Star Citizen developers roll back roadmap features due to high user expectations

[blackdreamhunk]

You got that right.

Oh we hear you, we just want you to shut up.

See, this is the "not listening" thing you're doing again. How about you go through my post history and find ONE TIME that I have been positive towards star citizen? Go ahead, I'll wait, because you wont find one.

Did you ever stop to think what you will do when you finally catch your own tail?

are now suggesting I don't have freedom of speech now? I am not allowed to express myself? yes or no answer, please.

Are now saying being scammed out of my money is ok? being lied to as consumer oke now?

 

[Squid Surprise]

So you're calling me a liar? well guess what star citizen is looking like it is going to fail. Chris Roberts can't deliver on all his promises. You admit you refused to listen to me thank you for your confessions

We ARE listening to you... we just don't agree with your conclusions... but... to be fair.. it's really hard to fully comprehend what you are saying... yes, I AM calling your cognitive abilities into question here.

Can you please state, in plain English, exactly what you are hoping to achieve here?

Are you expecting a refund from SC? An apology from them? An apology from Techspot? A set of fairy wings?

None of that is going to happen....

 

[blackdreamhunk]

We ARE listening to you... we just don't agree with your conclusions... but... to be fair.. it's really hard to fully comprehend what you are saying... yes, I AM calling your cognitive abilities into question here.

Can you please state, in plain English, exactly what you are hoping to achieve here?

Are you expecting a refund from SC? An apology from them? An apology from Techspot? A set of fairy wings?

None of that is going to happen....

do you own star citizen? it has been 10 years now that I don't have any more games now. how much longer and how many more years will it take for you to agree with me?

I was lied to about constellation phoenix and the 890 jump. Also star fairer

If you don't agree with me why I am not getting my money back?

So you're saying it is ok for me to be scammed out of my money cheated?

So you agree with me being abuse?

 

[Squid Surprise]

do you own star citizen?

No, because I knew it was a scam from Day 1.

it has been 10 years now that I don't have any more games now.

Well, who's fault is that?

how much longer and how many more years will it take for you to agree with me?

Maybe a million?

If you don't agree with me why I am not getting my money back?

Because I don't work for SC....

So you're saying it is ok for me to be scammed out of my money cheated?

You weren't scammed... you willingly paid for a bunch of crap... buyer beware...

 

[blackdreamhunk]

No, because I knew it was a scam from Day 1.

Well, who's fault is that?

Maybe a million?

Because I don't work for SC....

You weren't scammed... you willingly paid for a bunch of crap... buyer beware...

what country are you from? I guess America? the reason ask is because of laws.

 

[blackdreamhunk]

No, because I knew it was a scam from Day 1.

Well, who's fault is that?

Maybe a million?

Because I don't work for SC....

You weren't scammed... you willingly paid for a bunch of crap... buyer beware...

are you saying Chris Roberts, CIg, TechSpot, and MMORPG are above the law? yes or no?

 

[blackdreamhunk]

Star citizen is a scam or failed project it is only a matter of time before things hit the fan.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

are now suggesting I don't have freedom of speech now? I am not allowed to express myself? yes or no answer, please.

Yes, you have free speech. That doesnt mean we cant rip you apart for throwing garbage into google translate then spitting it into the comment section.

Are now saying being scammed out of my money is ok? being lied to as consumer oke now?

Hey, I have a thought exercise for you. What made you think it was OK to spend $7k on a video game? Video games are usually $60. Even if star citizen was everything it promised, why would spend the price of a good used car or multiple european vacations on it?

You spent the equivelant of 117 PS2 games worth of cash on a single title. Why did you ever think you'd be getting your money's worth?

 

[blackdreamhunk]

Yes, you have free speech. That doesnt mean we cant rip you apart for throwing garbage into google translate then spitting it into the comment section.

Hey, I have a thought exercise for you. What made you think it was OK to spend $7k on a video game? Video games are usually $60. Even if star citizen was everything it promised, why would spend the price of a good used car or multiple european vacations on it?

You spent the equivelant of 117 PS2 games worth of cash on a single title. Why did you ever think you'd be getting your money's worth?

we will see who is right and wrong once star citizen publically fails and I sure it will go t court once it does.

failed road map not delivery date and how many set deadlines did CIg make and not deliver on? I am a paying consumer called a lair.

told to shut up.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

we will see who is right and wrong once star citizen publically fails

See, we are in agreement here. This is what you call "attacking". I really dont understand why you think I support star citizen, can you please explain, in detail?

and I sure it will go t court once it does.

