Introduction


Welcome, it seems to me that there have been many people here who have bought cheap computers, only to find that the computer contains only pci slots, with no way to add a traditional agp or pci-express x16 video card. Many of these people only find out they can't upgrade after buying the computer and trying unsuccessfully to install "the newest game," having it not run at all, or very slowly with the integrated graphic chip. Then these said people try to find out how they can get "the newest game" to run on their computers, and so they hit the forums, like techspot, for advise and help. Many people will suggest the latest $100-$200 video card for agp or pci-e, without thinking that the person could possibly not have an agp or pci-e slot. Then, some brave soul breaks the bad news that the system in question only has pci slots. Some people then lose all hope and say that no pci card would be any better than the integrated chip in their pc. Today I will be testing one of the best pci graphics card currently available(as of 2006), the nvidia 6200, to see if it really is as slow as integrated graphics (as some say), or if it does give pci only systems new life. I hope this article will help people with pci only systems decide what they should do.

The reason I care about the subject, is that I too was in a situation several years ago where my pc only had pci slots and I wanted to play "the latest game" which I had purchased. My system was a dell dimension 2300, but the 2350, 2400, 3000, and B110, are similar as well.


Vnf4ultra's PCI 6200 Review



Specs

Manufacturer's LINK
Made by 3DFuzion
Part: 3DFR6200P
350MHz Core Clock
4 Pixel Pipes
64bit Memory Interface
128MB ddr memory @ 400MHz
Pci Interface



Where to buy?
Edit: Product is now deactivated on newegg, but they still maintain a link for reference.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143058


The card I tested has been discontinued now, but Jaton, EVGA, and XFX all make pci 6200 now.
*Asterisk indicates my picks based on performance, features, and price.

Jatons many cards.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814139010
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814139013
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814139025
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814139024
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814139023
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814139022
XFX has one too.
*http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150288
EVGA also has one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130289

Note: At this point (early 2008) I'd recommend the x1300, x1550, HD2400pro, 7300gt, or 8500gt pci cards.



X1300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814129072
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814129069
*http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814129062
X1550
*(if you can fit a dual slot card)http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161074
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...1644&CatId=319
HD2400Pro
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131082
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814103056
*http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...2044&CatId=319
*http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec....iteria=4742161
7300GT (does not seem to be available in US)
http://www.sparkle.com.tw/News/SP85_...3_PCI_EN1.html
8500GT(does not seem to be available in US)
http://www.sparkle.com.tw/News/SP85_...3_PCI_EN1.html
http://www.dollarshops.eu/product_in...oducts_id/1117



Memory Interfaces?

Some of you may question whether a card with a 64bit memory interface can compete with cards with a 128bit memory interface, like some nvidia fx5500, or fx5200 cards. I at first questioned this, since it seems like "everywhere" online people claim that all 64bit cards are total trash, and that the worst 128bit card would beat the best 64bit card. I then found an interesting benchmark comparing 64bit 6200 cards to cards like the 5200, 5500, and 9550, in which the 6200 came out on top. Note the cards in question are agp, so pci performance is less, but the percent differences between cards should be similar when comparing pci cards.
Here's the link.
http://www.digital-daily.com/video/n...up/index02.htm

Gallery

Some pictures










Test Setup

System 1: Dell dimension 2300 with 256mb pc133 ram, pentium 4 1.8A ghz 400fsb cpu, and intel integrated 845gl graphics.

System 2: Custom built pc with 256mb ddr400 single channel ram, athlon 64 3000+ @ 2.25ghz, and an nforce 4 chipset.

I used the nvidia 81.98 drivers in both cases.

Benchmarks

System 1

Before
I ran aquamark3, an older benchmark on the 2300 with it's integrated graphics and got a score of 180 for graphics, 2714 for the processor, and a final score of 1752.

