Is the American press showing the photos of President Bush taken from behind during the first candidates' debate in which it appears as if he has been wired for sound in the same way that television presenters are wired into the control center?

That was the debate during which the candidates were stationery.

Bush wears $4000 suits, so the appearance of the bulge in the back of his suit that appeared whenever he bent forward is unlikely to have been a crease.

He was also remarkably hesitant and confused as if he couldn't talk and hear advice at the same time.

The photos are all over the newspapers here in the UK and are being shown on all of the TV news bulletins.

Eric,
http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/
http://www.sharedbirthday.co.uk/

The whole thing is ridiculous. Americans need to pay attention to what matters, not little garbage like this. There is always some moron looking to dis-credit the other. American politics are at an all time low!

I disagree.

It is very serious IF you have a President, the most powerful individual on the planet, who can't answer questions on his own.

Here's the story:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1304242,00.html

Eric

The problem here is that the real moron is Bush and his (lack of) knowledge....
I agree with Eric

Anyone who has ever had experience in public speaking knows that the last thing you want is someone blabbering in your ear while you are trying to speak.

On top of that, thinking that president is going to have a huge *** block on his back to be an audio device where the whole world could blatantly see it is sheer stupidity. IF anything, a listening device would be placed taped to the chest or in, you know, your pocket

If anyone believes that he was getting feed from some headset taped to his back, that person is utterly and completely clueless. The end.

He was wearing a bullet proof vest- though he denies it.
But of course he denies pretty much everything :rolleyes:

If he was wearing a wire, the people on the other end are dumber than he is and that is saying something!

Thanks Soul Harvester for telling these propagandists what is going on.

President Bush is a great leader, and I look forward to him leading us for four more years!

You cannot pay attention to these web sites. They all have agenda's. They want the other to become elected. This occurs on both sides of the fence, although it's more prominent with the democratic party right now, because they will do ANYTHING to become elected.

And when I say anyhting, I mean things like talk about the vice presidents daughter, saying handicap folks are going to walk, etc.... John Kerry thinks he's god I assume. He is making an *** of himself, and I for one cannot wait until he creeps back into his senate hole and hides. I live in MA and know his record, which sucks. He is a socialist, and hopefully after he looses the election, he will loose his senate seat.

I disagree.

It is very serious IF you have a President, the most powerful individual on the planet, who can't answer questions on his own.

Here's the story:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1304242,00.html

Eric

Don't you watch "The West Wing?" It takes a huge team of people, who are ALL experts in what the political agenda of the party is meant to be, all working together and thinking very hard to make a Presidency work. Its a team effort from the beginning.

If you think otherwise, its because politicians try to hide this process, almost like a form of theatre.

As to thinking of someone as being "The most powerful person on Earth", that notion is stupid, out and out. There is no "one person" who is the most powerful. A lot of what our leaders decide and say is influenced by a multitude of factors. Behind the scenes, I think you would find that mega-corporations have been running things for years anyway. You will never really know the real reasons why we go to war, or ban fox hunting, or set tax at whatever level.

Don't you watch "The West Wing?" It takes a huge team of people, who are ALL experts in what the political agenda of the party is meant to be, all working together and thinking very hard to make a Presidency work. Its a team effort from the beginning.

My high school principal, who is a local councillor, has an advisor. To advise him over cruddy little subjects like planning applications - a president is going to have THOUSANDS of advisors.

Whether or not President Bush is a great leader is rather irrelevant in this thread, so I won't open that can of worms. The fact that he is NOT a great speaker makes it even more believable that he did have a device telling him what to say. Honestly, I doubt he would have something that big strapped to his back if he were going to cheat.

Everyone says that he wasn't wearing a bullet proof vest, which I find kind of odd. What could that have been? I would imagine that with such a nice suit and a good tailor, it wouldn't have been a random crease in his jacket. Hmm...

Even if he is wearing a bullet proof vest - so what?

If I was him, I certainly would.

Someone hates Americans so much they drove 2 planes into a building full of people and killed over 4000 people including themselves.

So, someone certainly hates him enough to want to sneak in anywhere he is and kill him. He would be stupid not to wear a bullet proof vest. Get a grip and realise that.

Whoever winds up being the president of the united states is going to be wearing a bullet proof vest no matter who he is, or what he has to say on some moral issue or on taxation. Hell, probably every President since Kennedy has worn a bullet proof vest even to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

Someone hates Americans so much they drove 2 planes into a building full of people and killed over 4000 people including themselves.

Whoever winds up being the president of the united states is going to be wearing a bullet proof vest no matter who he is, or what he has to say on some moral issue or on taxation. Hell, probably every President since Kennedy has worn a bullet proof vest even to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

I'd guess even former US presidents (Bush sr. and Clinton in particular) still wear bulletproof vests.

