Weekend Open Forum: Where do you get your entertainment?

We really need to defuse this discussion a bit, just a notch or two, nothing too radical.

Red is pointing to a fact of business life. If you go into Walmart and steal something, those losses are calculated into the selling price of the remaining items. If 20% are likely to be stolen, then next time you buy one, plan on paying 133% of the pre-theft price. That's a "gross profit margin" calculation. I know you're thinking it shout be 120%, but business doesn't work that way.

See, this is one of those points, that in good faith, you really shouldn't have to make. But since it appears necessary, I'll take a shot at it too.

In a technical sense, Techspot doesn't have any need whatsoever to "collect information". since in the forum, and by its very nature, it is a collection of information. So now, how can anybody complain about relinquishing information that they've contributed voluntarily in the first place?

Everybody knows that this is a public forum, you don't have to sign in to view the forum. You only have to sign in to place information into the >>> collection....! Who's viewing, who knows, Bill Gates, the FBI, Weird Al Yankovich, could be anybody.

Everybody gets lectured almost everyday, "once something is on the internet, it's there forever".

So then, if you don't want anybody to see what you've said, why not simply shut your yap. This of course, does presuppose, an individual's command of a certain amount of normally applied self control. Just shut up, it's that simple.

If you think spewing a bunch of information about how much illegal content you've acquired is an "admission absolves guilt" protocol, save it, I'm not your minister.

That percentage will probably increase to cover severence payments for their workers....at least the thieves need not worry about the Ninja Customer Services Managers

Netflix. Instant View Mostly. On my Roku Box. That and I like converting shows to MPEG 4 (or sometimes leaving them as is) and streaming them to my iPhone through my internet connection to watch at the gym.

.


I understand your thinking on that Dark, but the answer is no. I have 26 years of business experience and training, and 14 years of being on corporate budget committees and know that theft is calculated in many different ways. It can be that we finance their purchases and we know from experience that a certain number of customers will not pay the finance charges or interest we have to pay. Thus it gets figured in at higher wholesale cost of X%. It can be loss of economy of scale of only pressing 500k copies rather than 1M copies.It can be in the form of more employees salaries for tech support due to having to field troubleshooting for copies they didn't even sell and make money on. Whatever or however theft impacts the bottom line, The cost of the building,salaries,development,production, down to the electric bill and company garbage collection, is amortized over less units sold because of theft. and the folks actually purchasing the product pay more per unit. You can argue if you like that Activision ,etc , are reaping 'to much profit', and that's a different discussion. But you are paying for the pirating if you purchase the product.Another way that theft costs the consumer is by limiting the choice,quality, and competition in the marketplace. I don't know what specifically is not there, however I would wager a healthy sum that there are projects out there that will not be developed because the cost cannot be recaptured due to rampant piracy. And it always amazes me that the people who ***** the most about lack of, or poor quality games...are the ones stealing them. As far as pulling a financial 'double jeopardy' by going after the individuals who pirate, I don't think they expect to recapture their financial losses, they want to actually stop the theft to increase the market for legitimate sales. Weather that is an effective tool or not, again a different discussion.
I just hope that all of these people that think they can arbitrarily deem others labor and creativity grow up and decide what they want to do for a living. At least stay consistent about it when someone decides that they are entitled to their good or product and steal it...including intellectual property.

hello ..

@ 1st was quite hesitant in replying here, but OK why not .... let's not be hypocrite!

when i was younger (that was long ago LOL), still at school, i had a lot of games which i bought from 1 of the rare PC games & software shop (on diskettes), the price wasn't really high but not cheap either, the only problem, there were no legit software available & till now hasn't change that much.

I did change! I feel it's stealing to own pirated contents, even if i do still own a few items (music/games/movies) from my past life, i've gone through an almost 180 degrees turn.

i listen to music off streaming site & buy original CDs ONLY, I play on the PS3 & my PC games are from steamy site & alike. I watch movies in HD & TV series on Sat, i bought a few DVDs & blu-rays after watching the same in theaters.

The Internet is now my legal source of entertainment, it cost me more but i feel happy with it.

I never finished any games i got illegally in the past, had too many & not enough time, or maybe didn't feel the real value for got them either for nothing (from friends) or too cheap.

It's since i buy my stuffs that i really enjoy them. I don't blame people still downloading, it's still too early to get everyone join the right side, but i'll advise to anyone, if you can do buy legit. I understand it's hard for students & those having no fixed revenue. I'm not that rich, no i'm not even rich, who knows tomorrow maybe i'll be so. I'm rich in experience & i can say with confidence that paying for what we like even in special bargain sales, it pays off with time for all parties.

some hints: go for steamy, direct2drive or Good ol games promos, i also buy old PC magz with full games for ONLY Rs60 (1.77 US$) - i know i won't really play them, but it fills my need to have a lot of games.