Oh I'm sure somebody will try to sue CI games. I doubt it will go anywhere, because crowdfunding does not entitle you to a finished product. That is the danger of crowdfunding. If you waste thousands on microtransactions for a game, you are not entitled to that money back.

 

[blackdreamhunk]

See, we are in agreement here. This is what you call "attacking". I really dont understand why you think I support star citizen, can you please explain, in detail?

Oh I'm sure somebody will try to sue CI games. I doubt it will go anywhere, because crowdfunding does not entitle you to a finished product. That is the danger of crowdfunding. If you waste thousands on microtransactions for a game, you are not entitled to that money back.

did you know a lot of people can't answer my questions about star citizen and did you know I cyberstalkers who are addicted to comments and questions?

It is my consumer right to ask questions

 

[blackdreamhunk]

I can see that star citizen failing, CIg can't deliver on all of his promises and I see the fat lady taking the stage.
heck CIG can't deliver on all its promises for digital ships like the 890 jump, constellation phoenix and star fairer

 

[blackdreamhunk]

TechSpot and MMORPG turned their back on my sources too.

you can't stand me writing about star citizen tos and what people own digitally because it will be a huge problem for the gaming industry. Great example and well talked about on Bellular News

[HEADING=2]All Your Money, GONE: Gaming Has A MASSIVE Ticking [/HEADING]

I am not free to speak my mind here the experts at silicon valley are lairs!
I m not free to give my honest thoughts.

I am not allowed to give sources or share information or links

 

[Theinsanegamer]

did you know a lot of people can't answer my questions about star citizen

I can see why, considering you cant read and refuse to answer questions

and did you know I cyberstalkers who are addicted to comments and questions?

What did he mean?

It is my consumer right to ask questions

And those questions were answered. You refused to acknowledge those awnsers because they do not follow what you want.

 

[whateversa]

Eve Online is above SC by miles and I'm talking as someone who will go to Eve Fanfest this May. This game shows just how desperate you are getting to find more wild excuses.

Eve was made in about 4 years (from idea to version 1.0) with a small budget and a small team. Crazy right? It's how SC started and how it should have launched sometime between 2015-2018. Make a plan and execute the plan, that's how good management works.

Eve actually launched and over the years it saw many changes to its engine, servers and gameplay. Eve is not know for its stellar management, but comparing it to SC 's management is insulting.

"If you do not have what it takes to break through barriers of what has been done before, you should not involve yourself and stop complaining." - don't know what barriers you are talking about. More ingame interactions? Higher quality models? These are all stupid excuses for the delays.

I don't understand why you think I'm assuming things. There are literally case studies out there on how the SC management is failure (Games Deconstructed has one on youtube I think).

"It's just too complex, please forgive us by filling our wallets with hundreds of millions" - Chris Roberts 2022.

I also thank you for mentioning Eve. It's a good example to destroy your excuses. For example, when you look at the SC community and compare it to Eve's community you'll notice something strange:
1. when Eve devs do something scummy the players get angry (like releasing expensive things on the real money market when the games has bugs that need to be fixed)
2. when SC devs do that, SC players defend such decisions by saying that the money helps the development of the game and that it's normal

TL;DR SC fanboys can't see that they are scammed and actually embrace the absurdity of the current situation all because they dream of a grand game being released sometime in the future. They bought into the "dream" and are now stuck, most being in denial.

You have missed the point about Eve completely. You even compared development times for projects that are vastly different. I was using the example of how things have to update over time regardless of when it is released.

Underestimated, overdue projects are not scams. You still fail to grasp this.

If you don't want to fund a dream game, then get lost and stop complaining. Oh but when it is done one day (before cold fusion is ready), then you'll want to have the right to participate.

You are NOT in the meetings in CIG, you do NOT have the full perspective. You sit on the sidelines like other Youtubers and moan instead of help. You take other people's perspectives as fact as well - I would not be surprised if you believe every conspiracy theory out there as well.

Coders are coding on that project every day. The more complex, the more unforeseen issues will come up.

 

[whateversa]

Star citizen is a scam or failed project it is only a matter of time before things hit the fan.

