I've known for sometime that it's illegal to download music from P2P programs like bearshare or limewire. I was thinking about it and I determined that those who download the music shoul not be punished and that it should be the distributer.

Is this how it should be?

It is not illegal to download music over here. Complain to your local legislative body if you like :)

Let me put it this way;

You spend a large amount of time to create and write a song, you record it, and you are the sole owner of the song. You have no other job, and depend on the royalties for money. You used to make a lot of money from songwriting and singing and all of a sudded, your income is cut in half. You'd be pretty angry too. Just like if you made an OS and it got ripped, or you made a game and it got ripped. Especially with games and OS's, which take a lot of money to make.

Now you decide :)

Let's put it this way.. Do you write songs because you are an artist and you would die if you could not create or do you write songs to make money out of nothing?

You know, musicians did survive in the times before copyright law. Actually, the greatest musical masterpieces of all time were written when copying sheet music was a non-issue.

It is not illegal to download music over here. Complain to your local legislative body if you like :)

Okay so It's only illegal to distrubute it?

You used to make a lot of money from songwriting and singing and all of a sudded, your income is cut in half.

So now you can only afford a ferrari and not a lambo too?

That would be a shame.

Hehe good one twite.

It is not illegal to download music over here. Complain to your local legislative body if you like :)Okay so It's only illegal to distrubute it?
Nodsu lives in Estonia. He's not bound by US laws.

I do think, however, that music shouldn't be pirated. It is unfair for people to have to work and pay to make it and for others to get it for free.

It seems that LimeWire should be punished for not trying to stop music piracy.

So now you can only afford a ferrari and not a lambo too?

That would be a shame.

I'm sure you would be upset if you income was cut in half :( .

Buying induvidual songs and albums is the way to do it. It is unfair to the musicians to rip and illegally distribute their music. Independent artists especially ... it's hard enough for them to make money.

Just purchase the song's you like online ... The quality is better than most ripped songs out there these days anyway. I hate putting together a playlist and having some songs louder or softer than others :)

Prices for CDs are too high and the artist sees too little of that money, at least that is my belief on why music piracy is so widespread. I'm not sure I know anyone that pirates music that does it just because they can. They do it because they want something that they can't justify spending $15 or more for. iTunes sells stuff cheaper but it is like a more expensive (often lower quality) and is more restrictive than what you can ******.

But to answer the question, yes I think it probably should be illegal. But that is a question with a lot more backstory that must be included and thought about when answering.

Let me put it this way;

You spend a large amount of time to create and write a song, you record it, and you are the sole owner of the song. You have no other job, and depend on the royalties for money. You used to make a lot of money from songwriting and singing and all of a sudded, your income is cut in half. You'd be pretty angry too. Just like if you made an OS and it got ripped, or you made a game and it got ripped. Especially with games and OS's, which take a lot of money to make.

Now you decide :)

Obviously post count doesn't accurately depict wisdom

You truely don't understand what being a true musician is.

A true musician makes music because he loves music, and creating music. Music is what painting is to a painter. It's expression. That is the way a musician expresses themselves. When you talk do you want people to listen to you? Ill take the obvious answer. Its true that when you create music you put all your effort into it, but you want to be rewarded by it also. And people enjoying it is just enough. To make enough money off of record sales alone to live comfortably you MUST sell a million records. Record lables give you a very small portion from the price of the record, lets say 15 cents(Very good) but maybe for the whole band on an average of 25 cents a record. You must firther split it however many ways depending on how many people are in your band. SO lets say you make a record with 4 people in your band(counting you). You sell a million copies, thats platnium, extremely hard to achieve. Your record company gives your band 25 cents a record( extremely realistic to a big lable). that ammounts to around 250,000. Now split that 4 ways, 62,500. Now tax that, pay your producer also(if that was in the deal) buy musical equiptment for live play. ill say that will leave you with around 40,000...

doubleposting so i can finish what i have to say...

Now sense record sales don't pay you any more then an average office job how do rock stars live in mansions?

Live performances and merchandise...

I think It should be perfectly legal to download any song from any band, because all a musician wants is to be heard and if extremely lucky possibably be able to live off their music. If told anything else that source is a sell out.

I would say to download all your favorite artists albums. Then support them in their live show by buying a t-shirt and concert ticket with out complaint of the high prices.

Even if you downloaded every one of their albums you probably still will be giving them more money by just buying the t-shirt at a concert then buying everyy single one of their records in a corporate music store.

And if you buy cd's make sure its at a local record store not best buy/walmart/etc..

