Meh, this discussion can go on forever.

I personally reckon that downloading stuff off the net without permission is illegal. There isn't any other way around it. Whether or not that is fair is a different story I reckon.

I think I'll just say that I do download some illegal content. But I see it as "demo"ing :P. If I really like whatever it is I downloaded, I'd buy it (if possible). (Only if I like it, I hate Windows. I like Office 2007 though, gunna pick up a copy one of these days).

I really don't care about how people decide who is rich or not. I know that someone who's making $100k a year don't have to make someone who's making $2.5m a year $20 richer.

If these guys really want to make more money, find a way to make piracy work for you. There is such a great distribution network out there right now, make use of it. Distribute all music for free, charge for other things which you can't distribute (concerts, games servers, memorabilia, support services, etc). The consumer gets what they want, they get what they want.

I second this, the large amount of money does not go to everyone who puts work into producing the song etc, these people get payed £%@* all, the royalties go to paying for lavish lifestyles for people who do no more work than you or me.
So woe is the artist if they suddenly discover theyre only getting paid what the rest of us do, downloading music does not take money away from anyone who needs it, i dont cry with pity for Bill Gates and his mere however many billion dollars he has as i install a downlaoded copy of vista.
So from a moral point of view i can see no reason not to download music. Since law should be designed to uphold common morals theres no reason for downloading music, films, software from large companies etc. to be illegal.
And another thing, I recently bought a king of the hill dvd from amazon.co.uk, and at the start of the DVD are endless trailers for Dolby etc, and a 3 minute anti piracy video (which cannot be skipped). I got so fed up with watching this every time i turn on my dvd player I went and downloaded the entire season i just bought and watched it on my pc instead. I get the feeling they have shot themselves in the foot there...
(sorry if this is repeated, I only read pages 1 and 2)

Maybe the thread should be called "Is it wrong to download music?"

"Illegal" means "against the law". And, as I have said before, law is just some gibberish some people have written down. None of us can say that we "think" that something is illegal or not. Copyright law is specific. We can only discuss whether something is wrong or not.

Nice site, that stealingisillegal.com, but it was obviously made by someone who things US is the centre of the universe. Different countries have different laws. Some laws allow copying for private purposes. Different versions of the copyright law have different copyright aging times.

I don't even know if downloading crap off the net here is illegal or not.

I really should check it out, or does anyone here knows?

I think everyone's scared to post here... fear of howard closing the thread or one of the other mods

About the cars, speeding puts other people in danger. That's why they arrest you. Downloading does not put others in danger.

And the bottom statement does match my logic. If someone stole money and gave me some, I would not consider that the money they gave me was stolen.

It is a different story if I told them to steal it for me... but if they stole of their own accord and decided to give me a portion, then I would accept that as a gift, not as a theft.

I have to admit that I have downloaded music. But, I have had to buy some albums twice eg vinyl and CD. Also what some people dont realise is that it can lead to increased sales. e.g I download songs that I would never normally buy just to check them out. If I like the music/group/artist I have gone and bought, CDs DVDs and downloads legitmately. I like to have the genuine article if I like it!

No.
I agree!
I would.
Why would somebody jack stuff for you?

Technically it is stealing but then how many artists have been made by downloads? legal or otherwise? Popularity, word of mouth etc. People only download 'successful' artists who generally have already made it. It is a marketing tool.

I have lost count of the number of times I have bought albums in the past because I liked the sound of a track only to find out the rest is crap! Who is cheating who then? At least I can hear before I buy when downloading. It is like taking a test drive in a car.

Its so sad to see this thread die off, so I'm reviving it...

I still don't know if downloading is illegal in Australia.

But don't we all want this thread to die off? I mean all it's doing is sending everyone (myself included) into big rants.

rant on!

I reckon we should send around a petition to get the RIAA disbanded

That is a great idea! No really. We could try.

The root cause for either illegal downloading or copying is the margin made by the industry out of the artists. There is a parallel in the IT industry. The argument goes that if the price was "right" we would all buy originals. The same goes for Gucci and the fasshion trade I suppose.