jonmcc33 - Its clear you won't switch to OS X unless (and even then probably not) it is released natively for traditional Windows boxes, thats fine, but the debate on why you think Vista is just as good doesn't need to continue here, in another thread fine.


Back on topic - I tried a few times to get it to work on a Pentium D system with repeated failures. I've since gotten rid of that system (had too many PCs anyway) and am considering trying it on a C2D E4400 system. Hopefully that goes a little better.

Sidebar isn't a Vista thing. It's just included with Vista. You can get it for Windows 2000, XP and Server 2003 as well...

In regards to file sharing, it works the same was as it does in Windows XP and any other OS. Of course there is the Network & Sharing Center that is different but it rolls a lot of new features into file sharing.

But setting up a share hasn't changed at all.

The best thing about Vista is the Search capability. Go to Start and in "Search" type in anything. It will auto-fill results in the Start Menu for you. Quite easy actually.

All versions of Windows Vista have Shadow Copy.

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windo...windows-vista/

Don't be confused. I am not a Vista fanatic. I'm just very familiar with it. I actually enjoy Linux quite a bit more.

Won't switch? Well, when I get a few thousand dollars that I can afford to throw away just for the sake of being able to use Mac OS X then maybe I'll "switch". That's besides the point that I am trying to make, which is merely that Apple will gain quite a bit from selling a universal OS as opposed to their computer line.

In regards to your failed attempts with a Pentium D, I wouldn't blame that all the way. It doesn't work on my Core 2 Duo E6400 either. I'm going to drop my PATA DVD burner for a SATA burner to see if that works better. I don't think "Hackintosh" likes my JMicron PATA controller very much. Not sure...

Didou:
They will never get it -- give up.

PC people are not Mac people and conversely. They work, think, and act differently.
I've had both since '89 and watched the parade for decades now -- it's been very interesting.

I've preached "it just works" forever and to whoever will listen.
I'll refrain from doing so here as T.S. is clearly biased toward PCs --
let's just agree to disagree on the theological nature of Macs vs. PCs

The last time I checked (which was probably about two weeks ago), they were charging about $200 for a 2GB module meant for late-model Macbook Pros. Yes, still a substantial markup, but just wanted to clear that up.

Also, have you looked at PC vendor prices? I just recently had a client tell me he wanted to upgrade his harddrive (Lenovo 12"). He found a 100GB drive on Lenovo's website for nearly $250. I told him that would be crazy, bought him a 160GB drive AND installed it for nearly half that. So this isn't just Apple... Your argument that Apple is price gouging implies that other manufacturers don't, which is misleadingly false... although that certainly doesn't change the fact that they are expensive.

And honestly, their products aren't THAT much more expensive. Look at what you get with the MacBook Pro and compare it against any other PC laptop with roughly the same specs at about 1" thick. First off, you won't find many. Secondly, you'll notice there really isn't that much of a premium, considering. Granted, you don't get much bang for your buck - but again - you are paying for that 'experience' and the unique features + homogeny that the Apple Universe offers.

You answered the argument to this yourself. Apple's main selling points are its OS and the 'Apple experience'. As long as Mac OS remains a compelling product, people will buy their expensive hardware because they are locked in. If they offered OS X for non-Apple PCs, eventually people would be running OS X on cheap PCs. Not ONLY would that would cut into Apple's hardware profits, but it would chew up OS X's polish and shine because some things work on Mac OS only because its on an Apple platform.

You don't seem to (Well, I think you refuse to) understand it. Apple isn't just another regular computer vendor like HP and Dell. They want to control your experience from top to bottom, service to parts. People choose Apple - not only because it is chic and trendy - but they want that experience. This is worth money to some people...

Because of the control Apple has over its own (sometimes rebranded) products, they can do things like the slick and drop-dead simple Airport Admin Utility or turn an Apple computer into an external firewire disk by holding the "T" key during boot... These are just a couple of things that only work because Apple itself has its grubby little mitts in everything related to it.

Also, because of that homogeny, they can offer good quality support. Actually, there are LOT of advantages to having a small product ecosystem. More than I care to talk about or could even think of. Apple is reaping that benefit of that small ecosystem right now as about 1 out of 11 laptops sold are Macbooks. And if you look at it in the correct perspective (manufacturer vs manufacturer, not just PC vs Apple), that makes them a huge player among the top laptop brand names.

Yeah, I'm a PC person myself. I don't like being 'locked in' and certainly like paying 'too much' for stuff. But there are reasons to all of the recent Apple phenomena, as much as you don't want to believe.

Macs are already using x86 technology now. There's not much that separates them from the PC in regards to hardware.

Biased towards the PC or Windows? The PC, sure. It's the "open source" technology of the world. Any PC parts can fit into any PC computer and work as long as there are drivers for the OS.

If you think I'm biased towards Windows then you've clearly missed my Linux comments. I'm a happy Linux user as well, thank you.

Go to apple.com/store and select the 13-inch white Macbook. It comes standard with 1GB RAM. Upgrade to 4GB RAM is $500. I guess they've dropped the price in the past week. Still, you can buy that same thing for $100 from NewEgg, even "made-for-Mac" DDR2-667. So they are charging a huge premium and for what?

