The vast majority of people should absolutely not buy a 5600x. The price is an absolute joke. If it was 180-200€ then sure, but at over 250 that is ludicrousthe *vast majority* of people should get as the best and most well rounded, the 5600x.
The vast majority of people should absolutely not buy a 5600x. The price is an absolute joke. If it was 180-200€ then sure, but at over 250 that is ludicrousthe *vast majority* of people should get as the best and most well rounded, the 5600x.
Motherboard prices count for a lot: A520 motherboards that run the 5600x perfectly are under 100 USD Good % in the overall price of the rig and we know the prices of anything that can run the 12600k more than makes up for the price difference, even if you stick to DDR4 but that only makes finding a decently priced motherboard even more of a challenge.The vast majority of people should absolutely not buy a 5600x. The price is an absolute joke. If it was 180-200€ then sure, but at over 250 that is ludicrous
12600k is not your only option. If you don't care about performance that much you go for the 10400f / 11400f, if you do you can go to the 12600k. Also, there is the 10 and 11 series of 8 cores which can be memory oced to a b560.Motherboard prices count for a lot: A520 motherboards that run the 5600x perfectly are under 100 USD Good % in the overall price of the rig and we know the prices of anything that can run the 12600k more than makes up for the price difference, even if you stick to DDR4 but that only makes finding a decently priced motherboard even more of a challenge.
I'm sure we can revisit this in 6 months but well, at that point Zen3+ may (or may not) be a better option.
Yes, you can see the difference, the 12600k is up to 50-60% faster in MT workloads, usually around 30%. I mean, if you can't actually see the difference then there is no point in going for a 5600x, you get the 10400f for half the priceThe truth of the matter is; if you built 2 identical systems other than one having a 12600k and the other a 5600X(and associated motherboards), and did some tasks side by side, especially gaming, can you actually see the difference?
Yeah, right, poor AMD with those "innovations" For 3 years they gave us 10% year to year performance increases, and the moment they actually put forth a REAL upgrade (the zen3) the prices on the 6core and 8core chip increased by almost 50 freaking percent.I am buying AMD, even if Intel has a slightly better product/price, for two reasons.
First and for most, we still need AMD to grow, and be big enough to truly compete with Intel on a level playing field, as Intel can still buy itself out of the mess of not innovating, crippling competition unfairly, giving consumers the middle finger.
Second, I just hate Intel, they have been f****ing over me/consumers for years, Its nice Intel has an engineer again at the rudder, but it's gone take time for I buy Intel again, not saying AMD gone be any better if they dominate the market, but for now, as long as AMD does not screw up again like with bulldozer, I stick with AMD
You are comparing 8-core from 2017 against three years newer 6-core and say it's "only" 30-35%.I'm sorry, but going by the numbers alone, Intel between 2011 and 2015 or between 2013 and 2017 gave us more performance increase then AMD did. At 300$ , we went from a 1700 at 2017 to a 5600x at 2020-2021. In cinebench that's a 30-35% increase.
On the other hand from the 2600k to the 6700k there is a 45+% increase. From 2013 to 2017 there is what, an 80%+ increase? (4770k to 8700k).
So yeah, stop making up excuses for an awful company.
You are comparing 8-core from 2017 against three years newer 6-core and say it's "only" 30-35%.
But then Intel made "huge increase" when going from quad core to six core
How about comparing Ryzen 1200 against Ryzen 5950 and see how much AMD gained during 4 years?
As for your results, https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag...00kthe_2018_review_time_for_an_upgrade,6.html
2600K scores 612 and 6700K 879. That's pretty far from "45+% increase".
Im comparing CPU's at the same price points. The R3 1200 and the R9 5950 are not at the same price point. On the other hand, the R7 1700 and the R5 5600x are. So it's fair to compare them. The number of cores is completely irrelevant, what matters is how much you pay and what you get out of that.You are comparing 8-core from 2017 against three years newer 6-core and say it's "only" 30-35%.