Well stated.

i think its fine to download there music as long as you go to the conscert and support them there.

i think it is ok to download music but not for free or just listen it on the internet for free, without being able to download. in this way, we show some respect to the person who worked for making that song starting from composing to recording it on CDs. That means time and money, and we should return that, to encourage that person to compose more.
But it will take a long time until all the world will do that. It will start with USA and Western Europe, but it's a difficult process to expand this project to all the countries. And I tell you why. Here, in Romania(where I live), people are not very rich, and they just can pay their bills, food and medicines. It's almost impossible to spend a lot of money on OCs, movies, music, programs so piratery is very advanced in this area. We can download illegal everything we want without any obstacles. Also hacking is high. All the Eastern Europe is the same. So first, people need to have a better life and after that, piratery swill slow down. Maybe you get my point.

Artists are entitled to just compensation for their work. Illegal downloading is stealing.

Well said, Tedster.

Don't know how it's stealing. I never "took" it away from anybody.

Illegal downloading is stealing.

It Actually is stealing.

But believe it or not...This thread is titled

Should it be illegal to download music?

Thanks for stating the obvious.

Piracy deprives the artists of the money that it took to create the music. Whether or not they need that money is not part of the issue; it is still stealing from them. If you're going to download their music, pay the price.

But can it be considered a loss of money? I wouldn't have bought it even if I couldn't downloaded it. So did I beprive them of money?

i'm a musician myself and i think that with unsigned/independent artists you should buy whatever you can no matter what the price is. however with large bands on major labels it's a bit different because they've made their millions and like somebody said earlier, shirts and shows is how they get their real money.

When musicians make music, a company has to publish that music for them, and that company receives more money than the musician does. That's not fair either. The musician did all the work after all. By illegally downloading (not yet illegal in Canada :D) you are mostly stealing money from the lazy *** publishing companies. Stealing a lot more from them than you are from the artists. Plus, the artists, while they do deserve to make money, they don't need to make $25 million a year. Should the common middle class people trying to make a living, those people who would be extremely happy to be receiving a $100,000 per year wage be helping someone else to get $25 million a year?

No.

It's because of us that all these movie stars and musicians are living in million dollar homes with 4 Ferrari's and more money than they know what to do with. They shouldn't blame us for causing them to make $25 million a year instead of $50 million a year. It's because of US that they make any money at all. They need to STFU. Nobody needs $25 million per year. There is no reason for them to have that much, and they seem to be getting on just fine considering the amount of piracy going on.

I say keep pirating. Keep downloading, and don't pay. I'd certainly NEVER pay for a song or a movie since everyone who is involved in them is making WAY more money than they deserve.

Here comes the RIAA to my door I'll bet...

Well... **** YOU RIAA, **** YOU.

(I feel the same way about sports players, although they can't be pirated ;))

Maybe MetalX is right. Maybe not. But eventually music is music and it speaks what cannot be expressed...Soothes the mind and gives it rest...Heals the heart and makes it whole..Flows from heaven to the soul....Music is the soul's food. Everybody should have access to it. And artists should make money from shows, concerts, T-shirts, original CDs and so on. I don't know. Its easy for us to say but I don't know what a musician have to say.

That was well worded MetalX.

"Way to go MetalX" Could not have said it better.

Artists are entitled to just compensation for their work. Illegal downloading is stealing.

So it's just compensation for me to pay fifteen dollars to listen to a new album, while the geniuses that made it get fifteen cents a sale, and the labels that sell it get ten dollars?

Yes, I believe that downloading music, games, or movies illicitly is stealing. I know that if the artists that made it subsist off the royalties paid to them by the labels and publishers, I would feel like $#!+ if I downloaded one of their songs. But the sad reality is this: I toil two hours to buy a new album for the sole sake of treating my ears and supporting creative expression for the artists I love; the record labels that mediate grow slothful, greedy and gluttonous as they chew on the fruit of my labors and drink the sweat of my day's work and revel in it. Meanwhile, the artists that create that masterpiece are barely paid enough from it to eat. Is it "just compensation" yet? For anybody?

The RIAA grasps at straws to justify the thievery, the pure, green-eyed debauchery that they engage in from day to day. They fight to keep us from having any right to "own" the music that we pay for. Which is to say that if I went out and bought a hammer today, and my good friend borrowed it to shingle his roof, that not even the smith that made the hammer, but the merchant that sold it to me, could come and lock me up. Is it just yet?

I mean to insult no-one by posting this message: nobody's knowledge, nobody's opinion. I think that your point, Ted, is well justified. And I think anybody that has the gall to take money from another human being, no matter how extravagantly that person lives, is stealing. But neither we nor the bards that live richly on our money are the most lowly. It is those at the RIAA, and Columbia Records, and Atlantic, and Virgin, and Capitol who are most lowly- for claiming ownership of something when the only hands they have laid on it, the only effort they have distilled into that lump of plastic that's in my player as we speak, is to affix a price tag to it. It's wrong. And it's sure as hell we aren't the only ones who are stealing.

