Switzerland is installing solar panels in train tracks

[DragonSlayer101]

What just happened? Swiss startup Sun-Ways is installing solar panels on railway tracks in Switzerland. The panels are reportedly being rolled out 'like a carpet' in the gap between the tracks near the Buttes train station following the go-ahead from the country's Federal Office of Transport.

Interestingly, Sun-Ways isn't the first company to have started rolling out solar panels on railway tracks. As reported by Fast Company, Italian renewable energy company Greenrail and British tech firm Bankset Energy are also working on similar technologies, although the experiment in Switzerland is notable for two reasons.

First, Sun-Ways is using standard-sized panels, while the other two companies have been using smaller panels to fit them between the railway tracks. Second, the entire panel-laying process has been automated by Sun-Ways, whereby a specially-built train is 'unrolling' the panels on the tracks rather than human workers doing it manually.

The pilot project, which is expected to be completed this summer at a cost of $560,000, will see Sun-Ways use a regular train to lay down 60 solar panels on a 140-foot stretch of railway track near the city of Neuchâtel. That's not much, but it's a start, and one that can potentially lead to bigger and better things in the years to come.

To start off, 100 percent of the electricity generated by the project will power local households, but in the future, some of the power could be used to run the trains. According to Sun-Ways co-founder Baptiste Danichert, covering the entire 5,000km of the Swiss railroad network with solar panels could generate up to 1 gigawatt of energy per year, which is enough to power around 750,000 homes.

For the pilot program, Sun-Ways is using a regular train retrofitted with special tools to lay the panels. In the future, the company plans to use a custom train with two carriages – one to store the panels and another to install them. The panels are expected to stay on the tracks unless they need maintenance or repair. In that case, the same train will once again run on that stretch of the track to uninstall them.

While most environmentalists are happy with the increased adoption of renewable energy, some are reacting to the development more cautiously. According to Bill Nussey, the founder of the clean energy advocacy group Freeing Energy Project, the experiment will only be a success if it can "overcome a number of big challenges, including debris from trains, the geographic distance between panels and the point of interconnect to the grid."

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/98944-switzerland-installing-solar-panels-gap-between-train-tracks.html

 

[YouShallNotPass]

How do they stop people from stealing the panels?

 

[Jilano]

How do they stop people from stealing the panels?

Let me preface by saying I don't mean the following sarcastically: Best ways to prevent people from stealing that? Eduction and having a liveable wage. If your population isn't struggling every day, they won't have the incentive to go risk stealing something like that.

Regarding the project itself, I'm curious how long the panels will last. Are they more at risk of being broken as opposed to those on roofs?

 

[someOtherGuy]

Let me preface by saying I don't mean the following sarcastically: Best ways to prevent people from stealing that? Eduction and having a liveable wage. If your population isn't struggling every day, they won't have the incentive to go risk stealing something like that.

Uhmm, that's just a theory, I have another one: there will always be "shameless" people, regardless of the economic situation in the country, that will want to "get it easy" and not work. So far I haven't seen the counter example (the utopia that you suggested here). Most of the time this is not about "the need", but a way of life.

Regarding the project itself, I'm curious how long the panels will last. Are they more at risk of being broken as opposed to those on roofs?

Lots of vibrations I presume, and a loose part on a wagon might break kilometers of panels. Doesn't sound safe all around.

 

[wiyosaya]

Uhmm, that's just a theory, I have another one: there will always be "shameless" people, regardless of the economic situation in the country, that will want to "get it easy" and not work. So far I haven't seen the counter example (the utopia that you suggested here). Most of the time this is not about "the need", but a way of life.

Interesting theory.

Lots of vibrations I presume, and a loose part on a wagon might break kilometers of panels. Doesn't sound safe all around.

That's why its an experiment. Rather than supposing various failure mechanisms and saying something along the lines of "That's no good. We can't do that. That will never work because of (supposition) without evidence", they are approaching this in a scientific manner and testing it, in an experiment, to see how well it works.

If their experiment uncovers significant problems, I am sure they will evaluate what, if anything, can be done to remedy those problems, and if they cannot remedy the problems, then it will not make sense for them to continue.

There were other, similar projects mentioned, and I would not be surprised if they reviewed those projects and the problems they encountered before they undertook their experiment.