It was under 3,000 not over 4,000 dead BTW. 2,997 or something like that.

You cannot pay attention to these web sites. They all have agenda's. They want the other to become elected. This occurs on both sides of the fence, although it's more prominent with the democratic party right now, because they will do ANYTHING to become elected.



Actually this was first reported in this country on Fox News which is a know conservative bastion, but to say that this is most prominent on the democrat's side of the fence is patently false. Rush "hydroco-stoned" Limbaugh preaches this kind of bs every day (when he's not in rehab), every week and every year- the reason there is not a liberal equivalent to Rush is that liberals won't listen to a narrow-minded hate monger like that.

I know, you are going to throw Michael Moore into this argument, but you know, if anything in Farenheit 911 were false, the Bushies lawyers would of sued him into the stone age- so far the only rebuttal to it I've seen is the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth- a pathetic attempt to redirect the argument and slander a soldier that actually had the courage to go to vietnam while our current President couldn't even fulfill the cushy gig his dad got him guarding Texas.

To bring this back on topic- This issue of the lump in the President's back and the way his supporters approach the argument is emblimatic of the entire administrations approach to government. When a question is put forth, rather than just answer it in a forthright manner they try to deflect it with nonsensical cries of "Sadam is now the threat", "I dont want the next (-11 to be a mushroom cloud","flip-flop!", 'you dont support our troops', 'the Iraqi people are better off today'

But what do you expect from a former cheerleader?

Farenhype 9/11 and Celsius 4111 are both documentaries/movies that thouroughly discredit and pull apart Farenheit 9/11. F9/11 was not a documentary and it did mix a lot of "truths" (ala lies) with "Fact".

I also see how you can hardly call Kerry a courageous soldier when he testified against his fellow soldiers, and he himself admitted to comitting war crimes, yet thinks this is all OK.

Every day, more and more vietnam veterans are coming out of the woodwork to vouch that Kerry is no leader, and is not trustworthy.

First I will address the talk show

Rush is popular, because folks listen. Obvoiusly he has an agenda, but folks like what he has to say. Libral talk radio cannot survive, and constantly looses money. This is because they have pretty much nothing to say.

Now for TV

Most prominant television stations are extremly biased towards librals. NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN just to name a few. The FOX station tries to stay in the middle, and your remarks prove this to be true.

How about newspapers?

Libral. Pretty much all of the major papers are libral including: NYT, LAT, Wash Post, Boston Globe, just to name a few.

And now Bush vs Kerry

You may or may not agree with Bush; I certainly disagree a tremendous amount upon certain topics. That being said, at least he has ideas, values, and a stance. John Kerry IS A FLIP FLOP! I know librals hate when folks use this term, but it is very true. He will say ANYHING to get elected. I will give you an example: "If I were president, Superman would walk again". This is ridiculous, and is extremly low. This man has no substance, and he is a complete liar. He has no plans, and no stance on ANY ISSUE. He has been in the senate for 20yrs, and has DONE NOTHING! Go take a look at his voting record. There is none. He missed 80% of the votes pertaining to security issues in the last 3 years, yet he is going to protect us?

To sum it up: Kerry is a socialist. If you are a socialist, then he is a president whom you will feel comfortable with. I am not a socialist. I believe in democracy, and I believe I can run my own life. I do not need the feds to do it for me, to make decisions for me, to make retirement plans for me, to give me medical, to give me housing help, to feed my kids, etc.. I do things ON MY OWN! DEMOCRACY!!!! I will leave you with a last word from Kerry: " If we did not have social security, our country would fall to pieces." In other words, folks are to stupid to invest thier own money, they need government to do it. THAT AINT ME, AND KERRY IS NOT GOING TO BE ELECTED!

As much as I've disagree with you TS|Crazyass in the past I have to say I agree with everything you have just said. The propoganda coming from the left is borderline obscene. There is a radio commercial that I heard today with a girl telling a guy to vote for kerry (implied) because otherwise he will be drafted! The left is still saying Bush is going to reinstate the draft! How many bullets to you have to put into a dead horse?

Then you have many of the consorts for Kerry's campaign such as Al Sharpton.

Fact: Al Sharpton is stating that the Republican party is working to steal the black vote and working to suppress the black vote.

Fact: It was only a scarce few years ago that Al Sharpton said the exact opposite: That the democratic party was suppressing the black vote by ignoring it.

There is too much hypocrisy. There is no more Democratic party. It has become the Socialist party.

I know it is pointless to try to change your minds. This pig-headed determination has become a hallmark of the Republican party. The steadfast refusal to admit you are wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence has somehow become a virtue in this President.

