Microsoft quietly updated its Games for Windows Live service to version 3.0 today. The biggest new feature, according to the company, is how users can now access the marketplace to buy content while playing any supported title and have it download and install in the background. The feature should help streamline digital distribution on PCs and follows a growing trend of generating additional revenue through post-release game content – Valve offers a similar feature on Steam and even Apple is supporting it for iPhone apps.

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Playing Fallout 3 for the last few months I've had to suffer with this gawd-awful Windows Live client. One of the worst clients I've ever seen, especially compared to how smooth Steam is. Maybe these updates will fix it to the point where I don't feel like I want to chuck my PC out the window sometimes.

I don't know about a lot of people, but I for one use a computer that's not even hooked up to the internet to play games and I refuse to hook up any console to the Internet. If they start making games that require "Gametags" and an Internet connection to play I'll just keep playing classic games. I don't mind paying for games but as it stands the cost is to high and requireing Internet for an offline game is pure crap. The war on piracy is going to far and for no reason, it's not going to stop nothing, people we'll just make a fake server, or simply remove it from the game. we've all seen it before. all there trying to do is mess up the Used game market so every buddy has to pay $50+ for a game that are year's old, and you can't get nothing back if you bought a lemon of a game. The only way this sounds good is UNLESS they make it so I can return a game 30days after I buy it if i don't like it. then I'd support it. At that point I chould get all $50 back for something that sucked rather then a $5~20 trade in value.


One last time so If any gaming company is reading this:
If you make it so I can't trade my games you better be willing to have them returned UP-TO 30DAY's later, for a full refound!

Well guest, you're in for a big disappointment and relegated to playing Solitaire forever if that's your stance. Online verification is the way it's going to be pretty much for every game now - and won't be long before you see it on console's too. You can thank the rampant theft of games for this.

As far as getting a full refund after playing a game for 30 days - that's a joke, right? If you can't figure out whether you like a game in 4 or less hours of play or not, there's something wrong. With your full refund in 30 days suggestion, you're basically telling developers, "I want you to make games for me to play for free."

Lastly, as far as re-selling or loaning - it's unfortunate. Like a good book, I'd like to share it with friends, but again - you can thank the rampant stealing for this.

I don't blame the developers for going down this road and know full well that when I buy a game, it's for me only (unless someone wants to come over to the house and play), and what I'm paying for is "x" amount of entertainment. That's why I don't buy until a game has been fully reviewed and I know it's going to be worth my investment.

"rampant theft of games"

It's just a line to hide behind well they destory the trading/used game market.

The only people I know that copy games are 1) Disabled and living on SSI and can't afford them. 2) Kids who are to young to work and have parents that want work with them at all to get it, and 3) A bunch of Lan gamers that already own 10+ copies and can't find copies of old lan games to buy any more.

I don't know a single person that can afford or has the meens to buy games that don't.

I think you both have the wrong idea, selling is an old business module that needs to just go away.

Artistes, musicians and writers make way more money when they develop there own stuff and give it out and ask for donations. most people will donate a good amount of money in hopes of seeing more of the stuff we love. I'm willing to donate way more then I'm willing to pay sense I know it's going to the people that are making it and not dozens of middle men.

Quite living in the past and think of the beauty of a open world. Where everybody can afford the media they want and support the artiest in a meaningful way!
As an artist you get closer to your fans and get all the money your work is really worth, not what some CEO thinks you should get.

Well that may be your personal experience with whomever you associate with, guest (and frankly, I find it near impossible to believe that you've never met anyone who hasn't illegally downloaded a game). But it is a well documented fact - I mean WELL documented, that literally tens of millions of illegal game downloads have occurred through the Bit Torrent sites over the last decade. The hottest games like Crysis and Spore have had well over a million illegal downloads EACH just within a month of their release.

Complain and be upset all you want - it is this level of theft that has caused the evolution of online game verification to go the way it has.

Ok so a million people out of millions grab a copy off the net, but what I want to know is how many BUY the game a few weeks later or a couple months later, and out of the ones that don't how many of them really have the money to buy it for the asking price? How many live in other countries were the game isn't available? How many are kids that can't buy them? how many people play more than an hour and decide they don't like it? you can't rent PC games, quite a few companies don't offer demo versions, and reviews are worthless 90% of the time 10mins of game play is worth 100,000words and screen shots.

I only buy games I know I like, play demos of ones I don't know if I like, and don't mess with any game that doesn't offer a good demo. Like Sacred 2 you can let other people install it and they can play up to level 10 without needing to buy a key. In this case you HAVE to have downloaded, bummed, or copied the game somehow in order to demo it. I'd wager the loss they really take on from piracy in gaming is more like 1/100th or even less of what they claim is there proposed loss.

After reading the other guest post I agree I think they should take their DRAM crap off their games and just put a donation button on their site. then I'd wager even the most of the extreme "Pirates" types would start giving up some money for their copies.

"After reading the other guest post I agree I think they should take their DRAM crap off their games and just put a donation button on their site. then I'd wager even the most of the extreme "Pirates" types would start giving up some money for their copies."

