but a shim would do fine.
The name of them escapes me, but I can recall seeing a heat sink which actually uses the four holes outside of the socket itself, and is connected to the system board with screws. I understand how someone can easily make the heat sink uneven along the core with these, but a shim would do fine.
The name of that fan is the Alpha 8045, Swiftech also has a similar model...
Take a look at my SocketA Cooling guide to see how it looks and also my thoughts on the clip on SocketA coolers...
On a sidenote I might add that some of the new coolers that I am now reviewing are using all socket feets...
Take a look at my SocketA Cooling guide to see how it looks and also my thoughts on the clip on SocketA coolers...
On a sidenote I might add that some of the new coolers that I am now reviewing are using all socket feets...
Butterball
Posts: 75 +0
first off i would like to say that
1. shims are always a good idea
2. they are not desinged for heat transfer
3. never got the AC II on the bridges it is bad (hours of cleaning & praying)
4. thought the board mounting is widly used with water cooling
5. i have an extra shim for the xp that is non-conductive if anyone needs one
well i think i has gotten across that for 4-5 buck it is a good idea if nothing esle than to make you sleep (like that ever happens) better. they are not in any way used to transfer heat and some have gaps of 1/2 in on all sides from the core so there should be no themal uptake on that.
most important of all if you do use AC II make sure it is only on the core (i think i smeared it when i put the shim on mine and it sucked)
:dead:
well i think that sum up my contribution
1. shims are always a good idea
2. they are not desinged for heat transfer
3. never got the AC II on the bridges it is bad (hours of cleaning & praying)
4. thought the board mounting is widly used with water cooling
5. i have an extra shim for the xp that is non-conductive if anyone needs one
well i think i has gotten across that for 4-5 buck it is a good idea if nothing esle than to make you sleep (like that ever happens) better. they are not in any way used to transfer heat and some have gaps of 1/2 in on all sides from the core so there should be no themal uptake on that.
most important of all if you do use AC II make sure it is only on the core (i think i smeared it when i put the shim on mine and it sucked)
:dead:
well i think that sum up my contribution
DarkGuarDN
Posts: 11 +0
I didn't read through the last page of posts since there is just too much info, but I've had a good experience and a bad experience with shims. Just make sure that if you get a shim, that you do not get a copper one. they can conduct electricity and short out your CPU. Second, don't use a shim unless you have a clip on your HSF that is hard to get on. I used one with my copper orb and I fried my CPU because the shim kept the HSF from touching the core... so I say it depends on your HSF
Vehementi
Posts: 2,644 +2
What you forgot to do was spread Arctic Silver on the core of the CPU and press the heatsink down on the CPU with the shim on and see if the Arctic Silver changed at all. Then you should have used sandpaper to grind the shim down some.
My clip is very hard to get on. One reason it crushed my CPU :dead:
My clip is very hard to get on. One reason it crushed my CPU :dead:
DarkGuarDN
Posts: 11 +0
yup, that's exactly what I forgot to do. when I got my replacement 1.4t-bird I made sure that the HSF touched the core.... 
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