Dub-ya has been wrong on the economy (massive tax cut for the rich acutally lost jobs), wrong on education (no child left behind, an unfunded Federal mandate has bakrupted my local school district and forced the layoff of 50 school employees including 20 teachers), wrong on the war in Iraq (No wmds, Halliburton, No allies, back door draft), wrong on energy (His buddy Scalia on the supreme court blocked the release of the transcript of Chenney's meeting with Enron officials during which the administrations energy policy was set, gasoline and natural gas prices are at all time highs), wrong on the Environment Because of Republican backed legislation EPA fines can now be directed into the state's general fund rather than directed towards clean-up efforts) wrong on health care (premiums up 57% in the last 4 years/ seniors now forced to SNEAK into canda to get cheaper meds)- the list goes on...

As for Kerry's war record- Do you honestly mean to tell me that you believe that Dub-ya better served his coutry during that time? You guys talk of hypocrisy, but can you really say that a silver-spooned-draft dodger is better equipt to lead this nation during a war that has all the hallmarks of becoming ANOTHER Vietnam? Kerry served- Bush didn't. Kerry came back and spoke out against the war because he saw first had what an atrocity it was.

The Swift Boat Veterans for TRuth are backed by a man named Paul O'Neill (and funded by Bob Perry- a major Bush campaign supporter for govenor and Presidnet), a Vietnam vet who was tapped by the Nixon PR team to be the public face of the campaign designed to counter Vietnam war criticism; Kerry putting them in a difficult spot as a man who was there - a soldier who was confirming the war was a disaster and the establishment had no clue what they were doing-

Sound Familiar?

It should because its come full circle and he's doing it again!

But don't worry about Georgie, I'm sure his daddy will get him a nice cushy assignment back in Texas like he did during the last war. puke:

First economy:
The economy has experianced an extreme surge in growth. You are not being truthful by saying its not. The economy dipped into recession due to Clinton. It happened three months when Bush was in office. Also, the airplanes hitting buildings had a little somthing to do with it also. Tax cuts are good, economy is growing. That being said, there is more work to do. It's not perfect.

Next Iraq
If you were president and the CIA, along with intellegence from 20 other countires tells you there is a threat, you would deal with it also. I konw I would. Kerry would wait until the UN passed some lame resolution. We signed the resolution, along with the other others. Iraq was not following through, so we went in. It's what we said we were going to do. Also, The Iraq war is now a mess. I think everyone can admit to this. Is Kerry going to change anything? NO! He has no plans to change anything. If Iraq is your reason for voting Kerry in, you obviously do not konw his stance on it. Not a big deal, sense nobody else does either.

Education
No child left behind is a good program. The federal gov is not fully responsible for your problems with the local school. You school is run by the town, which it should be. No child left behind is a program which offers federal aid to schools. You cannot blame the administration for problems with your towns budget. It's raining here today, is that Bush's fault? The feds should not run our schools or our lives!

Halliburton
The work needed in Iraq could only be done by this company, because ther are no others that do the type of work they offer. They actually do a terrific job might I add. Cheny recieves money from them because when he retired, instead of taking a lump sum, he took yearly payments. Everybody assumes he is still on the payroll, but it's normal for CEO's to receive payments like this

Health Care
Bush has the right plan to attack healthcare. Let me go over what Kerry wants, and you decide. He wants a national system, ran by the goverment (yet he denies this). This will be free for poor folks, so it will be funded by taxpayers). There will be a premium for us, yet others get free care? Bull. That is socialism.
Talk to folks in Canada about thier gov. ran health care. Have you ever been to a hospital in Canada? I doubt it. If you have, you would want to stay away from gov. ran plans. What happends is the industry becomes non-competative. When this occurs, they no longer give a crap, and you are left with dirty hospitals and poor health care.
I was in Canada on a vacation, and my son became ill. After going to two hospitals, I decided to head home, because they were filthy. Is this how you want your health care system ran? The goverment has NO BUISNESS running my health care or money, but it does have a responsibility to make it affordable.

And let me just mention this. If you are a socialist and believe in that type of government, Kerry is right for you. Everybody believes in different things. Under Kerry you will pay more tax, pro-abortion, grow government, new social programs for poor, programs for afirmative action, give illegals licenses, promote gay marriage, increase welfare, short jail sentincing, no death penalty, and the goverment will want to control your life. These are not opinions, these are things librals believe in. I personally dont, but you might. Doesn't make you a bad person. Damn, I wish I had spell check :)

The Republican mantra like defense is beginning to sound like a Monty Python skit- "The Economy sucks!" republican response- "no it doesn't- it's just a flesh wound!"

The economy dipped into recession due to Clinton.

False- The economy was fan-freaking-tastic under Clinton- remember the days of budget surpluses?


