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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: The Format Wars @ TechSpot
Knowing very little about either, I decided to investigate these formats and what follows is hopefully an unbiased presentation of facts. At this time it is hard to say if there is a leader in this format race, or if there will ever be one, with products still not available in the retail market, and from what was shown at recent CES 2006 expo, manufacturers are still working hard on first generation players, which will inevitably be replaced just a few months later with more refined products once they reach the masses. Hopefully after reading this article you will be better informed about the two technologies, and why not, pick your own favorite, or call the industry for a much needed convergence (think of dual-format DVD±RW drives nowadays).
Read the complete article here.
User Comments (30)
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cold_storage
on January 30, 2006 6:10 AM |
This article did help bring a few things together but missed a few vital points in the format war.First though, the confusion about 1080p and resolutions supported. Neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD will support 1080p to start, since the spec for 1080p over HDMI (with HDCP) is not finalised, but both will be able to support it just fine once this is the case. Also something else to remember, an awful lot of the 1080p HDTV's that you can buy now, will not be able to take a 1080p signal from these players - Blu Ray or HD-DVD. The reason being older versions of HDMI and/or lack of HDCP verification. Managed copy is going to be a huge pull for a lot of people, especially tech savvy early adopters. HD-DVD spec states that you MUST be able to make a 'managed copy' of the movie. Managed copy meaning being able to rip it to your PC, or some future media server type affair. This is a huge reason for Microsoft supporting HD-DVD, it's good for their media center business, it's also the reason that anyone who uses Media Center may be swayed to HD-DVD. Blu-Ray Association grudgingly included the ability to have managed copy in thier disc spec under pressure from HP (Who were Blu-Ray only and now are saying they will support both, but are swaying towards HD-DVD). However blu-ray's version of managed copy means that it is possible, but up to the studio's discretion whether they want you to be able to view your content as you want, or if they want to bleed you dry by making you paying numerous times for the same content. The other reasons Microsoft likes HD-DVD is that it does not use a Java system for the menu's, but a microsoft developed system, called VC-1 or something I believe. HD-DVD also seems likely to have support for HD-WMV formats as well as mpeg4 (H.264 or whatever it's acronym is now, forgive me if I have it wrong, cant be bothered to look it up right now)Which leads me to my next point missed in the article but important to the war. Codec's. Sony recently announced that they would not be using H.264, but would instead be sticking with the tried and trusted mpeg2, i.e. same codec as DVD. HD-DVD is going to be using H.264, with option for microsofts codec i believe.Why does that matter? Well, Sony's decision seems to be based on making Blu-Ray's advantage seem more important than it really is. How much do DVD's store? about 4.5GB per layer, dual layer discs, known as DVD-9, are 9GB (A little less than 9 in practice I believe, more like 8.7 or something)HD-DVD is 15GB single layer, and 30GB dual layer (They have working dual layer HD-DVD's and can produce them easily), and are working on triple layerBlu-Ray is 25GB per layer, currently dual layer is prototype only and not ready for mass production, but when it is they have a whopping 50GB. Blu-Ray has a pretty significant space advantage - now they have to convince you that you need it - problem is - you dont. The reason why you dont? Codecs. Movie Codecs have come a fairly long way since mpeg2, dont forget mpeg2 is a decade old, current codecs are more efficient and produce better image quality and less artifacts in less storage space - the trade off? They need more processing power to decode. Seen how easily even a 480p HD-WMV video will bring a P4 3.8GHz to its knees? A 2.5 hour movie with Dolby DTS encoded in 720p H.264 will take up around 9GB of space, so DVD-9 is only just shy of being able to store it (shame DVD players couldn't decode it). the same movie in mpeg2 will take up a lot more room (close to double, but I dont have compression rates at hand to calculate). All of a sudden HD-DVD's 15GB looks ample, 30GB looks positively gluttenous, and Blu-Ray has a problem. Their size advantage really doesn't make that big a difference. So they use mpeg2 - reduces their costs as they need less advanced decoders, and makes their space advantage look better as they will doubtlessly spout some garbage about less compression = better quality.To be honest the best thing any of us can do is ignore both formats until they learn to get along. Until then get yourself a progressive scan DVD player and a HDTV that will upscale 480p signals. The jump from standard def to that would be enough to keep you away from HD-DVD and Blu-Ray for a while. |