But then Intel made "huge increase" when going from quad core to six core
How about comparing Ryzen 1200 against Ryzen 5950 and see how much AMD gained during 4 years?
As for your results, https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag...00kthe_2018_review_time_for_an_upgrade,6.html
2600K scores 612 and 6700K 879. That's pretty far from "45+% increase".
How comparing CPU's on same price points is fair on current situation? Also, there are still available previous models, like Ryzen 3600 or 3600X that fits on same socket. Basically you are saying that AMD should have reduced pricing of 3600/3600X and offer 5600X on same price 3600X was launched. All on current situation...Im comparing CPU's at the same price points. The R3 1200 and the R9 5950 are not at the same price point. On the other hand, the R7 1700 and the R5 5600x are. So it's fair to compare them. The number of cores is completely irrelevant, what matters is how much you pay and what you get out of that.
From 2600K to 6700K there are two socket changes already.612 to 879 is actually a 45% increase (okay, maybe 44%). 44% of 612 is 269. 612 + 269 is 881. So yeah, the 6700k is 44% faster than the 2600k. And dont even get me started at the performance increase from 3770 to 8700. That's around 120%.
High end CPU price increased indeed but AMD also offers 16 good performance cores vs 8/10 on Intel. Price is more than justified.So yeah, AMD has dramatically increased the price of a high end CPU, from 330-350€ to 800€, and completely stagnated and offered piss poor yearly performance increases to the CPU market at 500€ and below. I don't know why anyone in their mind would still support that company, but don't let me stop you, go on
What difference do the sockets make? My point is that AMD has stagnated the mid - midhigh end market (so CPU's below 450€) MORE than Intel had, yet we are blaming intel constantly when actually AMD is way worse.How comparing CPU's on same price points is fair on current situation? Also, there are still available previous models, like Ryzen 3600 or 3600X that fits on same socket. Basically you are saying that AMD should have reduced pricing of 3600/3600X and offer 5600X on same price 3600X was launched. All on current situation...
From 2600K to 6700K there are two socket changes already.
I think I put wrong numbers on calculator, that is indeed pretty much correct.
8700 is still hexa core and 3770 quad core. And three socket changes too.
High end CPU price increased indeed but AMD also offers 16 good performance cores vs 8/10 on Intel. Price is more than justified.
Again, on current situation, there is no point comparing prices (and forgetting almost everything else) to what they were before. Using your logic, Nvidia should never be supported. Price increases on mid range cards and above are tremendous.
It makes big difference. Somehow AMD manages to make around 70% IPC improvements using same socket. Intel...What difference do the sockets make? My point is that AMD has stagnated the mid - midhigh end market (so CPU's below 450€) MORE than Intel had, yet we are blaming intel constantly when actually AMD is way worse.
Ah, MRSP comparison at time when virtually no products sells for MSRP.I'm not comparing street prices, I'm comparing MSRP. The current market is no excuse for MSRP to be 50% higher than previous gen. Arguably the GPU market is way worse, yet the MSRP of the nvidia cards were actually pretty fine. AMD's on the other hand SUCKED
So you acknowledge that the 12600K is cheaper and faster than a 5600X but you say we should still buy the 5600X anyway because it’s not slower enough to notice unless you are measuring it?While I think it's fair to agree Intel has the upper hand for a cheap entry level gaming processor, there is also a large category of people who learn to never buy the "cheapest" solution available, and generally spend the extra bit of cash on a mid tier CPU such as the i5 12600k, or 5600X. In which case on paper yes the 12600k is a tad faster in some tasks, but also consumes more power. The truth of the matter is; if you built 2 identical systems other than one having a 12600k and the other a 5600X(and associated motherboards), and did some tasks side by side, especially gaming, can you actually see the difference? It's nothing like comparing say an old FX-8350 to an I7 3770K where some games, especially when it came to minimum framerates, were considerably better and far more playable on the i7. I am basing this off TechSpots own 10 game average where overall the i5-12600k utterly dominates the 5600x by a whopping 2 frames per second..............