Tax cuts are good, economy is growing. That being said, there is more work to do. It's not perfect.

This sounds like you lifted it strait from one of his speaches. I agree tax cuts are good, but when 90% of them go to the to 2% of earners and it creates huge deficits that the middle class will also pay for, its just plain wrong. But dont take my word for it- Ten nobel prize winning economists said it sucked (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2735269.stm)

If you were president and the CIA, along with intellegence from 20 other countires tells you there is a threat, you would deal with it also.

Oh, you mean this 'intelligence' (http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/IRN307A.html) - that our buddy Tony Blair (of whom bush must have frollicking in women's undergarments) supplied. Read the link- even if their intelligence was accurate (which it wasnt) it still did not constitute a threat.


Iraq was not following through, so we went in.

One question for ya- How could they produce weapons that we are now totally and completely sure they did not have?



It's what we said we were going to do.

Actually Bush said he'd use force as a LAST resort and to sum up Iraq, Ill agree it is a mess. Bush has killed way more Iraqui civilians than Sadam ever did and now there ARE al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/08/19/sprj.irq.al.qaeda.magnet/) . There are no jobs (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19450-2004Sep14.html) or infrastructure and the oil flow has been reduced to a trickle. Who in the world is better off because of the Iraqi situation other than Halliburton?


No child left behind is a good program. The federal gov is not fully responsible for your problems with the local school. You school is run by the town, which it should be. No child left behind is a program which offers federal aid to schools. You cannot blame the administration for problems with your towns budget.

No child left behind is an Underfunded Federal Mandate- it put responsibilites on the local school district and promised funds to pay for it and never came through. You are uninformed here.

On Halliburton
The work needed in Iraq could only be done by this company, because ther are no others that do the type of work they offer.

Wrong! They are a consortium of pipeline workers, truck drivers, construction workers- there is no magic to what Halliburton does. Why did they get the work? Who else can underwrite a $15 Billion bid for a contract that the Bush administration conveniently refused to break up or bid out.



They actually do a terrific job might I add

Huh? They do a terrific job of ripping off the American tax payer (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1559574) .

As far as your comments on Health care, we already pay for those that do not have coverage with our inflated premiums.


I was in Canada on a vacation, and my son became ill. After going to two hospitals, I decided to head home, because they were filthy. Is this how you want your health care system ran?

The United States pays triple what Canada does per capita (http://consumeraffairs.com/news03/health_costs.html) . So we could cover everybody, cut what we pay in half and still have millions for some mops and pails. Actually I don't really care if Kerry covers everyone as long as he stops the drug companies from screwing my grandmother on her meds.

I'm not a socialist- Im a regular, middle class Joe that pays attention to what's happening in the world. And I dont think you are a bad guy either- just dangerously misinformed.

I am misinformed because I disagree with you?

I imagine you are informed because you read the NYT right? Or better yet, you visit CNN.COM daily? I must say I do enjoy a good political discussion, but when folks think they are right about everything, it gets bland.
You are WRONG about the economy. CNN (http://money.cnn.com/2001/11/26/economy/recession/)
You are WRONG about the tax cuts.
FACT CHECK (http://www.factcheck.org/article280.html)
You are WRONG about going into IRAQ. Whay the hell do we have a UN if nobody is going to support it?
You are WRONG about Halliburton. Cheny does NOT make any money from them. FACT CHECK (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=261)
You are WRONG about no child left behind. If you would like to read more about it try this: USGOV (http://www.ed.gov/nclb/overview/intro/index.html)

Nice Independent News Source. I think this is the root of your confusion. Fact Check dot ORG (it SOUNDS independent) is in fact funded by a grant by Walter Annenburg (http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/A/htmlA/annenbergwa/annenbergwa.htm) (says so right there in yer links) who was SUPRISE- Richard Nixon's ambassador to Great Britian starting in 1969. After that he was such a good friend of the Republican Party that he was only too happy to support Ronald Regan for president in the pages of his little publication called TV GUIDE (paid circulation of 20 MILLION a week)! And you have the gaul to question the integrity of the NY Times or CNN? You think I'm biased?

Enough of the websites. I don't need them to substatiate my argument. You say the economy is swell- I live in Ohio we have record unenployment, 2 billion dollar projected state budget deficit and record numbers of home foreclosures. I have friends that have been out of work for a year.

You say the tax cuts work. I say where are the jobs? How is a $300 refund check supposed to pay for my friend's day care now that her Head Start program has been cut? Why does Warren Buffet pay a lower percentage on his income taxes than our soldiers fightening in Iraq when his salary is a tiny percentage of his wealth? In what world does it make sense to give the wealthiest Americans tax cuts during a time of war and record deficits?