Speak for yourself. They have not run out of funding yet - thus not a failed project. They'll make it work.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

You have missed the point about Eve completely. You even compared development times for projects that are vastly different. I was using the example of how things have to update over time regardless of when it is released.

Underestimated, overdue projects are not scams. You still fail to grasp this.

If you don't want to fund a dream game, then get lost and stop complaining.

You are NOT in the meetings in CIG, you do NOT have the full perspective.

EVE is the other side of the coin.

EVE started small, accomplished it's goals, then released. After this, it built upon what it has made previously and developed new additions alongside community feedback. they slowly expanded the scope of their project as their skills increased.

SC stared small, then immediately expanded it's scope as money came in by the truck load. As the project fell to inevitable delays, rather then focusing on finishing the project, Cris Roberts continued to pump up the game, adding new features to the scope of an already bloated project and enabling new systems for the exclusive purpose of making more money. During this process, he furthe renriched himself with a $2 million house, two lamborghinis, and later a yacht. Cloud imperium is his source of income, so guess where the money for such things came from. His wife also works at cloud imperium, so if she bought them, same boat. In reacton to the community becoming antsy over slow updates and constant delay sfor things that chris continually insists are almost done, CI has now obfuscated their progress reports.

This is not something you do when you are confident in your product and your work. this is something you do when you can no longer discreetly cover up your actual work.

An underestimated overdue project is not a scam. Constantly finding new ways to suck up money while pushing back promised updates that are "nearly ready" multiple times, and then obfuscating the work you are doing, is.

If you buy a wallet from a street vendor that turns out to be a knockoff, that is a scam. you still got a product, but it is not what was promised. Star citizen is in the same boat. The product that ws originally promised was never delivered, and now you are getting something else entirely. That is a scam.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Speak for yourself. They have not run out of funding yet - thus not a failed project. They'll make it work.

Actually they did run out of funding. Multiple times. That's why they've had big drives to raise more capital and stated selling digital ships and plots of land in a game that isnt even in beta yet.

 

[whateversa]

EVE is the other side of the coin.

EVE started small, accomplished it's goals, then released. After this, it built upon what it has made previously and developed new additions alongside community feedback. they slowly expanded the scope of their project as their skills increased.

SC stared small, then immediately expanded it's scope as money came in by the truck load. As the project fell to inevitable delays, rather then focusing on finishing the project, Cris Roberts continued to pump up the game, adding new features to the scope of an already bloated project and enabling new systems for the exclusive purpose of making more money. During this process, he furthe renriched himself with a $2 million house, two lamborghinis, and later a yacht. Cloud imperium is his source of income, so guess where the money for such things came from. His wife also works at cloud imperium, so if she bought them, same boat. In reacton to the community becoming antsy over slow updates and constant delay sfor things that chris continually insists are almost done, CI has now obfuscated their progress reports.

This is not something you do when you are confident in your product and your work. this is something you do when you can no longer discreetly cover up your actual work.

An underestimated overdue project is not a scam. Constantly finding new ways to suck up money while pushing back promised updates that are "nearly ready" multiple times, and then obfuscating the work you are doing, is.

If you buy a wallet from a street vendor that turns out to be a knockoff, that is a scam. you still got a product, but it is not what was promised. Star citizen is in the same boat. The product that ws originally promised was never delivered, and now you are getting something else entirely. That is a scam.

So much to respond to here, but limited time. But first, where is the evidence that he OWNS two Lamborghinis or even an expensive yacht. Owning a small yacht or even RENTING one is not abnormal for someone in his position. Many CEOs and VPs around the world make absurd salaries, but I'd like you to show how his income is not industry standard? Do you think he should pay his coders rubbish salaries because its crowd funded?

If you buy a wallet from a street vendor - you are buying an already produced wallet. If you are buying an unfinished software project that is trying to do what has never been done before (and most people don't truly understand the limits being broken here), you should be wise enough to know that it might not be on time or go well. It's like saying investments are scams whenever they don't perform well in the first few years.

Yes Chris has probably made many management mistakes, like many other people. Doesn't make it a scam. It would only be a scam if he shut CIG down today.

I see software projects that are 100x simpler go massively delayed by years... but lets just nail these guys...

 

[Squid Surprise]

what country are you from? I guess America? the reason ask is because of laws.

Canada

are you saying Chris Roberts, CIg, TechSpot, and MMORPG are above the law? yes or no?

