TechSpotters,

Well I've only been back a few days and already two long time members have complained about my posting alternate anti-spyware utilities to the ones recommended in the malware removal guide at this site. Please keep in mind that this is an open forum and as such, people can make alternate suggestions. The only qualifiers I put on it is that you stay on topic and at least make some sense. I'll give you two personal examples.

I used to work for a Dell call centre and learned a lot from my peers. After working there a few months, I was a pretty good performer. So they put me on "callbacks" Basically, they would reserve one agent in a group of 12 to do this. There are times when the customer need to perform a long scan or installation. Another agent is designated to do all the callbacks for that group. When I did this, I saw first hand who the better agents were. And there were a few who were duds and a few who were AMAZING. I learned from the few AMAZING ones. My performance went even higher. You keep an open mind and you learn.

The other is that I have an engineering degree and they teach us that there is often more than one way to design or fix something. Persons outside engineering think it's some kind of precise discipline. WRONG!! Engineering is more a trade off off of many parts in an effort to reach a goal. There is often no one perfect design for everything or perfect, catch-all solution. I really noticed that over the years that different approach each have its upsides and downsides. You go with the one that will score you the big points or most points. You then just have to live with the limitations it necessarily brings.

Keep an open mind everyone. There's more than one way to remove spyware. There are many good anti-spyware utilities and techniques.

-- Andy

You were asking for members (on other threads) to install
AVG
Ad-Aware
Spybots S&D

But where is HiJackThis?
Just running these programs is not enough, and is not even required

Here is the discussion on the New Preliminary Removal guide:
http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic109461.html

It is has nearly 50 replies

Here is the guide now fully updated:
http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic58138.html


This has already been fully discussed
Do you want to add to this guide?

Kimsland,

I never posted to anyone NOT to follow the guide. I simply posted the 3 anti-spyware I recommended. They are highly recommended by other tech support businesses and sites. Not only that, they are all available for download at this site!

If I advised people AGAINST using the guide, then yes, I would be in violation of conduct. If I recommended using a utility that installs spyware, rather than remove it, then I would be a problem. What I am recommending is just another approach. And I can argue it works because I run my own computer servicing business and use them all the time, very successfully.

-- Andy

Yes, but support had not finished with helping the members that you posted to as the proceedure had not been completed (seeming it wasn't originally posted to them in one case)

I am asking you to post the guide link in future
Then check the logs
Then decide on alternative options

Although as I have mentioned I personally do not like AVG

By the way, I have stacks of experience; certificates; and ironically I worked for Dell for 6 years myself

edit:

Oh I forgot to sign off with my name

[COLOR="Red"]KIM[/COLOR]

Which Dell site did you work at?

-- Andy

Field Support

Another country

I don't want to list my personal stuff here though
Dell helped me with Laptops experience

I gained my true Support by having my own business, with a retail\tech shop

It was at Dell that I developed my list of recommended anti-spyware. While there, we recommended customers use Ad-Aware, Spybot Search & Destroy and Microsoft Anti-spyware. A year after I left, I started my own business. By then Microsoft re-launched their anti-spyware utility as Windows Defender. I noticed that it didn't seem to find very much, hardly anything. I then had a customer who sued AVG Anti-spyware and WOW was his computer clean! I looked it up and, yes, it was highly recommended. So I dumped Windows Defender for AVG Anti-spyware. A year and half later, they really do a good job as better than 90%, they remove offending spyware.

-- Andy

Yes, I agree with you, almcneil, but I also see Kims point. Posting something like that in the middle of an already confusing (in my opinion) process can confuse the needy even worse.

In other words, kimsland was not saying that you were wrong to post your opinion, you just posted in a, well, bad time.

Or at least I think thats what she is saying?

Ever since the creation of the spyware section I've got the feeling that unless you are ready to dedicate lots of time to it, you are just better off staying out. The guys that help in there have their own methods that are apparently established. Perhaps they aren't the most efficient way in all cases, but eventually they'll work, so they try and use a 'standardized' approach to make it easier on them. When others try to help and they see it being done differently they are likely concerned that maybe you'll not continue to help that person until the problem is solved, and then they are stuck with a user that has done some steps that maybe they (the new helper) don't know how they work or what they remove, or any potential side effects they could have on other things.

So in short, just avoid that area unless you are going to see things through in every thread you post in.

Yeah, I remember that a few members (can't say their names) were pretty much mentors for me. I would start helping someone but I couldn't ever keep up with it and they would take over. So I just stay away unless it's something I actually know how to help 100%.

If you are the only one helping and you are unsure what to do
Hitman Pro a free program, is kinda like an all in one

It is fully automatic, with the user only clicking on "Accept" or ideally "Accept All"

Do not confuse Hitman Pro, with an old spam program called Hitman.
Hitman Pro is totally clean, and if you decide to click the single uninstall link (in the Start menu), it will uninstall all programs it installed at the same time

Note: I'm not suggesting to replace the proven 8-step Removal Proceedure with this.
But if you want the user to try an easy, single click, automated process, this is it.

