Tomb Raider Tested, Benchmarked

First dig and then justify -for some above rushed complainers....lol

and Steve is right on money

tressfx requires massive compute parralel power and only designed for this gen top model cards,even previous gen top models may struggle to deliver good framerates with tressfx on

http://www.vg247.com/2013/02/26/amds-tressfx-hair-tech-unveiled-tomb-raider-used-as-demo/

and this words came directly from the mouth of TR development team member-

tressfxonlyfortopcards.png
 
Well TressFX is still very new and it will take some time for efficiency to improve. That said the results right now are amazing, its a very cool effect. Given how much is involved in rendering hair in this kind of detail I don't imagine it was a technology designed for anything less than the most extreme GPUs.
Makes sense! I look forward to it's optimizations. I don't want my characters running around bald due to glitches :p
 
I wish I knew what you were on about half the time :S

I'll try again then since you're having trouble.

You say you have experienced a performance problem with DoF on nVIDIA GPU's, correct? You ignored the link I posted so I'll just take your word for it and agree the problem is solely with DoF. Assuming that, you run your little test and it shows a GTX 680 being outmatched by a 7870, which should NEVER happen. So after that, you follow up by saying, "for now", buy AMD.

And my first thoughts are, um, aren't you forgetting something? What about nVIDIA? Why isn't this guy telling his readers that nVIDIA and Digital Creations have to be working on a new driver as we speak, since the very poor performance of the nVIDIA cards is obvious and unacceptable? Instead, he jumps right to, "for now, [forget about nVIDIA and] buy AMD". Really?! Buy AMD for how long? A month? TWO months? Getting it now? God I hope so.

You are a tech journalist, yet you have only given half the story. That is my problem with this article... which I mentioned in my very first post. How you got lost is beyond me.

Still lost?
What is/what do you think nVIDIA and Digital Creations is doing about this, and how long do you think it will be until the issue is fully resolved? When you come up with an answer, update your article with it.

Thank you.

*UPDATE*
Oh looky here!
Four days ago, TR got it right. And your article was posted three days after theirs. Interesting...

tressfxonlyfortopcards.png


The moral of the story is, for half the story go to TechSpot, and for the other half, go to TechReport.
 
And my first thought is, um, aren't you forgetting something? What about nVIDIA? Why isn't this guy telling his readers that nVIDIA and Digital Creations have to be working on a new driver as we speak, since the very poor performance of the nVIDIA cards is obvious and unacceptable? Instead, he jumps right to, "for now, [forget about nVIDIA and] buy AMD". Really?! Buy AMD for how long? A month? TWO months? Getting it now? God I hope so.
Why are you expecting him to know the moves Nvidia plans to make? Sure, we HOPE Nvidia is working on a driver. Because, it is obviously a problem. But, getting mad that he didn't provide us with false hope is ridiculous. I don't he is going to report on information that isn't clear / confirmed. Instead, he provided readers with a suggestion for people who wanted to play the game right now, not when Nvidia releases a driver.


What is/what do you think nVIDIA and Digital Creations is doing about this, and how long do you think it will be until the issue is fully resolved? When you come up with an answer, update your article with it.
This is a review about Tomb raider not Nvidia drivers.
 
I know on the first page they said no changes to the presets were made however I would've loved to see one test done with everything cranked to the max, especially since the only setting you can still increase on Ultimate is FXAA to either 2x or 4x SSAA.
 
Why are you expecting him to know the moves Nvidia plans to make? Sure, we HOPE Nvidia is working on a driver. Because, it is obviously a problem. But, getting mad that he didn't provide us with false hope is ridiculous. I don't he is going to report on information that isn't clear / confirmed. Instead, he provided readers with a suggestion for people who wanted to play the game right now, not when Nvidia releases a driver.


This is a review about Tomb raider not Nvidia drivers.

Not to him. Steve does great, detailed reviews/tests. I enjoy them more than just about any site.
 
And my first thought is, um, aren't you forgetting something? What about nVIDIA? Why isn't this guy telling his readers that nVIDIA and Digital Creations have to be working on a new driver as we speak, since the very poor performance of the nVIDIA cards is obvious and unacceptable? Instead, he jumps right to, "for now, [forget about nVIDIA and] buy AMD". Really?! Buy AMD for how long? A month? TWO months? Getting it now? God I hope so.
Why are you expecting him to know the moves Nvidia plans to make? Sure, we HOPE Nvidia is working on a driver. Because, it is obviously a problem. But, getting mad that he didn't provide us with false hope is ridiculous. I don't he is going to report on information that isn't clear / confirmed. Instead, he provided readers with a suggestion for people who wanted to play the game right now, not when Nvidia releases a driver.
What is/what do you think nVIDIA and Digital Creations is doing about this, and how long do you think it will be until the issue is fully resolved? When you come up with an answer, update your article with it.
This is a review about Tomb raider not Nvidia drivers.



ack! I edit way too much.
 