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Mictlantecuhtli
on January 30, 2006 9:55 AM |
[b]Originally posted by cold_storage:[/b][quote]Blu-Ray has a pretty significant space advantage - now they have to convince you that you need it - problem is - you dont. The reason why you dont? Codecs. [/quote]Eh, there will be HD-DVD and Blu-Ray drives for computers. Do you think no one will use them to back up their 100+ GB hdds, or to store other data?I wouldn't complain if there was a single disc having all episodes of some TV series, either. |
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rellufnalla
on January 31, 2006 8:10 PM |
While all you guys are waiting and hoping for the blue laser, I will continue recording HD and enjoying 1080i with my trusty D-vhs tape that holds 40 GB. I recall I went through three DVD players before I finally got a good one that wouldn't freeze or wig out. How long will it it take this time around to get the bugs out and deliver a reliable product? How about 2008 or 2009.My collection of dvds just don't do it for me anymore. Its HD or naught. thank god for JVC |
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Master_Jedi
on May 1, 2006 1:06 PM |
All of this will be obsolete in 5 years or so, the companies know this and want to use HD-DVD to get as much money from us as fast as possible and as cheaply and as easily as they possibly can, because it's cheaper to adapt than to re-invent. What do you think their real intentions are? of course, money!!!!! Their not going to tell you that it is possible to make a standalone player that you can plug your existing IDE or SATA drives in now and use the storage of a normal HDD that can hold 490TBs. They want ease, and when we talk about how easy it is, it means greed, not convenience for the consumer.We can run cars on water now, which only emission is water? Do you ever think it will reach the market as is, or will it be modified to make us pay for something, anything? This idea was founded 50 years ago.....And they are making hybrid cars instead which use electricity, and cells combined so we have to go to a station and recharge at a price, instead of just filling it with the water you drank last night and re-using the same water for eternity, so we wont have to continually use our water resources, or use up our oceans water and turn into Mars one day!!....There will always be a line in which we will have to give up at least some money when it can be run from FREE ENERGY....Greed is what keeps us from utilizing the true potential of the human mind...As of now, movies are to be sold on the internet as soon as they are released into Cinemas. Months after, they are on DVD. 2 years ago, this was the move to stop piracy, and get as much money as possible before we started ripping them. Now, they think if they release the DVD faster, it will catch as many people as possible to buy it instead of linger it and come across a P2P program that is giving it away free because they think people can't wait for its release. This in turn, leads to the question? what next? Well, they will be releasing movies online for a fee, you will be able to download this new movie as soon as it is released onto big screens in perfect DVD quality, this in turn saves them money, saves attorney fees for taking individuals to court (only for most of them to get thrown out by the judge) and will be more practical because not everyone goes to the movies, and not everyone is an outright criminal (even innocent people are getting trapped because of the ease of getting a movie for free.) If it's there, all I have to do is click this and it's done in 7 minutes then watch it --FOR FREE!!!!!! BUT!, if you get the word out to those that don't understand rules and laws and say it's not legal to do, then there will be people who will pay a buck or two to watch it in perfect quality and not have to wait a year before it's on TV or video (even I would pay.) This in turn will lead to us buying, then recording the stream, then finally, backing it up for future watching. Even though we can record the streams and so forth, it will cut down piracy by at least 10%, that's a hefty 300 million per county per movie. Movies only make so much at a Cinema, imagine all those people at home that don't get to go to the movies because they work, or don't have 15 bucks to watch it, so 1 - 2 dollars should be fine, that will entice millions at home to watch the newest movies, and they will pay, because it's so cheap...if you want to be greedy, you get burned, and that's the way it has gone....I would rather that money than those guys getting it free off a P2P program. I mean, 1 billion off a movie is unheard of because like I said, not everyone can get to the movies, but if it was convenient and at the tip of your fingers, how much more money do you think movie companies can make of us, and we will be willing to do so...You will still get the occasional pirate, but they wont care too much anymore, because they are making 100 times more than what they would've if it cost more and was an inconvenience to others. Movie and music industries got caught in their own web of greed and are paying for it. So they think releasing the DVD faster will make up for the loss, and releasing new security such as