Praise be to whatever deity that independent music still survives, however subsidized.

So, tell me, do you have a permission to use your avatar? Or did you steal it from some hard-working artist?
You also have lots of photos, videos and artwork on your homepage. Do you have the rights to do that?

Actually, the greatest musical masterpieces of all time were written when copying sheet music was a non-issue.

So, tell me, do you have a permission to use your avatar? Or did you steal it from some hard-working artist?

Right on, Nodsu!

The music and videos are all from either imeem, YouTube, or Google Videos. I'm sure that none of those sites, being in the corporate limelight, could escape justice if they offered users to option to illictly embed content. In fact, they wouldn't offer an embed code in the first place. However, they did, and made it readily accessible, so I assume it's legal.

The photos and artwork are all from google images. In my opinion, those who post without watermarking or disclaimers automatically open themselves to freedom of use by outsiders. But if any of them asked me to remove it, I would.

And while I hardly doubt that even the authors or creators would consider my use of their products stealing (and might even be glad I tried to be evangelical about my love of their work), I did take it from hard-working people, and always have the courtesy to respect their wishes, if they make them known.

However, this is entirely beside the point. I never accused any creator of music of fault, I accused the companies that distribute it. So before we jump to presumption that I'm disrespectful of those who take from their body and soul to make masterpieces like what I've posted on my homepage, and a pitfall of an ad hominem fallacy, let's clarify that no actions of mine were ever intended to harm those people. And then, maybe, the personal attacks can dissipate. After all, this is an ethical discussion, and any hypocrisy of mine shouldn't undermine my argument. Take it by word, guys.

The music and videos are all from either imeem, YouTube, or Google Videos. I'm sure that none of those sites, being in the corporate limelight, could escape justice if they offered users to option to illictly embed content.I suppose you don't read computer news much.. Anyway, how do you think they would check every video whether it contains any copyrighted material? A million monkeys that have learned every copyrighted piece of work by heart watching through every clip uploaded by all the users?

Oh, and there's this really popular website called ****** Bay.. Surely they would be shut down if there was illegal content there :)


The photos and artwork are all from google images. In my opinion, those who post without watermarking or disclaimers automatically open themselves to freedom of use by outsiders.But how about all the tracks on all the CDs that are not marked in any way?
And I sure haven't seen any disclaimers next to all the music tracks I see available for download on the internet?
How would one know if the item she is downloading was posted there willingly by the author and whether it is allowed to download it?

Nodsu, we get your point, don't push it.:)
Yes, everything on the internet has a owner and a copyright but we can easily use those things for our purposes and it's almost impossible to control this because there are like billions of images, videos, articles and more and who can take care of every little avatar?
The same thing is about music. But all this story is not an excuse. Yes, we can download music but the law says that it's illegal. In the dictionary stealing means taking something without the permission of the owner. If the song isn't free or we don't have a permission, we steal it. My point is that even that it is illegally, nobody can stop all the people on the earth from downloading. It's too much.

I saw that people have different opinions about this case, but if we think rationally and we study the law, downloading music is stealing and stealing is illegally, even, maybe, it shouldn't, for the reasons from the posts written before mine.

OK. But i downloading music is "illegal", then downloading enything else is "illegal" too. There is no way to know whether anything you download is "illegal".

So why should we punish the people who "illegally" copy one specific artform and let all the others go free? Only because the music industry happens to have the funds and lobbying power to push decision makers?

Instead of blindly following the "holy" law, people should stop and think about some things like:
- Should we honour laws that are obviously broken? Think about all the humorous laws like being forbidden to eat ice cream on rollerskates or whatever. Sure, most of them are thought up, but you get the idea.
- Laws are written by old corrupt geezers mostly motivated by lobby and money from certain interest groups. Only some laws are universal and undisputable like the ones forbidding murder.
- When talking about "stealing" and "rights", think about who says what is stealing and what anyone is entitled to.
- Laws are supposed to be impartial. The same punishment goes to everyone. Yet we see those people who download music punished severely, but not the ones who download images. Does the law say that music is in any way superior to other arts?

BTW, in my country it is legal to download music. So it sort of depends on what law one decides to "study" or follow blindly :)

Yes, I just wrote that. Downloading anything is illegal too(not only music), only if its free or you have permission. But because its very difficult to control this huge internet traffic, all this story of illegality is resumed only official, on the law's paper. So it will take a looong of time until someone will really can do something about this. BUT, the law is supreme and all those thing you wrote about it is your opinion but if someone is accused of downloading illegally, you cannot defend with that. As I said, ain't gonna happen in the near future.
In your country is official legal to download music or you can download with no problem, cause nobody cares and make investigations? For example, in my country(Romania), normally, its illegal to do that but our download is working non-stop without any tiny obstacle, no one really cares. That's different.