Why do we have a UN? Well I guess the purpose of the UN it to use international pressure to convince rogue governments to comply with derectives that the member nations see as important- the logic being that the combined influence of many nations will hopefully obviate the need for an armed conflict.

It works too. Sadam had no weapons of mass destruction. Hell he couldn't even fly a plane over his own country! Nobody was dying and there were no terrorists in Iraq.

As far as Halliburton, I never anything about the VP (Funny YOU should mention though!). Halliburton is plenty crooked without **** at its head.

FACTCHECK.ORG is a pretty good source for news. If you actually opened your eyes up and read some of the information, it's taken from documents and is always researched. Let's face it though, pretty much EVERY source of news/information is going to be biased, like I said in the VERY FIRST POST. I am glad you can now confirm this. This was the basis for our first discussion.

Ohio happends to have the worst unemployment in the country right now. Like I said previous, obviously there is more work to be done. Tax cuts do the following to help spur the economy:
Lower taxs on buisnesses: They can now hire more folks
Lower tax on middle class families: I have 4 kids and my previous child tax was $2400. Now, I can claim $4000. Also, I no longer get penalized by the marriage law. This is good for me, and good for other American families.

I personally think every working person should pay the SAME tax percentage. I do NOT think the rich should support everyone else. If you make $5 an hour, you should pay the same percentage as someone making $20. That is fair, and is constitutional.

You say the UN works? HAHHAHAHAHAHHA. The UN is a joke. If it worked, then all those countries that signed the resolution would have supported us. They signed the damn thing. IT DOES NOT WORK. The UN does nothing about global terrorism or drug trafficing either. The UN is spineless.

Since you cannot substantiate your arguement, I would assume it is now over. I do feel bad for your friends, but BUSH did not make airplanes fly into buildings. The economy was on the downhill, I sent you some information on that. The airplanes obvoiusly had a VERY LARGE impact on our economy also.

On a personal note, I worked for DELTA AIRLINES. I recieved my walking papers FEB 2003. I was on the street when unemployment was at it's highest. It was the worst thing that has ever happened to me, but I do not blame BUSH. I blame TERROR! I was back to work within 2 weeks with a new company. My father went through hell also, he works for USAIR. Believe me when I tell you, I am as close to this crap as can be. But TERROR is at fault, not BUSH. And if KERRY had ABSOLUTLY ANY good ideas, I would think about change. But things are going in a decent direction, and they are only going to get better.

FACTCHECK.ORG is a pretty good source for news. If you actually opened your eyes up and read some of the information, it's taken from documents and is always researched. Let's face it though, pretty much EVERY source of news/information is going to be biased, like I said in the VERY FIRST POST. I am glad you can now confirm this. This was the basis for our first discussion.

You decry the lack of impartiality in the news media and you use a Republican-funded Shill masquerading as an independent think-tank as your evidence! WTF? I guess the dubious .org designation fooled ya.

Simple deductions
- If tax cuts spur jobs- where are they? If Bush's economic plan was working so well why did he want to reclassify fast food jobs as manufacturing?

-As far as the UN- It was the US that violated the resolutions. Inspections were working fine- AGAIN THERE WERE NO WEAPONS! And as far as the drug trade the US is directly responsible for that by not allocating enough troops in Afganistan- remember them? That's where Osamma lives amongst all the pretty poppies.


Here's some suggested reading for you.
- The 911 report- Which clearly states that Bush was aware prior to 9-11 of Bin Laden's desire to attack a target in the US using airplanes as weapons and targeting skyscrapers and that there is no evidence of a connection between Iraq and Al Quaida.

- The Deulfler Report- Which also clearly states that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and in fact had no ability to make them as of 1991!

-The annual Economic Report of the President- States that his tax cuts would produce 2.6 million jobs. ( the bit about reclassifying burger flippers is on page 73- here's a direct quote

Mixing water and concentrate to produce soft drinks is classified as manufacturing," the president's report reads. "However, if that activity is performed at a snack bar, it is considered a service."

-And finally- Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate- It will help you to better formulate your arguements which is essential when you are faced with a sisyphean task like defending George Bush.

First I will address the talk show
Now for TV

Most prominant television stations are extremly biased towards librals. NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN just to name a few. The FOX station tries to stay in the middle, and your remarks prove this to be true.

How about newspapers?

Libral. Pretty much all of the major papers are libral including: NYT, LAT, Wash Post, Boston Globe, just to name a few.

Absolutely rediculous. State your sources and figures.

A lot of what is in this thread is loose gum flapping, heresay and incorrect political gossip. If you find that interesting, that's fine.. :) But I think anyone taking this thread as factual information should do some research and come up with their own decisions on the presidential election.