Hahahanoobs I can speak for myself, I just don’t think it’s worth my time and effort. You have taken something incredibly small and blown it up into something it isn’t. I’m not sure where you get off saying it was easy for me to blame it on DOF like I did no testing? We looked into what was holding the GeForce cards back using the GTX 680 and GTX Titan.

Having disabled Tessellation this only improved performance by 4fps, all the other settings such as textures and detail levels made no difference when backing them off one setting. Then when we turned DOF down from ultra to high we saw the same kind of performance from the GeForce cards as we did in the high quality tests. It was not TressFX at all, it was not Tesselation, there is an issue with DOF.

If you don’t believe this and feel the need to call us liars then what the hell are you doing here reading our content? We clearly cannot be trusted and our main goal is to steer readers towards the red team.

I have read other articles on other websites and done a great deal of research on the matter. The fact is we have done more testing than most of the sites out there. Also for your information I completed this article mid last week, well before any patches and before there was much known about the game.

Finally when did we even say you should buy an AMD graphics card to play Tomb Raider?

We concluded by saying...

Those wanting to play on ultra at 1920x1200 or so will want at least an HD 7870 or its equivalent, which should be a GTX 660 if you change DOF from ultra to high. Although Tomb Raider can cripple our best gear when it's cranked up, it's worth stressing that the game still looks great on the high quality preset and you can expect a stable 60fps with relatively inexpensive cards like the HD 7850 or the GTX 660.
 
This is a review about Tomb raider not Nvidia drivers.
A gaming review where cards are benchmarked yet not include drivers is impossible.

I think what hahahanoobs is getting at, is recommending one card over another should not be done, if you can easily see performance changes within the near future. When I read that line (For now, stick with AMD/nVidia) I see it speaking to those who can switch cards depending on which game they are playing. I don't read that line as if it is speaking to the consumer, which are forced to make a decision on the card they buy.
 
A gaming review where cards are benchmarked yet not include drivers is impossible.
Of course! However, I don't see a reason to criticize the review because he didn't expand on Nvidia's position behind their driver problems. I think what he included was sufficient enough information. Especially given the time the review was being written. There was no need for a in-depth analysis on the subject in this review.
 
Hypothetical situation which I don’t like to do but here we go anyway. So let’s say you are a massive fan of the Tomb Raider series and you have been holding off on an upgrade for the release of the 2013 title, based on the evidence which card should be recommended?

Radeon HD 7970 vs. GeForce GTX 680
Radeon HD 7950 vs. GeForce GTX 670 or 660 Ti
Radeon HD 7870 vs. GeForce GTX 660

If you look at the ultimate performance data at 1920x1200 the choice is pretty clear. But if you look at the high quality performance at the same resolution the choice is less obvious. The high quality results reflect where the Nvidia cards should be when using the ultimate quality settings after a driver update or two.

It seems obvious that Nvidia is going to fix performance when using the ultimate quality settings, by how much I don’t know. But if we go off the high quality performance which I believe will go unchanged by future driver updates when the Nvidia cards will perform quite well. This is all very hypothetical and I cannot make recommendations on hypothetical situations. I can only tell you what is fact right now and take a guess at what the future might hold, both of which we did in that article.
 
Hahahanoobs I can speak for myself, I just don’t think it’s worth my time and effort. You have taken something incredibly small and blown it up into something it isn’t. I’m not sure where you get off saying it was easy for me to blame it on DOF like I did no testing? We looked into what was holding the GeForce cards back using the GTX 680 and GTX Titan.

Because nVIDIA, TR, and Fudzilla say otherwise.
http://techreport.com/news/24463/nvidia-acknowledges-tomb-raider-performance-issues
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/30686-pc-tomb-raider’s-performance-issues-being-looked-into

Having disabled Tessellation this only improved performance by 4fps, all the other settings such as textures and detail levels made no difference when backing them off one setting. Then when we turned DOF down from ultra to high we saw the same kind of performance from the GeForce cards as we did in the high quality tests. It was not TressFX at all, it was not Tesselation, there is an issue with DOF.

Are you still on about that Tess comment I made? Sheesh. Are you sure you do research?