It is officially legal. Basically, we are all filthy uncivilised thieves, according to some people :)

Basically, we are all filthy uncivilised thieves, according to some people

Remember Katrina ?

I know this is a little off topic but i am in desperate need of finding the cracked version of bearshare...can anyone send me a link to download it? I used to have it but i deleted it by accident and now i cant find it. I have limewire and i think it sucks compared to it (I only download legal stuff:suspiciou ) Thanks

Techspot does not condone such actions of piracy.

No, we do not. But we are allowed to express our opinions that we think downloading copyrighted material should be called "downloading free information" instead of "piracy".
(Or at least I think we are, and if we're not... I have some unexpected issues with being a member of Techspot. Although Techspot is extremely pwnage :))

At the end of the day, downloading music is stealing. You hear it, you like it, you run to your PC and download it. then you burn it to listen to in the car or upload it to your iPod or mp3 player and listen to it walking around. Your friend hears it and likes it so you pass it on to him.

If you like the artist, support him so he will make more music. If you like the song so much, pay for it. Much easier and you can proudly say that you did not steal your music collection.

It's heaps cheap anyhow and as I said before the quality is much better than those you download (in some cases). I used to download alot of music but now I opt to buy it. Makes me feel like I'm doing something right for a change! :grinthumb

I know this is a little off topic but i am in desperate need of finding the cracked version of bearshare...can anyone send me a link to download it? I used to have it but i deleted it by accident and now i cant find it. I have limewire and i think it sucks compared to it (I only download legal stuff:suspiciou ) Thanks
You aren't going to get any help with that on these forums, or if someone does help you with that publically it will be deleted as soon as a mod comes across it.

Whether or not our members here use pirated software or download movies/music illegally is not of concern to anyone involved with decision making on this site. Where it becomes a problem is when information is posted on how to engage in these types of behaviors.

How ironic is that!:haha:
Here we are talking about how illegal is to download music and we encourage that piratery isn't a good thing and he makes a post right in this thread about finding a crack to a program which gives you the opportunity to download cracked programs and music.
:unch:

Let me put it this way;

You spend a large amount of time to create and write a song, you record it, and you are the sole owner of the song. You have no other job, and depend on the royalties for money. You used to make a lot of money from songwriting and singing and all of a sudded, your income is cut in half. You'd be pretty angry too. Just like if you made an OS and it got ripped, or you made a game and it got ripped. Especially with games and OS's, which take a lot of money to make.

Now you decide :)

But still, If you seriously like the person who sings the songs or what ever you're downloading, you'll still buy tickets for their concerts and Tshirts and stuff so it's not like they'll go bankrupt over the songs you'll download over Limewire :D

It's heaps cheap anyhow and as I said before the quality is much better than those you download

I completely agree that buying is the way to go, but I strongly disagree with the sentiment that music these days is cheap. Yes, it's far cheaper than back in the day when Granny had to go out and buy a wax cylinder to listen to anything, and run the risk of it melting in the pre-AC days, but it's still far from as cheap as it could and should be.

Remember the days when a traveling minstrel would be lucky if a family put him up for a day, even if he was the best performance to ever grace the village? Ah, those were the days. I bet he never had Ye Olde Record Label breathing down his neck, taking 98% of his profits. Bureaucracy sucks, eh?

so it's not like they'll go bankrupt over the songs you'll download over Limewire

Firstly, I'd be very careful about mentioning LimeWire on TechSpot. We don't take kindly to the name of any piratical program being brought up nonchalantly. And, though the artists are completely made, and they do get money from merchandise and live performances, it's still nice to give them a little gratification every once and a while. Especially independent artists: they make little enough as is.

A P2P program is not "piratical" in itself - it is the people who commit crimes, not computers.

If we went down that road, then pretty much everything computer-related (plus photocopiers, DVD recorders and any audio equipment with recording capabilities) would be taboo (because you can use computers for copyright infringement (and I believe most people here have done it (unknowingly at least))).

I completely agree, however, we did rib a guy earlier for mentioning BearShare. And both programs are, well, usually exclusively used for copyright infringement. Not to mention his quote:

not like they'll go bankrupt over the songs you'll download over Limewire

Which mentions it in a piratical context.

steal from the rich...give to the poor - robin hood

The poor in Robin Hood were starving. We are not. And we cannot eat music.

steal from the rich...give to the poor - robin hood

Times have changed.

Now it's more like 'steal from the poor... give to the rich'

Well, the artists still aren't exactly poor. Though I bet they yearn for the days of vinyl (and, in turn, lack of piracy).