No

You are arguing with the wrong people...We AGREE that SC is a scam... what we don't agree with is your purchase of $7000 worth of useless stuff...

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!?!?

If you were an investor, that would be one thing... you'd have a contract, and be entitled to a certain % of this game's profits (assuming it is ever finished) and would be righteously angry that the game hasn't been published yet...

But you paid $7000 for a bunch of game crap... even if the game was finished on time and was totally awesome, it wouldn't be worth a fraction of that cost...

So what do you expect to gain here?

 

[wiyosaya]

You know, it is possible that both this things are true and this isn't a dichotomy: People who invested in the game were naiive and lacking in judgement while Roberts, gaming press and the entire hype machine also inflated everyone's hopes on a project that was self-evidently too ambitious and was never going to deliver: It's not like what Roberts did was new the gaming press knew about con artists like Molyneux or Richard Garriot for many, many years before Star Citizen started it's crowd funding.

Should people be more careful with their money? Sure.

Should gaming press also refrain from basically giving a system designed to scam people out of money, kickstarter (And indiegogo and such) a lot of free publicity whenever they need clicks for their site and don't care about the consequences of greatly boosting these scams? Also yes.

I think there is some fallacy in your argument. As of yet, there has been no legal action by any public entity like a DA or the FTC in the US, or the equivalent in any other country. Yes, there have been court cases, but these are more along the lines of small claims court - I.e., people have sued for their money back, but they are not legal charges of Fraud, or anything else, for that matter.

Personally, I think the biggest threat to whether or not the game ever gets finished is that some public, legal entity like a DA or the FTC in the US, sues on behalf of all that are claiming they got scammed, and a summary judgement is entertained where RSI/CIG has to stop development in order to pay a fine/or some "investors" back.

Until a public judgement of Fraud is made, people claiming its a scam are simply spreading rumor and adding fuel to the publicity fire, IMO.

I "invested" $400 to the till, and there is a part of me that is not happy with what is going on, but $400 is where I stopped.

In this day and age, especially with a project like this that is well-known to be controversial, people, IMO, have to own their decisions to spend money on it. Claiming "I got scammed" is really nothing more, IMO, than saying, I knew the risks, and I put money into the project anyway and I am not happy with what I got. No one has forced anyone to invest anything into this game. It's not like Roberts/RSI/CIG go around to people's houses and force them at gunpoint to contribute - or else.

However, to me, it seems like there quite a few people out there, even those with no first-hand knowledge of the game, who are willing to invest, fully-knowing the risks, not get what they want, and yet claim that "it was THEIR FAULT I invested my money and was not happy". If you lost your money, own it. When you contribute, you sign a legal agreement.

That said, I agree with the comments about feature creep and development of a scope that is beyond what they thought they could accomplish within their stated goals. That is a risk of ALL development projects.

 

[wiyosaya]

So what do you expect to gain here?

To me, it sounds like this user was just after bragging rights. Not unlike others on this site, one, we know so well with their 3090s.

 

[Squid Surprise]

To me, it sounds like this user was just after bragging rights. Not unlike others on this site, one, we know so well with their 3090s.

Heheheh... well, at least with a 3090, you get something tangible (even if overpriced)... For $7000, I'd want to have some shares in the company...

 

[wiyosaya]

One it started of as a scam than later on they started to work on it to keep the money going.

IMO, that's hilarious. They started work on it to keep the money going? You do realize that they have to pay their staff, yes?

 

[wiyosaya]

did you know a lot of people can't answer my questions about star citizen and did you know I cyberstalkers who are addicted to comments and questions?

It is my consumer right to ask questions

This is not the right place to ask those questions. You are asking people who have absolutely no LEGAL responsibility for CIG/CE/RSI about the game, and you expect some sort of meaningful answer?? WTF dude. You are in the wrong forum, and everyone here, investors in the game as well as those who have formed an immutable position that the game is a scam, are tired of your SPAM.

I've said this before, many, many months ago - TAKE YOUR CASE TO COURT. You will not get anything by SPAMMING this forum with your continual "I got ripped off" moaning.

At the risk of getting this post pulled, I'll ask why do you call yourself "blackdreamhunk"? Is this some sort of egotistical moniker?

EDIT: I don't give a crap if you answer or not. These are questions that I think you should reflect on.