Your Opinion on the illuminati

[halo71]

Maybe he meant their beliefs are the same or similiar or something. That is about the only thing he told me. When I asked more questions all he said was that he could not talk about it..."it's a secret society."

Secret from what? What do they do these days? Are they kind of like the Elk and Moose lodge? The only thing they do that I can see is get together and drink on Sunday's! Can anyone elaborate on these questions? Spike?

 

[Spike]

Masons tend to do a lot of charity work too - AND they keep it secret The name "masons" is because they actually originate from the stone masons of old (ie, very skilled masons/architects), around the time of the Templar, but I don't know that they came from the Templar.

I'm not a mason, and if I was I probably wouldn't be saying this. I do know a mason or two though, and a little about what they get up to, but no more really than anybody else could find out for theirselves anyway.

Before I say this, understand that I don't mean to say that Masonry is like Wicca (Gardner was a mason and OTO member, and pretty much copied some of the ideas of masonry when he invented the religion of wicca in 1951), but if you research the subject of the three degrees of initiation of Gardenarian Wicca and understand what it's about, then you would get a rough idea of what the three degrees of initiation are all about in masonry - Not so much in a magical way, but in an esoteric/life mysteries way. The OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis) is also apparently a somewhat mason-like group, though I'm not sure whether that would be pre or post Thelema. lol. Again. Wicca IS NOT masonry, nor vice versa. They are two different things.

As you progress along the bath (which in masonry is initiation based), you learn of the paths "secrets" (life secrets/mysteries, etc. again, research wiccan initiation for a very rough comparison). In some lodges, some say that those secrets have been lost and watered down over the years. Masonry is an international phenomenon, and in some parts of the masonry community, it's entirely possible that the true meaning has been lost, and the whole thing reduced to little more than a "boys club". I wouldn't really know that for certain though - only a mason would I guess.

 

[Vigilante]

A rose by any other name, is still a cult. Uh, er, a 'religion', by any other name, is just a cul...er, a cult is just a rose with a different name. Umm, no. dang it.

I read about Wicca once, I think actualy wikipidia has articles about both. Lemme see.....ah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_mason

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

Scary stuff, some of the things they can get in to.

 

[Spike]

Masonry has been around for far far longer than Wicca. It can't really be considered as a cult, as it soesn't have a seperate daeity, nor does it revere any person as being of a deity. The religious element comes from the mason his or her self.

Wicca itself isn't really all that cultish. It's an evolving religion no more cultish than Christianity was when it first emerged, and has legal recognition as a religion (rather than a cult status). I've actually known quite a few wiccans, and there was nothing scary about them. Some of the stuff they did was scary to them personally (it was supposed to be I guess), but it did no harm to anyone else and their having done it certainly didn't scare me.

I'm not entirely sure if it's either the magic element that makes people think it's scary, or the ritual element. If it's the magic, it might be interesting to know that by the wiccan definition, a christian praying is a form of magic (oddly enough), and there's nothing sinister about that. As for the ritual element, Holy Communion is itself a ritual, as is a reigious ceremony such as a wedding, or you could even stretch it as far as the act of going to church each week.

No, I'm not Wiccan any more than I'm Christian. lol. I just have a little interest in understanding religion and religious perspectives.

Edit: I've just deleted a post from this thread. It was the only post of a new member. In a thread based on religion, feel free to discuss it objectively, but don't preach it. Don't troll either, as your posts will simply be deleted and your account will be banned for doing so.

 

[Grr_San_jose_Ca]

Masonry has been around for far far longer than Wicca. It can't really be considered as a cult, as it soesn't have a seperate daeity, nor does it revere any person as being of a deity. The religious element comes from the mason his or her self.

Wicca itself isn't really all that cultish. It's an evolving religion no more cultish than Christianity was when it first emerged, and has legal recognition as a religion (rather than a cult status). I've actually known quite a few wiccans, and there was nothing scary about them. Some of the stuff they did was scary to them personally (it was supposed to be I guess), but it did no harm to anyone else and their having done it certainly didn't scare me.

I'm not entirely sure if it's either the magic element that makes people think it's scary, or the ritual element. If it's the magic, it might be interesting to know that by the wiccan definition, a christian praying is a form of magic (oddly enough), and there's nothing sinister about that. As for the ritual element, Holy Communion is itself a ritual, as is a reigious ceremony such as a wedding, or you could even stretch it as far as the act of going to church each week.

No, I'm not Wiccan any more than I'm Christian. lol. I just have a little interest in understanding religion and religious perspectives.

Edit: I've just deleted a post from this thread. It was the only post of a new member. In a thread based on religion, feel free to discuss it objectively, but don't preach it. Don't troll either, as your posts will simply be deleted and your account will be banned for doing so.

You mean that was his only post?

 

[Spike]

Yes. It was his only post.

Unless of course you are talking about MY post preceding my edit, in which case I shall point out that I wasn't preaching, but merely stating the need for understanding and tolerance of other religions and belief systems (and the people that follow them) in the modern world. - but you weren't questioning that I'm sure.

 

[Vigilante]

LOL, I personally know the guy who made that post Spike, he was next to me when he read that you (was it you?) deleted his post. HAHA, I was laughing so hard. I warned him what would happen if he came in here that "strong". And sure enough he was deleted. Consequently he won't be back to the "lame" forum. LOL

Call me crazy, but Christianity is not "tolerant" of other religions only because in our beliefs, Jesus is the "the way, the truth, and the life". Therefor a Christian sees a "lost" person, in any other "false" religion.
Our proper recourse, is LIVE like it, BEHAVE like it, and PRAY like it. God will do the rest.
If there is one thing we can agree on Spike, is that Christianity certainly does not believe in "multiple paths to God". You do not reach the same destination by believing whatever you like. You don't all end up at the same end of the same road.
Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

If there is a god who demands our worship, why would he let us worship whatever we like? I suppose your wife would think it's OK if you, uh, brought another woman home to worship, perhaps she would think it's cute, and she would think, "well, I know he's with her, but I know it's really me he's after". No, your wife wouldn't want you giving your love to another woman, why should the God of the universe think it's OK to give your affection to some other god, some other idol? No I don't think it would be OK with Him. lol. Hence, intolerance
If God is God, He needs to be in His rightful position, on the throne, ruler, lord of all, king of kings, Lord of lords. Any other demeaning position and He is not God. It is my belief to keep God where He belongs. And if God can't accept worship to another, neither can I.

ARG, I will NOT make this a long post. I am done. I actually just wanted to share a laugh at deleting my friends post. Classic. But in retrospect, I am in line with his thoughts.

see ya

 

[Spike]

Closed this thread as per the reasons stated here. The thread has evolved to the same question as discussed in a parallel thread.

Thankyou to Everyone.