 

[ScottPalmer]

I think this makes sense as an experiment, but see a lot of problems like snow and debris interfering with the amount of light reaching the panels. Vibrations from passing trains could also be a problem. I do like that they are thinking creatively, and hope you will report on how this experiment turns out.

 

[Underdog]

Given the ever increasing cost of energy production (and consumption) by conventional means we need to come up with new ideas sooner rather than later. This is one approach that might bear fruit. Keep them coming lads. The problems just might turn out to be easily solved.
Just sitting waiting for some revolutionary scientific breakthrough for energy production is wasting time.

 

[Tantor]

The engineering is not a problem. The problem is that many of these schemes are marginally effective at reducing carbon. Look at EVs. The average EV on the showroom floor comes with a huge carbon footprint, due to the dirty battery manufacturing processes. At present, it takes about six years to break even with an average IC car.

I would wager that the total carbon footprint of these railroad solar cells will be very large.

 

[PEnnn]

How do they stop people from stealing the panels?

There is a Chinese saying: A thief thinks everyone else is also a thief.

You can interpret this anyway you want.

 

[someOtherGuy]

There is a Chinese saying: A thief thinks everyone else is also a thief.

You can interpret this anyway you want.

When you're engineering a solution you should take into consideration as many risk factors as you can think of. The original question was an actual technical question, the answer was rather philosophical, which means that we don't really know how they're securing these expensive panels: welded? some kind of locks? just laying there and betting on human decency?

 

[BuckarooBonzaii]

It makes a nice walkway. Sometimes I think that all the hype about reducing carbon emission clouds judgement and practicality just to make the news.

 

[VariableSpike]

Anyone with common sense should clock why this is dumb, but here is a vid that basically rips this idea apart point by point

 

[GeforcerFX]

The engineering is not a problem. The problem is that many of these schemes are marginally effective at reducing carbon. Look at EVs. The average EV on the showroom floor comes with a huge carbon footprint, due to the dirty battery manufacturing processes. At present, it takes about six years to break even with an average IC car.

I would wager that the total carbon footprint of these railroad solar cells will be very large.

That depends on the car, something like a large battery tesla or F-150 lightning will take around 5 years to break even. Smaller cars with smaller batteries can break even in as little as 2 years. The average ICE car stays on the road for 17 years now. They estimate the average EV would be looking at around 15 years, maybe more if we can improve Lithium iron phosphate's density since it gets insanely higher cycle life. The major variable is what is there power produced from? In the USA good chance your using some natural gas power at any given point in time, which while better than coal still produces CO2. Prob the largest effect of large amounts of EV's or alternate fuel cars in an area is local pollution, way less smog and less of the health effects that can cause for the local population. But that is also variable as some places have much worse smog problems due to Geography and weather patterns throughout the year. Next big pollution issue to tackle for local areas is tire pollution.

 

[dangh]

When you're engineering a solution you should take into consideration as many risk factors as you can think of. The original question was an actual technical question, the answer was rather philosophical, which means that we don't really know how they're securing these expensive panels: welded? some kind of locks? just laying there and betting on human decency?

This is Switzerland we're talking about. This means society is mature and very strict about rules and property. It surely wouldn't work in countries like SA or US, but would work in countries where is a proper level of education and qol, like nordic countries, Japan, Korea and so on.
In Switzerland if someone see you speeding, passers by take note of your reg number, call the
police, and you _will_ get fined. And noone is abusing that either. And yes, I know it is difficult to imagine in many places, but again, simple solutions - educate and protect - are most effective to manage population.

 

[wiyosaya]

The engineering is not a problem. The problem is that many of these schemes are marginally effective at reducing carbon. Look at EVs. The average EV on the showroom floor comes with a huge carbon footprint, due to the dirty battery manufacturing processes. At present, it takes about six years to break even with an average IC car.

I would wager that the total carbon footprint of these railroad solar cells will be very large.

I don't know where you are getting your (dis)information from, but it is not in agreement with a majority of sources. For instance:

Factbox: Lifetime carbon emissions of electric vehicles vs gasoline cars

Reuters analyzed data generated by an Argonne National Laboratory model to determine at what point a typical electric vehicle (EV) becomes cleaner than an equivalent gasoline car in terms of its lifetime carbon footprint.

www.reuters.com

Electric cars vs. gasoline cars: Which is better for climate change? » Yale Climate Connections

Electric cars already have a smaller carbon footprint than gasoline vehicles, and the grid is getting cleaner all the time.

yaleclimateconnections.org

Here's an interesting one dispelling multiple myths in one shot - https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

Yes, Electric Vehicles Are Better for the Environment in 95 Percent of the World

New research says not to believe the myth that EVs increase carbon emissions.

www.popularmechanics.com

I could just keep going, but I think I've made my point.