AACS to stop duplication. The only real way to do it is to bring it to our PCs or door step, at a far cheaper cost. Think of the volume, and not how much you think it's worth to one person. It will pay off in the end, because it is a high end industry, not a low end one . You will always get customers coming back.. Because sometimes it's just out of some peoples reach because it isn't a need it's a want! Their own greed has blinded them into thinking the more it costs the more they'll make. It's the total opposite with something like this, because most everyone likes to watch a movie now and again, it's not like we are buying a new car every week.Anyways, back on topic..The newest HDD is 750GiB, soon to be 490TBs in 2010 using (HAMR) from Seagate. There will be no need for HD-DVD or Blue-Ray...Since all games, movies, music will be legally available in the future for download.This is a ploy to get as much money from us as possible before any of us find out the truth behind what's actually going on. Now I have told you, you can either do it because you can and want to and don't care, or you can wait for the bells to ring and be smart about the big picture. It is coming, don't get caught up in the times because that's the new "in thing". Get smart, and soon, we can get a 490TB HDD that is just as capable as a Blue-Ray or HD-DVD all in the same dimensions for far less money.490TBs gives us 1,003,520 hours of 720x576 compressed PAL video (if each movie was 2 hours long). If you are tight on quality, you get about 196,000 hours of uncompressed at resolutions of 720x576 PAL. If you are even tighter you can get 2 hours of 1080i at 2 GiB which equals around 500,000 hours per 490TBscompressed with XviD or 78,400 hours of 1080p uncompressed on one 490TB HDD from Seagate, ready to be released in around 2010.So...which would you rather? a bunch of discs that can be scratched, and stacked and bought for 50 bucks a blank.Or 1 single HDD 15cmx7cmx1.5cm, that holds 9800 (nine thousand eight hundred) blue rays @ 12cmx0.5mm @ 50GiBs each atits potential, for $1,ooo US? As apposed to the $500,000 (half a million dollars) you will spend on Blue ray discsat 50 bucks each. I'm not saying you will ever get this many, but I am saying that if you can get this much outof something so cheap, and so small, why would you go the opposite direction? Less storage for more money? or More storage for less money? And don't forget the actually space you need to store what you buy. 9800 Discs would take up roughly (if stacked in a slim case and stacked on top of each other) 40.9 meters (high) as opposed tothe same storage space in a smaller dimension of 15cmx7cmx1.5cm...The size of your HDD...And that is not even the full story. There is Holographics to dive into yet using crystals, and thorium storage to store data on light waves onto atoms with near infinite storage capabilities......We are only capable of what we are capable of now because we move with the times, and improve on something that we know worked in the past. Notice everyone says "look how far we have come in such a small amount of time, and it's getting progressively better at a faster pace," only those things that are revolutionary should be considered to be a quantum leap, not those that we improve on until we hit the end of its potential and then have to think of a new totally radical way to further convenience our lives. Look how far we have come in 2 years of CPUS alone? When we start to think outside the box, and use totally different methods, we will only (always) progress on it to better help us do things faster with more convenience, not what is possible to do with "it". We are only limited in our progression because of greed, it takes money to manufacturer what we use everyday. Imagine if there was no such thing as money and everyone worked for each other? Imagine what we could accomplish technologically. Not to mention other benefits like going to work knowing that you don't get paid, because you don't need to, because everything you need is free, because everyone is working for everyone, just work because your fellow partners or friends need to use whatever you make for a living. Which is why we have famine, people out on the streets, etcetera....Greed is the root of all evil.I hope I've warped your noodles... 
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Master_Jedi
on May 1, 2006 1:22 PM |
[quote][b]Originally posted by cold_storage:[/b]Blu-Ray has a pretty significant space advantage - now they have to convince you that you need it - problem is - you dont. The reason why you dont? Codecs. [/quote]Nice [quote][b]Originally posted by Mictlantecuhtli:[/b]Eh, there will be HD-DVD and Blu-Ray drives for computers. Do you think no one will use them to back up their 100+ GB hdds, or to store other data? [/quote]No, I buy HDDs in bulk to store my data, unplug it, and shift it away ...I only use my DVD burner to copy stuff for friends..It's totally impractical to back data up to a HD-DVD or Blueray seeing as it doesn't hold enough. If the Bluerays held at least 1TB or more, then I would think about it, and it has to be cheaper per Gig.[Edited by Master_Jedi on 2006-05-01 13:29:48][Edited by Master_Jedi on 2006-05-01 13:31:32]
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