I'm comparing Apple to the PC, not Apple to PC OEMs (vendors). You cannot put a Mac together piece by piece like you can a PC. So you MUST purchase a Mac as a whole.

Oh no! It wouldn't matter if they ran OS X on cheap PCs because Apple would at least profit from the purchase of the license for the OS. Instead they get NOTHING because Windows owns 93% of the market.

You keep bringing up PC vendors. I'm not comparing against those. The PC wasn't based upon vendors like HP and Dell. The only thing you really gain from a vendor is their tech support and warranty. That's about it. That's what sells a Dell or HP.

Recent Apple "phenomena"? If there has been any peak in interest it's because Apple switched to x86 technology when they grew a brain.

Firstly, the 'vendor' hard drive example is a counter example to your '$850 4GB DDR2' upgrade... Not some sort of Lenovo-represents-the-PC-Market vs Apple comparison... Because both you and I know you can use standard PC memory. So your counter point is irrelevant.

Secondly, if comparing Apple to PCs, why not compare them to PC OEMs? That's really the only relevant point to make. Not once have you actually argued the DIY PC angle, so why is it an issue now? Don't change your argument on me...

It just won't sink in... IT IS NOT ABOUT MARKET SHARE. It is about the Apple experience. THIS is the reason they don't turn OS X into some universal PC commodity... not 'market share'. You can ignore this all you want, but your point is invalidated by this. OS X on proprietary Apple computers is a philosophy, not a rubber stamp factory.

And you know what, increase market share for what? Great, so now instead of being half of Microsoft's market share value, they could be worth just as much? Maybe more than MS? Has it occurred to you that Apple is already huge and this doesn't really matter? Apple is doing their own thing and it appears they are doing just fine without your insight.

Then what ARE you comparing? DIY PCs? Again, you haven't mentioned this angle before, why now? Your argument has been Apples are expensive and Apple charges too much for their stuff. If you want to compare things in a way that makes sense, you need to compare PC vendors to Apple. If you want to talk about DIY PCs, then you need to come out and say it.

Yes, Intel is a huge reason, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple has doubled its market share since the switch... And it is still increasing. Whatever they are doing seems to be doing OK.

... Yeah, just like 2000 and XP. And again, and again (since I feel it is necessary to repeat it to you) it is about the 'Apple experience'. The fact you can use Time Machine to backup to an external drive and boot from it by holding down the Option key without any special modifications, is part of that experience... And again, that is why Apple has a "closed system" way of doing things. And like Didou tried to get across to you, Backup and Restore in Home Edition is a stripped down version that doesn't do a complete backup.


You know, I'm not an Apple fan. But the more I discuss this with you, the more I like Apple. Thanks for that.

You're really going off on a tangent here, you know that right?

It's been off tangent for awhile. lol. But thanks for the heads up.

Well, no, because this thread is about Mac OSX x86 which would be using it on a PC. No need to go on and on about the greatness of Mac hardware. That's the part about going off on a tangent.

FYI, your word usage of "been off tangent" is not proper. That would mean is "off off topic". A tangent is where something diverts from it's main course or in this case topic.

Here you can see proper word usage in a sentence: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tangent

Just to let you know as we don't want any misinformation here.

nit - nit - nit. Of course you're correct.

the platform is so unique and as this site is so biased to PCs, personally, the more
info re Macs at all adds to the body of information available.

One of the nice parts of Techspot.com is the gentle, non-aggressive attitude of the members.
Let's not turn it into another Geek-I-Am-King-of-the-hill site please

You will also see posts from around the world that were obviously made by non-native english speaking persons --
let's be forgiving and seek to solve issues, not grammar

Considering your very first post in this thread was about how outrageously expensive Apple hardware is, followed by a string of replies (posted by yourself) which include criticisms of the Apple ad campaign and their decisions, you'll have to blame yourself too. In fact, the OTHER off-topic replies in this thread are a direct result of your own off-topic replies. This thread was on-topic before you came here. So, I consider your argument invalidated by your very own hypocrisy.

FYI, picking on grammatical errors is something that people do when they have nothing worth arguing, but still want to make some cheap shots. It's a desperate attempt and thus far, truly the pinnacle of anything considered "off-topic discussion" in this thread. It should have been "off on a tangent" - My apologies for the mistake. I won't bother pointing out your mistakes...

I see your points but my whole thing from the start has been about getting Mac OSX onto a PC, which is the subject of this thread last time I checked. Then people started chiming in with their personal opinions and that really had nothing to do with this thread at all...

The thread was about getting OS X onto a PC, you are right about that. But it wasn't about convincing Apple to officially allow it. The thread was on unstable ground initially because not a whole lot of talking about putting it on a PC is going to not be in violation of our posting guidelines. I'm not even sure if we would allow public discussion on how to install it or how to troubleshoot installation problems.

So I'm not really sure that you can even get too far off topic on this since the on topic stuff would likely end up deleted.

I can't see any reason for Apple to officially support their OS on regular PC hardware for the reasons Rick and Didou described earlier.

I' mactually installing mac osx on my pc ight now, nothing beats four hdd's, ha ha
i jsut got a pci raid card so now I've got the possibility for five totaly hdd's, the two ide, two sata on the raid and my external. I'm just having a problem getting mac to install, I'm on try number two, for some reason it doesn't seem to want to install correctly.

You might want to try a little more simple of a setup there.