I do not have to prove to you the biased stance in the media, anyone watching can figure it out on thier own. It's right there in front of you. Even if I proove with a link, you will claim that link is biasd. This is an open end arguement, and cannot be won on either side. I can give examples: Dan Rather, Katie Couric, Tom Brokaw, Sam Donaldson, Peter Jennings just to name a few. These folks are all biased towards the LEFT and have said it in interviews. I just heard Donaldson on a radio interview endorsing Kerry. You cannot endorse canidates and be a good source of unbiased news.

As far as jobs go, we lost 700,000 under Bush (the rest have been recovered). Where did they go? They went into buildings. I know you do not want to admit this, but 911 DID INDEED destroy our economy. Take it from me, I am one of them.

.ORG did not fool me. Go read it for yourself. The articles seem to be balanced. Point out one that is not. You cannot, because it's pretty close. That being said, there is no source that I believe in 100%.

The UN is pathetic. You can keep defending it, but it's a joke. Go read the resolution. It states that if IRAQ does not comply, which they DID NOT, we and others use force to go in. IRAQ DID NOT COMPLY! You would be a good lawyer for Sadam the way you defend him. It is absolutly ridiculous that you keep defending this maniac. He used weapons on his own people.

Formulate my arguments? I personally think you are blind. Everything you said so far has no substance, and you have produced NOTHING. You need to come of your high horse and at least listen to others. You speak like it's your way or the highway, when you are dead wrong.

RICK: Yes you should do your own reseach, that goes without saying. It's pretty funny that you tell me to state my sources on the biased news media though, I can tell you do not do your own research.

Godataloss: I thought you were done linking web sites? Here is one for you addressing the report. (http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20041007-092535-2936r.htm)

This can go on all day. For some reason, you attack what I say, then when I retaliate, you hide under a rock and mention somthing different. If you insist on being in attack mode, I will no longer reply to your messages. There is a way to have a civil discussion without attacking and being nasty.

You have got to be joking? I have offered logical arguments supported by fact throughout this entire thread and to refute them you send me links (http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20041007-092535-2936r.htm) (please notice the targeted ad Dump Daschle" paid for by the Republican Party"). I can see why you think most of the media is liberally biased if you consider that drivel and the factcheck.org "pretty much balanced". Here's a FACT-listed in the Deufler Report- Iraq had no weapons. Now here's an OPINION of the Deufler report- Sadam INTENDED to get sanctions lifted. As any lawyer will sadly tell you, it is virtually impossible to prove intent, but Duefler had to throw the Bush administration a bone- they hired him after all.

You lost your job on 911 because you were employed in an industry that has a HORRIBLE business paradigm (with a few notable exceptions thank you SWA). If the government had subsidized the Manufacturing sector as much as it did the airlines the economy would be booming!

You keep ripping on the UN saying Iraq did not comply with the resolutions, yet you have failed to answer my simple question of HOW COULD THEY PRODUCE WEAPONS THEY DIDN'T HAVE? I look forward to your answer.

Everything you said so far has no substance, and you have produced NOTHING.

Fact is I've
http://www.gilbertv.com/images/owned_ali.jpg
you this entire argument.

I lost my job because of 911.

SWA has a good buisness plan? Do you know they do not do any major overhaul work on thier aircraft? All major work is shipped over to MEXICO. SWA has about 2,500 mechanics. Most other airlines have 5,000 plus because they do thier own work (well, not anymore). First you ***** about lack of jobs, now you credit a company that outsources all major work, which could be done by American Workers.

How could they prove they had weapons they did not have? Why the hell didn't Sadam open up everything and let them look? What the hell did he have to hide? You tell me, since you know everything. Why was he being so defiant? In order to lift sanctions, he needed to PROVE he had no weapons. He did not, so we proved it. He had no documentation supporting the fact that he destroyed them. Now this is only my opinion, but I personally believe they DID and DO have weapons. I also believe these weapons could have been shipped out to other countries while we were busy debating on going in. This is only my opinion.

Kerry supported the war. Kerry voted for the war. If this is a decision maker on who you are going to vote for, then the war does not matter in this debate.

Now this is only my opinion, but I personally believe they DID and DO have weapons

My god! You're right. I found an unbiased news source.

http://www.gilbertv.com/coppermine//albums/06142004/normal_wmd.jpg

John Kerry IS A FLIP FLOP! I know librals hate when folks use this term, but it is very true. He will say ANYHING to get elected. I will give you an example: "If I were president, Superman would walk again". This is ridiculous, and is extremly low. This man has no substance, and he is a complete liar. He has no plans, and no stance on ANY ISSUE. He has been in the senate for 20yrs, and has DONE NOTHING! Go take a look at his voting record. There is none. He missed 80% of the votes pertaining to security issues in the last 3 years, yet he is going to protect us?!