 

[masaaya4]

Interesting idea, but probably not realistic.

the biggest issue with this would be railroad maintenance - if you have to inspect the railroad track and replace sleepers for example, you will need to add an additional step of getting the company to remove their solar panels.

railroad tracks are also highly temperature sensitive, high temperature causes problems with metal expansion and can in extreme cases cause lower train speeds. what is the impact to have solar panels that capture sun to make electricity and outputs heat as a by product?

I would not be concerned about loose parts of trains causing problems, if something is hanging that low it will also be hitting the cross rails in railroad switches, and at that point the part will be knocked off or you have a derailment anyway.

what I would be concerned about is how these panels manage the European Train Control System (ECTS) modules installed in trains. these signalling modules installed below trains have such high radiation (electric radiation?) that is it strongly recommended that people do not go below the train while they are active(like repair work). I bet they will destroy these panels over time.

 

[LandroverS1]

I think it would be better to place on the roofs of the trains. A lot safer place.

 

[someOtherGuy]

This is Switzerland we're talking about. This means society is mature and very strict about rules and property. It surely wouldn't work in countries like SA or US, but would work in countries where is a proper level of education and qol, like nordic countries, Japan, Korea and so on.
In Switzerland if someone see you speeding, passers by take note of your reg number, call the
police, and you _will_ get fined. And noone is abusing that either. And yes, I know it is difficult to imagine in many places, but again, simple solutions - educate and protect - are most effective to manage population.

That level of policing sounds like a nightmare, not that hard to understand how those societies have so high suicide levels, although apprently you and the other people there feel good about it so to each its own.

 

[dangh]

That level of policing sounds like a nightmare, not that hard to understand how those societies have so high suicide levels, although apprently you and the other people there feel good about it so to each its own.

First of all, what level of policing? There is a law, and law is to follow. Are you complaining that law breakers are fined? That makes no sense - if you're speeding, that is your fault, not 'level of policing'... I feel weird to have explain base of society rules...
Second - what do you mean by 'those societies' and 'high suicide levels'? Comparing to what? Switzerland have 9.8 suicides per 100.000 inhabitants, while USA have nearly 50% more: 14.04 per 100.000 inhabitants... so which exactly 'less policing' country you want to compare here? South Africa?

 

[someOtherGuy]

First of all, what level of policing? There is a law, and law is to follow. Are you complaining that law breakers are fined? That makes no sense - if you're speeding, that is your fault, not 'level of policing'... I feel weird to have explain base of society rules...

You explained that "if someone see you speeding, passers by take note of your reg number, call the police, and you _will_ get fined", aka every person has police powers, and you also claimed that it is not being abused (yeah, right). Unless you're overselling, this sounds like pulled from 1984, and a very depressing society to live in, if you value your privacy and freedom, that is (also assuming that this kind of policing is not limited to "speeders").

 

[neeyik]

Stick to the news topic, please.

 

[dangh]

You explained that "if someone see you speeding, passers by take note of your reg number, call the police, and you _will_ get fined", aka every person has police powers, and you also claimed that it is not being abused (yeah, right). Unless you're overselling, this sounds like pulled from 1984, and a very depressing society to live in, if you value your privacy and freedom, that is (also assuming that this kind of policing is not limited to "speeders").

There are strict regulations to that, too. I wrote pasers by - there have to be at least 2 independent parties and police might use cctv footage or whatever the process is to follow. This information is publicly available and you have always option to appeal. Which probably is good to have, as fines in Switzerland depends on your income, so you can pay a lot. Anyway, all is googleable, you might find yourself if that is 'orvell world' or simply matured society - my visit there were really good and never had any issues (all good as long as you follow the law).

@neeyik - we do. We are exploring validity of such investment in given country wondering if placing expensive stuff on rails is a good choice or it would end with people enjoying free panels...

 

[someOtherGuy]

Stick to the news topic, please.

@dangh is basically describing the society requirements for a solution like this to be viable, from a security standpoint (very strong requirements that are labeled "mature").

 

[Mr Majestyk]

I wonder if the Swiss government were railroaded into this decision or if it was the idea of a person with a one track mind?