Nope - that doesn't happen either. Two examples: "World of Goo" game came out late last year and the cost was a lousy ten bucks. After receiving rave reviews, guess how many illegal downloads? Over a million. People wouldn't even pony up ten bucks for a great game.

Second example: Radiohead released "In Rainbows" in 2007 online for donation only first before releasing on CD. Pay for what you thought it was worth is all they asked. 1/3 of the people who downloaded it paid nothing, and the average donation over the other 2/3 was 4 bucks. This is one of the top bands in the world with one of the most highly anticipated releases and people wouldn't even pay enough to cover their recording costs. It was only when the CD came out that they made a buck on it.

Fact of the matter is, people steal because they can. I've heard all of the lame "the game wasn't worth it," "I wasn't going to buy it anyway," "the companies are ripping me off," etc., b.s. excuses ad nauseum. And that's all they are is excuses. The most weak attempts at trying to explain away why a person would steal.

So now the companies are doing what they need to circumvent that, it's the was it's going to be, everyone saw it coming with all the theft going on and now you either deal with it or you don't play. Just that simple.

How's it simple? you act as if any of this will stop piracy, sorry to tell you this but better companies have tried and failed at online and server said key stuff can anybody say Autodesk? adobe? Windows? Apple? as long as there is content that isn't free there will be piracy plain and simple. you don't even slow them down you just make their work that much more rewarding.

All this dose is **** over the average user nothing more.
Wake up and smell the lies, unless .... your one of the people paid to post the big brother knows best comments on these sites. statistics are a fun game of lies and decent you can make anything appear out of nothing.

As an FYI: $8/album donation is the real numbers and incase your to dense

If you ever been to a live show with good non-label music they charge $5-10 for their CDs they make them self's with cover art and all.

The artist them self's are lucky to make $1 off every $20 CD you buy, yeah you see more money but its ALL going to the middle man.

I don't know if I can post links here but have a read:
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

Radiohead's donate-what-you-want downloadable album "In Rainbows" has received an average $8/album donation, bringing in $10 million in one week with 1.2 million downloads.

$10 million sounds like a lot of money to me in a week... what do you consider good money?

"you act as if any of this will stop piracy, sorry to tell you this but better companies have tried and failed at online"

One word - Steam. And now it looks like Windows Live is following that same model.

I'm not paid by anyone, nor am I affiliated with any software group to say these things. I'm just an avid gamer, music and movie lover. Been watching for years while millions of illegal downloads have occurred - even by my own friends and family members (who could easily afford these items) and with complete indifference. As an IT professional, I knew sooner or later it was going to come back to bite them in the *** and warned them all. And that time apparently is now. Like I said, simple as that.

I don't really want to get in the middle of your guy'ss argument but... ah Steam... is really easy to get around....

Yeah... but with steam there's no reason to just last month they were giving you all things Half-life2 + bio shock + Fortterss for like $30 you just have to wait for the right deal and you can really get a lot for a little.

H-ll yeah if MS makes a Halo bundle and added a few extra games on top of it and charged $30 they got my vote

"Radiohead's donate-what-you-want downloadable album "In Rainbows" has received an average $8/album donation, bringing in $10 million in one week with 1.2 million downloads. $10 million sounds like a lot of money to me in a week... what do you consider good money? "

Post the link to show those stats, dude. Otherwise, I'm not listening.

Secondly, $10 million is nothing considering what it costs to produce an album. That's what they pay just in snacks for the band while recording an album.

Lastly, how about signing up for an account and being something other than a "guest" so we can follow your posts at TechSpot. Then we can all see if you're just full of crap or really know what you're talking about.

"Post the link to show those stats, dude. Otherwise, I'm not listening."- TomSEA

http://mashable.com/2007/10/19/radiohead-album-sales/


"Secondly, $10 million is nothing considering what it costs to produce an album. That's what they pay just in snacks for the band while recording an album." - TomSEA

"What the band got was an average of $8 per album sold, bringing estimates of profit to about $10 million." - mashable.com

"Accounting profit is the difference between price and the costs of bringing to market whatever it is that is accounted as an enterprise (whether by harvest, extraction, manufacture, or purchase) in terms of the component costs of delivered goods and/or services and any operating or other expenses." - Wikipedia

In layman's terms Tom..They made 10 million AFTER they bought those snacks

If the companies truly made games uncrackable, then people who pirate will just stop playing games. They won't pay for it. If you are poor and cannot afford it, you find something else to do that does not cost money. Just because you stop the pirates, does not mean revenue and profits will increase.

Kill the interest in games and kiss the industry goodbye.

Yeah i agree Tom. I download because I can. I can pay easily but choose not to. I mean waste gas to go to a store when I can just download zippy split for free. Yeah those are lame arguments for why they download for free. I don't know what the answer is. I think if things were cheaper and easy. Like you know...download all the games you want for a cheap price. yeah OK.. That'll never happen... So FREE for me.. yippee