After
I then installed a pci nvidia 6200 128mb card and ran the same benchmark. The results are a score of 2130 for graphics, 1993 for the processor, and a final score of 13,885.




So this shows that in my case, the 6200 is approximately 7.9X faster than the integrated graphics that came with my dell. That's significant in my opinion. Keep in mind that I had no other pci cards installed to "compete" with the video card. If you have a pci sound card, or other pci cards installed, it may seriously degrade performance.

System 2


Running aquamark3 resulted in a score of about 15,000+ on this system.
I then ran 3dmark05 and got a score of about 620.
I then proceeded to play several games with the 6200 to see if it yielded "playable" framerates. I tried command and conquer: generals, america's army, and far cry. All were playable with the 6200. C&C:G ran very well, and so did america's army. Farcry also ran reasonably well at 800x600 on medium setttings(more ram would help, I used only 256mb).

Edit: I ran 3dmark06 with the PCI 6200 on my dell 2300. System has 1.8 P4, 512MB, and PCI 6200.






Vnf4ultra's Conclusion

So, my concluson? My conclusion would be that if you have no agp or pci-e slots, and can be satisfied running their games at a low resolution(800x600), and with low or medium settings on more demanding games, then getting a pci 6200 would be the a very good option for you.

Now, if you don't want to settle for lower resolution and lower quality, then you have basically two options, upgrade your current system's motherboard to one that supports add in graphics cards(and buy a video card), or buy/build a new computer.

I've upgraded my dell 2300's motherboard to a gigabyte 8IG1000MK motherboard to get an agp slot to add a video card. This way, I can add in whatever graphics card I want in the agp format, and get decent gaming results. Things to keep in mind when upgrading are to get the correct form factor for the motherboard(most all pci only systems are micro atx, or else a proprietary board design), the cpu socket type, the graphics upgrade slot(agp or pci-e x16), and the memory type. It is advisable to get a new copy of your os(xp) and do a reinstall after the motherboard replacement, so be sure to back up your data before the motherboard replacement.

If you do decide on a new system, just be sure you get one that has a good cpu, and has a graphics upgrade slot.

If you are in this situation and are still unsure or need help, feel free to post and/or PM me. I'm glad to help.

-vnf4ultra-


_________________________________________________




F1N3ST's PCI FX5500OC Review
http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic58696.html


_________________________________________________

PCI Graphics Card Benchmark Chart





Agp 128bit 6200 included for reference, pci 6200 is 64bit.

You CAN contribute to the pci benchmark chart if you have a pci video card.
I just need to know your aquamark3, graphics card(also if oc'ed), cpu (type and speed), and system memory amount.
If you want to be included you can pm me this info (hopefully my box won't overflow), and I'll try to add them to the benchmark chart.

__________________

Where will you spend eternity? Have only PCI slots, but want to play games?
My Quiet Rig: A8N5X, 2GB G.Skill HX, Opteron 165 @ 2.5Ghz, ASUS 8600GT 256MB Silent, Samsung 940MW, ZALMAN 600W

nice post.. i wish the guy i was selling my video card to saw and read this post before having me deliver my card to his home to install it.. and finding myself staring at PCI slots instead of PCI-e..

i was in that same predicament i didnt even bother really gaming on my comp until i built myself a 2000 dollar one after saving forever that is really helpful i think it should become a sticky even tho i dont need it thanks.

Thanks for the info! Great article!

i also have the 3dfuzion 6200 but i had some major probles when installing the card...

windows said that the video drivers are not signed by windows and the drivers failed to load any games.. so i used my old fx5500 drivers and the card seemed to work fine... but now my 6200 will not plat videos... except youtube or google videos... im not sure what to do.. have you experienced this problem?

does anyone have the bfg 256mb 6200 oc for pci? how well does it perform in comparison to the 128mb 3dfuzion card?

It looks like in the newegg reviews some people had issues playing .avi files, but it seems the 84.21 drivers fixed their problems.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_84.21.html

Hope this fixes your problem.