I use freewares & portable apps & some apps come with the hardware i purchase.

Music & movies are the only i need to totally convert, i'm re-purchasing a few albums & blu-rays, but can't get rid of old illegal stuffs until i replace them all.

So whatever you do, as long as you can live with it, too good but if you really like something, believe me it's worth owning it & feel the pride when saying it.

Cheers!

With that being said, is it reasonable to expect any kind of reciprocity from a manufacturer. Or would it be wishful or idealistic thinking to do so? Basically the question is this, if everybody stopped stealing a company's merchandise, would the company be willing to accept a lower profit margin on more units sold?

This is at the heart of these discussions. And it's very easy to be cynical about any benevolence to be had from big business. It would break the cycle, but who would have to make the first move, and what would likely be the response. The people at the top of businesses tend to be detached, and extremely greedy. Perhaps the "non-paying" customer is "always right". Thorny concept indeed. I'm old and jaded both, and I believe that the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer, it just happens a whole lot faster nowadays.

I think that Redbox is the harbinger of a Utopian entertainment era being ushered in. I mean really, the movie studios will take 20 bucks from you for a movie that isn't worth sitting half way through once. For a dollar though, you really don't feel so cheated, dirty, or violated.

So then, to bring this back to topic, I get my feature films from Redbox. I buy actual CDs, and watch OTA broadcast TV. Then there's the constant bickering at Techspot, I enjoy that a great deal too.

Good points, a couple of thoughts on that from my experience anyway. I added an edit right before you posted Cap about theft restricting competition, and limiting choice. I don't think they would do it out of the kindness of their hearts no. but competition would require them to. I also believe ( having lived it for so many years that yes they would take a smaller profit margin per unit in trade of higher volume) and reduced theft would lower production cost of each individual unit as well. It would take a while to reverse no doubt as the kitty has already been let out of the burlap in that $50 or $60 threshold has been set for a premier new title, However i have yet to see in 26 years where it hasn't worked. Its like whats his nuts said. "Abstinence works every time its tried" not my favorite theme... but you get the picture.

hehe, I think whoever invented the redbox is a marketing genius.

I have to say that I do download a fair amount via torrents like Criminal Minds, Bones, NCIS: LA, House although I really don't know why because I could watch all these programs on TV via my Sky subscription but I like being able to watch it when I want but I could do that by using Sky Player (There VOD service) so I really have no idea why I do download it. I always buy games for my PC and PS3. Movies, well I am subscribed to a movie rental service, I used to have it where i was allowed one at a time but as many as I want a month but now I just get 2 per month, I also use the PS3's movie rental service (I pay the same for 2 DVDs a month as I do to watch one on PS3) and I also download some movies less legitimate ways (Keep them as long as you want and cheaper).

I used to download everything,years ago,when I was a teenager.I have seen the light and buy my video games through retail or steam,and either buy music as CD's or listen to it on spotify.

Pirating games on PC is a piece of cake and I can see why it happens so often,its usually just a case of downloading the game and applying the crack.As I have so many games which I have bought for PC, I don't like putting the CD/DVD in all the time,in this case I will download "No-DVD" cracks from GameCopyWorld.

As for TV shows etc,I either buy it on DVD cheaply,by looking for the best bargains online etc or I can get my mates to lend me their stuff,if they have TV shows as a AVI file,I don't mind them giving me a copy and playing it on my Xbox 360 or PS3.I do not see anything wrong with that,especially as its TV shows I usually get this way.

I too agree with Red,the companies have to claw the money back somewhat,which makes you feel furious as a legitimate buyer.

I pirate games I have once allready owned. EG I lost my Rollercoaster tyoon 2 disk. I torrent it Seems fair as I bought it. Now with the Sims 2 I thought £20 per expantion pack was too much. So I Bought Univerciry, Pirated Nightlife, Bought Pets pirated the Holiday One. So my Sims 2 copy was only Half legal LOL.

I too have Never Bought a Song. I used to Download it all, now I use Spotify. Did use Spotify Premium for a few months, but 3G coverage where I lived bad so I could not sue it on Mobile very well, and I got no money being a student.

All my Games I buy on Steam, my most recent Purchase was the Defence Grid DLC, Alpha Protocol and I might buy Shatterd Horizones while Its half price. I have a PS3/Xbox360 neither are cracked buy all Games Legit for them.

TV, as I have a SKy TV subscription I do not see the difference between torrenting the programs and recording them with SKy +. (Ok I do download it in HD and don't have sky HD) If there was a TV service that ran off adverts (IE u watched a 60 second Add before it starts like youtube) I would use it. I want to watch the full season of the Big band Theory. But its not on http://www.seesaw.com/ (as it aired on Channel 4) So Im gonna torrent it. I love the show but being a student with little/ no money I just cannot afford that.