You know something? I think you are right. I hate to say it, but Bushy boy really is the better candidate in my opinion. OK, he's not perfect - far from it - but he is going to do what needs to be done to tackle some of the hard issues. In this day and age, we need strong government more than ever.

How could they prove they had weapons they did not have? Why the hell didn't Sadam open up everything and let them look? What the hell did he have to hide?Right before the Allied invasion I do believe UN inspectors were given access to all the sites they asked to visit & they hadn't found anything. UN troops could have been sent in order to let inspectors do a better job, like having a true free movement over the different suspect areas of the country, meaning there were more options to look into before invading.

The FOX station tries to stay in the middle I won't try and argue with you that most print/TV media is liberal, but do you really believe that Fox tries to stay in the middle?

I think FOX tries, but they still tilt right.

Sounds like some pretty stringent political beliefs here.....and IMHO nobody will convince the other that their candidate is the better.....that's just how life and opinions go.

I will be voting for Kerry based on many things (and I'm not trying to convince anybody to vote for him....your own conscience applies) but last night on a local channel, I heard a comment from one elderly lady that kind of sums it up. When asked why she's voting for Kerry, she simply replied "because I've seen nothing get better for any of us over the last four years".

My $.02 and that's all you'll hear from me.

Bushy boy really is the better candidate in my opinion. OK, he's not perfect - far from it - but he is going to do what needs to be done to tackle some of the hard issues. In this day and age, we need strong government more than ever.

What are the hard issues? Judge him on his record--
-high unenployment
- more terrorists today than ever
-unnecessary invasion of a foreign country
-record deficits
-huge tax breaks for the wealthy
-cuts to state funding for the programs that affect you directly like police, fire and state universities
-worst foreign reations since the American Revolution- (remember this is a global war and our resources to combat it are almost tapped out)
----and on and on and on....

I realize he had a pretty impressive resume-
-A "Gentleman's C" student- Translation his daddy donated $
-Almost completed his flight training on an obsolete fighter jet that had about as much chance flying in the skies over vietnam as the Red Barron's Fakker.
-Successfully drilled several thousand very nice and dry holes in Texas- sombody should of told him he was supposed to have been looking for oil
-Had the foresight to trade Sammy Sosa to the Cubs right before he started hitting an obscene amount of baseballs into the stands thus avoiding a costly payout to Rawlings Baseball MFG
-One time Govenor of Texas- The Nation's bastion of Guns, Rascism, dirty politics, big boots-buckles and hats.
-And before he supposedly sobered up he had time to squeeze in a DUI and a few lines of coke.

Well, at least he's not a flip-flopper- he's nothing but a flop.

Your country is supposed to be the United States.
Lots of States, but NOT united. Maybe time to split them up again, Texas and California over to Mexico? Alaska back to Russia? Louisiana back to France?
Re-instate the Mason-Dixon line, and keep all Northerners and Southerners in their own part?

I was (happily) working for an American bank (Bear Stearns) here in Ireland, and only 2 months after 9/11 nearly half the staff (including me) got the blue letter from a company that, until then, prided itself in not having let go anyone in over 70 years!
The reasons where not solely 9/11, but the more than poor management of your country.
If you guys had had any decency 4 years ago, your president's name would have been Al Gore. Never mind that he claimed to have invented the internet, but he would have done a lot less harm than this sore excuse for a president you have now!

Your country is supposed to be the United States.Lots of States, but NOT united

Funny coming from someone who lives in the supposedly UNITED KINGDOM. ESPECIALLY IRELAND! :rolleyes: Hypocrit

Re-instate the Mason-Dixon line, and keep all Northerners and Southerners in their own part?

The mason dixon line never went away which is part of the problem- I actually think that it has inched north over the ages. I voted for Edwards in the primary with the logic that the sh**e kickers down south (no offense to non-kickers or those northern shite-kickers that may feel left out by this comment) are much more comfortable voting for a canidate with a southern drawl.

The reasons where not solely 9/11, but the more than poor management of your country.

What you don't think I should get a tax break for For buying a Humm Vee? (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/104601_hummer17.shtml)
COMMIE B******!

If you guys had had any decency 4 years ago, your president's name would have been Al Gore. Never mind that he claimed to have invented the internet, but he would have done a lot less harm than this sore excuse for a president you have now!

LIBERAL! FLIP-FLOPPER!

Wish I could buy ya a pint mate! :slurp:

- Please keep it civil here
Didou

Funny coming from someone who lives in the supposedly UNITED KINGDOM. ESPECIALLY IRELAND! :rolleyes: Hypocrit

I'll have you know that I live in the independent Republic of Ireland, which has fought on numerous occasions against the hated Brits!