[FONT=arial]Game crashes w/ tessellation enabled on Nvidia cards ... - GameFAQs[/FONT]


[FONT=arial]www.gamefaqs.comPCAction AdventureModernShare[/FONT]
[FONT=arial]10 posts - 4 Mar[/FONT]
[FONT=arial]For[/FONT][FONT=arial]Tomb Raider[/FONT][FONT=arial]on the PC, a GameFAQs message board topic[/FONT][FONT=arial]...[/FONT][FONT=arial]On my gtx 690 this game only[/FONT][FONT=arial]crashes[/FONT][FONT=arial]with[/FONT][FONT=arial]tessellation[/FONT][FONT=arial]active.[/FONT][FONT=arial]...[/FONT][FONT=arial]It's not a big deal, mostly because in every game, having my other 680 Classified on[/FONT][FONT=arial]caused[/FONT][FONT=arial]...[/FONT]

You sir, just got served. I was right telling that guy to try turning it off to stop the crashes. For some reason, you think it does nothing tor crashes, because your system didn't crash because of it. Pretty damn foolish to think your computer represents everyone else's. You got the shortest straw and that's how you ended up with this test, isn't it Steve?

I never said their wasn't an issue with DoF. I and the links I posted are telling you it goes beyond that. Read them, because days before your article, these were already hitting the internet, and your article didn't reference any of the content in them. THAT is my problem.

If you don’t believe this and feel the need to call us liars then what the hell are you doing here reading our content? We clearly cannot be trusted and our main goal is to steer readers towards the red team.

Trying to correct you. The site is decent, but it could be better. Hence the decision to put in a comment section. Or are you saying your comment section is only for praise and worshiping the writers here?

I have read other articles on other websites and done a great deal of research on the matter. The fact is we have done more testing than most of the sites out there. Also for your information I completed this article mid last week, well before any patches and before there was much known about the game.

Your testing? lol you just started putting in minimum framerates, while everyone else has moved onto frame times and latency, and you think your testing methods trump anyone elses? That's funny. The sites are getting the information from nVIDIA and Crystal Dynamics (not Creative w/e I wrote before) directly. I could care less about either of your tests. No testing you do will trump nVIDIA's and CD's testing.

As far as you doing the article last week, and you now being caught up, an update to the article will come shortly I imagine? It's only good journalism to do so since the story is in a huge thumbnail on your homepage, and not buried and forgotten.

I’m not sure where you get off saying it was easy for me to blame it on DOF like I did no testing? We looked into what was holding the GeForce cards back using the GTX 680 and GTX Titan.

Because it clearly was easy, and congrats! You tested a game that nVIDIA got the code for AFTER it was released! YAY! They specifically say their are multiple issues that users have and are still having. Read the articles I posted and the ones you read again, because you're missing something.

Screw all the stuff up there you thought I was saying. This is what ALL my comments were about:

You say nVIDIA has an issue with DoF.
You FAIL to go any deeper into the reason, other than to say DoF is the cause which is not proven completely.

You say a GTX 680 performs worse than a 7870.
You FAIL to even flinch. How did that not set off a red flag? Oh right, you already diagnosed it as DoF, while nVIDIA and Crystal Dynamics are obviously confused running around thinking its multiple issues with the game. You did manage a "Buy AMD" campaign though.

You say, "for now" buy AMD.
You FAIL to say for how long.

And after reading your reply:
You say you read the articles after publishing this one.
You FAIL to update your article with that information from nVIDIA themselves, or make any reference since reading them to me here in the comments. It seems you are quite stuck on DoF being THE cause.

You are convinced it's DoF.
You FAIL to prove it. Yes I believe you lost performance with it at Max. But their could be and probably is an underlying issue affecting it, but you have already made the conclusion before Crystal Dynamics and nVIDIA have, so if things don't work out for you at TechSpot, you most likely have a job troubleshooting and diagnosing at nVIDIA since you are better at it than they are.

Please update your article with the news you received after publishing it.
 
Hahahanoobs you are as arrogant as your name suggests. At no point did we say “buy AMD” that just never happened. We said for now AMD looks like the better choice but said through driver updates Nvidia is likely to improve performance. That is pretty much the story right there, as I said before you are taking nothing and trying to turn it into something.
 
A gaming review where cards are benchmarked yet not include drivers is impossible.

I think what hahahanoobs is getting at, is recommending one card over another should not be done, if you can easily see performance changes within the near future. When I read that line (For now, stick with AMD/nVidia) I see it speaking to those who can switch cards depending on which game they are playing. I don't read that line as if it is speaking to the consumer, which are forced to make a decision on the card they buy.


OMG THANK YOU! and FINALLY!!!!
This guy gets what I'm saying. I could of swore I had self-encryption turned off.
 
Hahahanoobs you are as arrogant as your name suggests. At no point did we say “buy AMD” that just never happened. We said for now AMD looks like the better choice but said through driver updates Nvidia is likely to improve performance. That is pretty much the story right there, as I said before you are taking nothing and trying to turn it into something.