I am a computer Games design Student so know how Piracy Effects the Games Industry, Y developers have switched to console. Activision are a bad company. EA are a bad company Tho have got better recently. But I also think People blaim piracy for too much/ I hate it when a really **** game is released and everyone pirates it instead of paying the full £30 to see what its like and the dev goes ''0h clearly piracys fault it not sold well''

Game devs work hard on there games, But if its **** its ****. Nothing you can do excecpt Patch some of it, but damage is done as people don't review games again after they been patched.
Plz do not Flame My opinions.

Movies and TV: I used to get them on DVD's when I was single. Since I married I get them on cable.
Music: Never was all that much into music. I occasionally buy a CD, and even more rarely buy a downloadable song. That's because few online music services support Israel.
Games: I buy at online stores, often on Steam sales, but I also have a decent size collection from Big Fish Games (casual store). I don't play much these days.

Here in Suriname ( South America) everything is downloaded illegal and sold in stores just like that and still its legal in this country. you name it music, games, pirate movies just everything can be found in almost every store here. new title games are sold for SRD35 thats like $11. new movies on dvd for just SRD5 thats not even $2 and a music (mp3) cd with all the song you want on it for just $5.

Ok Guys, I Guess I should add my 2 Pennys in? (see i'm from England

I have knowingly pirated music, But before anyone hurts me, it was the newest "Seether" Album and i loved his first one so wanted to check this one out, it was awesome! so the next day went to HMV and Brought the CD. The only other Thing I have Pirated is "World of Goo" mainly because a friend kept raving about it but from what i could see on the net it didn't look that great but again sure enough it was awsome and I went and bought the game for 7p.

I own many games on PC, Xbox 360 and ps2. I am 17 years old (about to hit 18 in 27 days!) and my family is not what i would call "Rich" instead, the day i decided I wanted to build a computer and I went and got a paperround, after that I now have a full career in IT and have done since i was 16!

Anyone who blames it on being poor have nothing to say except they are lazy sh*ts that cannot be bothered to get a job and actually make something of themselves.

I can go from being poor in a small house with my parents and owning practically nothing, to finally buying the games and content I want, why can't you?

I Live in High Wycombe (Just outside London) and here i know plenty of people who Pirate, and I have warned them that laws are coming in to stop them, yet they take no notice, Even though its my best friend, i cannot wait for him to get caught!

Movies: Mostly DVD's through Netflix.

While I have an HD computer monitor, it's unwatchable compared to my home theater -- used to buy the DVD's of movies I love, don't know if there's been no movies I love, if I'm satisfied with rentals, or if I just got out of the habit, but I don't buy DVD's any more.

Music: Buy.

Only a few are worth full price, mostly I buy when I can get it cheap (read: online). I spend so much time on this (darned) computer I almost always listen to music though the computer (have a pretty good system).

Games: Haven't played games in a long time (X-Box was my last system, but the Sega Genesis was the last one I played religiously).

I bought games 'cause there was no other option then. Never played PC games. When I WAS playing games, I always had an out-dated computer -- now that I have a state-of-the-art system, I don't play games. :\

By all means then, enjoy it while you can. The DMCA is a international law. For those areas who do not yet subscribe to it, you can bet that efforts are under way to curtail the availability of illegal materials, Either from the source, or via threats or enticements to you government. Basically, what we can do to you if you don't comply, versus what we will offer you if you will. Or, as we used to describe this, "the carrot or the stick".

Suriname is a small country, and probably hasn't been identified as an, "emerging market", as of yet. Or if it has, there are likely others with a higher priority.

Don't you mean, "two pence"? Or perhaps. "tuppence"?

In my neighborhood, the people are only too happy to make something of themselves. That would be petty crack dealers. Some days Burty, I just don't know where they find any customers. Oh well, maybe on an off day, they sell to each other.

Doesn't it even bother you a bit when you realize, a portion of your discretionary entertainment dollar is either going up Lindsay Lohan's nose, or helping to defray the legal costs she generates?

No actually, what does p*ss me off more is that I pay hefty Tax for my bum of a friend to go go into education when I know full well that he wants to be a Bum and do nothing, he has already told me!

That hurts more than knowing he will get caught eventually, he is way to stupid to actually cover his downloading, hell i bet his ISP (BT) already track him often because he is downloading almost constantly!

And I did mean 2 PENCE!

You betcha Burty. And when you factor in Lindsay's coke habit, what you're left with is the warm afterglow of being serially victimized. I've always thought that mailing in our taxes, or having them taken out of our pay, is way too impersonal. Better we should put them on the dresser, with a single rose, and have the government pick them up when it's done with us.

Actually they do, and we all know that. They know those games are favourites among gamers like us, and when Diablo 3 is out.. you'll see if what we were saying is true..