We have nothing to do with that unsavoury bunch, that still occupies the northern 6 provinces of Ireland!

What you don't think I should get a tax break for buying a Humm Vee?
Everybody should have a Humm Vee!

Wish I could buy ya a pint mate! :slurp:
Wish I were there!

RBS my full apologies if you failed to realize what I thought was thinly veiled sarcasm. I not only share your tastes in beer, but also many of your feelings on American politics. When I called you a Commie Bas****rd it was as one to another.

I also apologize for using the word Bast*rd. I had no idea that Michael Powell monitored this site- oh wait- you can say that word on American broadcast television!

Your country is supposed to be the United States.
Lots of States, but NOT united. Maybe time to split them up again, Texas and California over to Mexico? Alaska back to Russia? Louisiana back to France?
Re-instate the Mason-Dixon line, and keep all Northerners and Southerners in their own part?

Perhaps we should make all the New England states 1 country, give some of Texas to Mexico, and let Arnold have California as its own country. I think we should keep Alaska though, they seem like a pretty cool state.

No real point to my post so don't go looking to hard to find one :monkey:
Just seems if we did all of what I said we'd be united, well unless you live in one of those states I axed.

Folks from Ireland trying to put thier 3 cents into American politics? What has this thread come to?

:bounce: give some of Texas to Mexico, and let Arnold have California :bounce:

I'm with you there :grinthumb

Alaska however is full of ultra-conservative gun-nuts that heat their mobile homes with government checks funded by pipeline revenue. They must be sold back to the communists.

To TS | CrazyAce:

My wife and children happen to have dual US/Irish citizenships, that should give me the right to at least have an opinion about the US.

To Godataloss:
I only took offence to your accusing me of that wrong nationality. I have been called worse things than commie bas...rd, but that is like water off a duck's back.

To everybody else:
I leave you to it, to sort out your politics: you getz as good as you givez.

Your opinion is based on what you are looking at across the ocean. What I am telling you is that most countries dislike the US because of jealousy. They then slander us in local papers/media/etc.

Sure the rest of the world would love to see Kerry in office in this country. It would give them a free ride ticket on the terrorist express.

All the polls say the country feels safer with Bush. When it comes down to it, it's the driving factor of this election. Bush will win.

Americans have short memories. Does everyone reading this thread remember 9/11? Do you remember the type of strong leadership that was show during this time? Do you remember how our commander in cheif made us feel? Do you remember how the country became united? Do you remember the amazing speach in which George Bush gave on national TV? Do you remember how confident he made us feel, and safe? He is a great leader.

GODATALOSS: You seem to have a true love for communism. You mention it quite often, which makes me understand why you would endorse a socialistic communist like Kerry.

Since this discussion is getting a bit heated I thought it best to add a little disclaimer here.

Any view put forward in this thread is not the official line of TechSpot. All the participants in this thread are voicing their views as private people only representing themselves (and their party preference).

Any official political stance for TechSpot will only be made by Julio on the frontpage.

Anyone who has an interest in the topic being discussed can do so, no matter race, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, political preference or hardware spec's, and your posts should be kept civil and polite even though you feel the person you are arguing aganist is a complete and utter ****.

If you have an urge to tell the aforemention person how you feel about (if (s)he's/it's an aborration to God, has a sexual preference for his/her/it's own mother or father, him/her/it is pimple on the worlds behind, is an a**h**e or b**t**d, or such sentiments) then use a PM!

Thank you for your time and co-operation :)

I won't criticize the internal afairs of the US. Sure, there's unemployment, schools & other matters are not getting the budgets they deserve, etc. but wake up & smell the coffee. This is happening everywhere. People are getting laid off everywhere, unemployment is on the rise wherever you look.

What I will criticize is the US foreign policy which is simply catastrophic. Globalisation has been forced onto us but it should not just be something for economics. Globalisation is not just having free markets everywhere in the world, it should also mean better co-operation between all the nations for all the matters that influence us all. Globalisation means a decision taken by one nation will influence everyone else & as such everyone should be consulted before the decisions are taken.

What I don't like about Bush & his government is that he has his agenda, tries to get you to agree with it & if you don't, too bad. He or his "technical advisors" do not even listen to the other solutions being offered. Oh, & the phrase "either with us or against us" is simply ridiculous. Things are not black & white, no matter how much you try to simplify the matters at hand.

I suggest we all say Amen to this thread, before it gets out of hand or too personal.

It's a good thread with good topic, why would it end?

If you cannot have a discussion and be civil, then you don't belong in a forum to begin with. That being said, you have to just sit back and enjoy the fun, as long as there are no direct insults towards others.

Thanks guys, Thread is now LOCKED. END OF DISCUSSION!