You have "Best Entry-Level CPU" & "Best Value CPU", I would think those two things are far too similar given your price points. I just find it odd you're leaving out the $300ish category almost completely, and basing off user review counts, those $300 processors are without question far more popular(going back to what I said about people learning not to purchase the cheapest solution). At this rate, I'd say to visually allow people to filter out buying options, take your 10 game average chart, and put the corresponding price next to that CPU, it may really help put things into perspective for users. For your category's I think something like "Entry Level", "Gaming", "Productivity", "Enthusiast", and "Long Term Builder" make far more sense, and give a little flexibility.
The mobo compatibility doesn't mean anything when you are already paying for a new motherboard in the price of your CPU. There was a point when 5800x was 450€, with that money you could literally buy a 10700k + a z490!!!It makes big difference. Somehow AMD manages to make around 70% IPC improvements using same socket. Intel...
Let me remind you that it was Intel that offered zero IPC gain since Skylake (2015) until March 2021.
Ah, MRSP comparison at time when virtually no products sells for MSRP.
Nvidia's low MSRP for 3000 series is one main reason for card shortage. Some people haven't got card they ordered on release day...
Must be very cheap z490 motherboard then. Also AM4 boards are miles better than z490 motherboards (because z490 boards lack x4 NVMe from CPU). Additionally there is zero upgrade paths available for 10700K+z490 combo. On AM4 side 5800X probably works on older boards too.The mobo compatibility doesn't mean anything when you are already paying for a new motherboard in the price of your CPU. There was a point when 5800x was 450€, with that money you could literally buy a 10700k + a z490!!!
Yeah when you consider price and only price. Same time you ignore fact that only reason for Intel's competitive pricing was AMD. You also ignore socket compatibility, upgrade paths and fact that AM4 boards are much better than Z490 boards.Intel even with 0% IPC increase offer more performance increase between 2015 and 2020 compared to AMD. Do you need me to run the numbers again? The 9700k is almost 100% faster than a 6700k, with almost the same price. On the other hand the 5600x is 35% faster than the r7 1700 at the same price. That's called stagnation in my books
150€ is a very cheap motherboard? LOL ok bro.Must be very cheap z490 motherboard then. Also AM4 boards are miles better than z490 motherboards (because z490 boards lack x4 NVMe from CPU). Additionally there is zero upgrade paths available for 10700K+z490 combo. On AM4 side 5800X probably works on older boards too.
So yes, socket matters too. Good luck putting Alder Lake on z490 board...
Yeah when you consider price and only price. Same time you ignore fact that only reason for Intel's competitive pricing was AMD. You also ignore socket compatibility, upgrade paths and fact that AM4 boards are much better than Z490 boards.
When considering price and only price you may even be right. But when looking at wider perspective, it was Intel that stagnated. Pretty funny that when AMD gains around 70% more IPC and Intel same time 0%, you somehow manage to conclude it was AMD that stagnated...
Now let's see: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#c=143&s=39&sort=price&page=1150€ is a very cheap motherboard? LOL ok bro.
That's just because AMD's comparison point is 8-core, Intel's 4-core. You're basically deciding goalposts so that result is what you want.Numbers dont lie, AMD gaves us a 35% performance increase in 4 years at the 300€ price point. Intel gave us more than 100% (6700 to 8700).
I'm not comparing cores, im comparing prices. The number of cores is irrelevant to me. If AMD wanted to compare cores then maybe they shouldn't increase their prices by 50%?Now let's see: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#c=143&s=39&sort=price&page=1
ONE motherboard goes under 150€ on Germany. Same goes for France https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#c=143&s=39&sort=price&page=1
So yes, for Z490 motherboard 150€ is basically cheapest of all.
That's just because AMD's comparison point is 8-core, Intel's 4-core. You're basically deciding goalposts so that result is what you want.