AMEN! To some, experience is like blinders and hinder objectivity.
To others, experience is a broadening experience where alternatives are a way of life.

Jeff -
Software Engineer

Brother!!

And you signed off too!! With a sig no less!!

Refreshing to hear a good attitude!!

-- Andy

Yes well don't forget to read here too: http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic114775.html

As for experience. Well there may be some debate here
I have 25Years experience, but I have seen some better posts made by younger members over almcneil

Isn't an open forum wonderful!! I mean everyone can express their opions and points of view!

I can take it.

-- Andy

I am a newcomer in training but bring 27 years experience to the forum. On top of my career, I also own/operate my own computer services business. I have kept an open mind here and learned a lot and provided suggestions on which I have been complimented for providing as helfpul information.

Kimsland: Having worked on virus eradication for many years, I agree with your perspective on AVG. It was the AV that we recommended for our users, but lately, especially since the switch to 8.0, it has become bloatware and misses alot of viruses/spyware or finds them but can't get rid of them.

I have found your removal guide very useful, and its especially important since many people who come here for advice don't have experience, to provide them a methodical way to attempt to clean their system.

Almcniel: Sorry if I didn't spell that right. I dont have the post on my screen. I also agree that keeping an open mind, is what keeps all learning and affords us the ability to help people make their systems better.

it's all good, and good to talk. I would personally like to thank some of the more senior tech spot members for making me feel welcome here and for guiding me in the right direction if I go off on the wrong track.

Tracy

As a newcomer to Techspot this thread makes for very interesting reading. Particularly the link from Kimsland showing the recommended cleaning procedure.

I'm not an IT specialist or retail vendor, but simply an amateur home PC user and enjoyer of such.

However, I have always been very keen to know which is the best security software to use. And for what it's worth, have spent many hours running hands-on tests with different brands of anti-spyware, anti-virus and firewalls.

I would do each test on a freshly loaded ghost image of a full operating system which I had deliberately allowed to become infected by running it with no security protection and visiting multiple web sites, downloads etc.

The procedure would consist of running one anti-spyware program, noting all the walware removed, and then restoring the removed spyware to the operating system from the "Recovery Vault". Then I would run the next brand of anti-spyware doing the same thing, and so on until I had tested all brands. This then gave an across the board spectrum of what each brand could do, and not do. If the removal of a particualr item of malware crashed the whole system, I would simply reload the ghost image and run the next malware removal program, to see if it detected and safely removed the same item.

I was limited to doing this with freeware programs. Unfortunately, as I did this two years ago, my information is outdated. However, as has already been stated, while I couldn't find any one-shot fix-all, some programs were way ahead of others.

I personally use AVG8 anti-virus/anti-spyware, backed up by Super Antispyware; and Zone Alarm fire-wall. I also use AVG RootIt Kit. I found the Microsoft anti-spyware pretty useless, and eventually went off Adaware and Spybot. I recently tried Avir anti-virus but for some reason it kept freezing up and simply would't run on my PC on either XP Pro or Vista Ult.

For the registry I found Ccleaner good, but it did not have a restoration vault, and it was necessary to create back-up copies of registry items. My preferred option is Easycleaner by ToniArts. It is very safe on registry cleaning; automatically creates a restoration vault option for all registry items removed; found many more items than Ccleaner; and has many other functions.

almcneil, I agree 100% that this is an open fourm, and of course you are allowed to post whereever you like so long as it within the TOS of the site. But you have to figure, is it needed? The method that is used in the Security section, is tried and true, I have pointed many people I know to it, and while it may take awhile, it has worked for them 100% of the time. Suggesting software in the middle of the thread that is not part of the instructions could get a little bit confusing for the average user. Of course it allowed, but is it courteous? Those guys spend alot of time looking over logs and dealing with limited knowlege users, so I think if they have a system that works, why cause a stir?

I would like to provide you with some historical data about 'kimsland' and exactly who you are addressing when speaking in a rather discourteous manner. Personally I am one that is not an expert not even one that I would consider in your same class. However I've used compuiters professionally and personally for years and have been successful in keeping it running smoothly (for the most part) I ran into a problem a few months ago that had myself and others that I spoke to completely stumped. After taking my issue to 'Kimsland' it was an easy matter of carefully following directions and without accusation without making fun of my lack of computer savvy Kimsland directed me in successfully resolving the issue that NO ONE else was able to correct. So when you speak rudely and discourteously to Kimlsland you may wish to think long and hard as to who you are addressing. As I'm SURE I'm not the only one that has had this experience with Kimsland.
(getting off my soap box)

----(wtihout signature)

With so much said, AtK Spade's sig has an excellent link for all of us to refer to every now and then to see if we are in line with forum expectations.

http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic33297.html <-- especially part 2 onwards relevant to what we discuss here.