I have a Dell 2350 with a Celeron 1.7 processor. What form factor
does this computer have, micro atx??? Can I replace it with any
micro atx motherboard CPU combo?? Do I need to buy a copy of XP
to do it or can I use a dell reinstall??

Sunshinedd

just got one of these bad boys today
i hope it will work with my dell optiplex as it only has aobut a 250 watt psu hasand has no way to turn off intgered grafx

The board is Micro ATX (MATX).
Any Micro atx board should physically fit, but usually the front panel connections on your dell case won't match up with the new motherboard, so therefore will need to be modified somewhat to work properly.
You shouldn't have a problem reusing your cd drive(s), hard drive, or memory(if you have ddr).
It is possible to reinstall with your current xp, but I'm fairly certain that it would not be legal to do so. Oem versions of xp are designed to be only used on one motherboard. Microsoft believes that a new motherboard = a new computer so therefore they "need" more money for a new copy of xp for the "new computer."

My 2300 had no bios options to disable onboard, but it automatically did it for me when I installed the 6200.

Best wishes to you both.
vnf4ultra

i jsut installed it and it works great with the latest drivers for nvidia i think its 90. something

i was worried abpout the pwoer supply bebecause i heard it was only around 100 watts

Thanks for the info!!!

i was wondering if i could upgrade the processor on my 2400... i know it is a socket 478 intel.. but i heard it can only handle a p4 with a northwood core... does anyone know? srry this is a little off topic

You're correct northwood only, no prescott. Also, it supports only 400 or 533fsb, not the newer 800fsb.


Based on that, here you go.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116215
Surprising it's still available.

Here are your detailed specs, if you wanted to know.
http://support.dell.com/support/edoc...m_en/specs.htm

well that really sucks... is that the only northwood you have found? gah why does this have to be so complicated...

will that chip be much an improvement over my curent processor? ive got a p4 2.66?

I think the best you could get is a 3.06 w HT and a 533 fsb northwood core.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/Det...px?sSpec=SL6PG
available from:
http://powerleap.com/Processors.jsp

OK, so I have the same problem in wanting to upgrade my video card on my Dell 2350 but there is a twist in my problem. I also want to add a second monitor to my system. I'm not a gamer so the increased performance isn't really my goal although I would obviously not like to see a decrease in quality/performance. I just want to be able to add a second monitor (2 Dell 1907FP's).

As I understand it, I am limited to a PCI video card since the current AGP is integrated with the mother board (Intel 845 G/GL). I have a P4 2.2G and 1G RAM. I also have the original power supply which I believe is 250W?

Is there a PCI video card that could accomplish what I am trying to do? I have heard that most new video cards require more than a 200W power supply. Would I end up just having to upgrade that as well? I'd prefer not to. The more upgrades I make, the more likely I am just to buy a new PC with most of these options built-in.

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

I tried adding a video card to my 2350, even added a 450w power supply, it wouldn't run! I thought maybe they had shipped me a bad card but when I put it in my wife's HP it ran fine.
I tried a different card and it did the same thing, no signal to the monitor. I know the PCI slots are working because I have a sound card installed and it works fine!!!
I gave up. I'm building a new computer next week as soon as all the parts get here. I'll either use the Dell as a back up or sell it on E-Bay. If anyone wants it let me know.

What card were you using?

smsnead1, any pci card with both dvi and vga, or dual vga should run dual vga monitors. In the first case you'd need a dvi to vga adapter.

For example, this card is cheap, and has dvi and vga, and includes a dvi to vga adapter, giving you two vga connections or a dvi and a vga connection.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143058
Be sure to use these drivers with that card though, for best results.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_84.21.html

Would 2 of these 6200's work good, and would it be able to play CS:S

There's no SLI for PCI cards that I know of. You'd only be able to use one of those 6200's at once unless you mean multiple monitors.

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