Really? I don't see it here where it should be:
For now, those wanting to play Tomb Raider are far better off with an AMD solution as the HD 7970 GHz Edition was able to deliver more consistent performance than the GTX Titan and it offered substantially better results than the GTX 680, which ranked lower than the HD 7870.

^Nope, don't see it. Don't see it in the conclusion either. Unless you meant the part where you tell existing nVIDIA users to wait for drivers, but that can't be it because that isn't what we're talking about.
 
This is the last time I am going to bother replying to you about this. I have no problem with this statement…

“For now, those wanting to play Tomb Raider are far better off with an AMD solution as the HD 7970 GHz Edition was able to deliver more consistent performance than the GTX Titan and it offered substantially better results than the GTX 680, which ranked lower than the HD 7870.”

It was based on fact and those facts were showed directly above that quote.

On a side note I don’t understand how the performance issue isn’t caused by DOF. As we explained having set the quality preset to ultimate and then individually disabling or lowering each setting, running the test again and then restoring it to the ultimate value before trying the next setting we found DOF was the only setting that had a real impact on performance. The GTX Titan was 30% faster with DOF turned from ultra to normal at 1920x1200, no other setting accounted for more than a 5% increase.
 
Hypothetical situation which I don’t like to do but here we go anyway. So let’s say you are a massive fan of the Tomb Raider series and you have been holding off on an upgrade for the release of the 2013 title, based on the evidence which card should be recommended?

Radeon HD 7970 vs. GeForce GTX 680
Radeon HD 7950 vs. GeForce GTX 670 or 660 Ti
Radeon HD 7870 vs. GeForce GTX 660

If you look at the ultimate performance data at 1920x1200 the choice is pretty clear. But if you look at the high quality performance at the same resolution the choice is less obvious. The high quality results reflect where the Nvidia cards should be when using the ultimate quality settings after a driver update or two.

It seems obvious that Nvidia is going to fix performance when using the ultimate quality settings, by how much I don’t know. But if we go off the high quality performance which I believe will go unchanged by future driver updates when the Nvidia cards will perform quite well. This is all very hypothetical and I cannot make recommendations on hypothetical situations. I can only tell you what is fact right now and take a guess at what the future might hold, both of which we did in that article.

The bottom line is you didn't think to use your PC gaming expertise to even try to reassure potential nVIDIA buyers reading your article to maybe tough it out a bit longer if they can. The article was about performance, not what card you should buy if you can't wait for nVIDIA.

This is the last time I am going to bother replying to you about this. I have no problem with this statement…

“For now, those wanting to play Tomb Raider are far better off with an AMD solution as the HD 7970 GHz Edition was able to deliver more consistent performance than the GTX Titan and it offered substantially better results than the GTX 680, which ranked lower than the HD 7870.”

*sigh*
The problem isn't with what you said, it's what you failed to add after it.

It was based on fact and those facts were showed directly above that quote.

On a side note I don’t understand how the performance issue isn’t caused by DOF. As we explained having set the quality preset to ultimate and then individually disabling or lowering each setting, running the test again and then restoring it to the ultimate value before trying the next setting we found DOF was the only setting that had a real impact on performance. The GTX Titan was 30% faster with DOF turned from ultra to normal at 1920x1200, no other setting accounted for more than a 5% increase.

*sigh*
nVIDIA got the code late. It's common knowledge now. You basically tested an unfinished and unoptimized driver. DoF can and probably is the cause... right now. But without a patch and/or optimized driver (they are feverishly working on as we speak), you cannot say that is the SOLE issue. If it was it would be a quick fix, and nVIDIA certainly isn't going to blow up an issue with DoF, by saying their are MULTIPLE ISSUES.

That just wouldn't make sense, would it? No.
 
This has become a flame thread lol :D

It's so funny. Nvidia's drivers weren't ready! Stop the presses! Wait until they are ready to review them! AMD's drivers are hardly ever ready, we'd never see a CPU/GPU test if that were the case.
 
Linus done crysis 3 bench with amd OC vs nvi OC ,and guess who's the winner
showdown-
 
I have posted the following update on the conclusion of the article. Reposting here for those who have commented and left feedback on the performance review:

Update (3/13): Just as we were posting this article, a patch for Tomb Raider was issued, noting stability fixes for Nvidia and Intel hardware, as well as TressFX hair rendering related improvements. As you can imagine, completing a performance review takes entire days and we usually try to move pretty fast to get you the facts as titles are released -- sometimes at the cost of missing a zero-day patch or driver update. In the particular case of Tomb Raider, we have performed a limited set of tests with the new patch and Nvidia graphics cards, and performance hasn't improved on the highest visual settings. It's somewhat safe to assume this will be addressed on an upcoming driver release.undefined
 
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