As part of our ongoing series that reviews the history of popular game franchises, TechSpot ran down the games in the Civilization franchise. We had an opportunity to sit down with the composer of the legendary title track for Civilization IV, Baba Yetu, Christopher Tin.
Tin is a champion of video game music and works passionately to grow the perception of video game soundtracks in the wider culture of classical music. Join us as we chat with Christopher about where video game music was, what it's like to compose the first video game music to win a Grammy, to where video game soundtracks might be headed. The interview is edited for length and clarity.
TechSpot
Do you remember what your gut reaction was way back when Soren Johnson [Civ IV lead designer] reached out to you and asked you to compose the title track for Civilization IV?
Christopher Tin
I think it was, 'I'd better do a darn good job.' It's been mentioned before, though, that I grew up actually playing Civ. I had Civ on my mind because when I had met up with him at our five-year reunion, he had just finished doing Civ 3. A couple of months later, he sent me a copy of Civ III. And so I'd been obsessively playing at that very moment. When I got the call saying, "Hey, so, Civ IV is a thing that's happening. Would you be interested in being on board?" So yes, I mean absolute elation, and honestly felt like a little bit of an opportunity that I better not screw up.
TechSpot
Before working with Civ IV, did you consider composing for video games a viable route for you as a composer?
Christopher Tin
No, not at all. Video game composition wasn't really talked about back when I was just coming into the business. I graduated from Conservatory in 2000, we [Soren] reconnected in 2003, and it [writing music for video games] wasn't something that I was aware of. It wasn't really on my radar screen.
TechSpot
You have an impressive educational background, attending Stanford and then the Royal College of Music. How was video game music taught or perceived in these prestigious locations in a pre-Baba Yetu world?
Christopher Tin
It simply wasn't mentioned. It was never put on my radar as a viable career path, even in Conservatory. At the Royal College of Music, I was in a Master's program in composition for screen. All we talked about was scoring films, TV, and shows, and that was it. Trailer music and library music, but no mention of video games whatsoever.
TechSpot
Why do you think video game music wasn't on the radar of education in those early days?
Christopher Tin
I think it just hadn't matured. I don't think anyone was thinking negatively of it, and to be honest, I do not know what the state of gaming technology was in terms of affording opportunities for composers to write music at the time. I was in school from 1999 to 2000 so that predates my memory and understanding of the game industry, so to speak. It's not maybe the opportunities weren't there. I mean I'm fairly certain that the program like the one that I did at the Royal College if gaming were a viable path that a lot of people could pursue, they would have introduced it as a module, I suppose. But it just wasn't really talked about ever, and I'm not 100 percent sure why.
TechSpot
How do you think that might have changed after the mainstream success and the cultural shifts that were triggered in part by the success of Baba Yetu [Civ IV theme]?
Christopher Tin
I think that Baba Yetu was perhaps a milestone, but it wasn't the reason why more and more schools now have video game composition courses. I think what happened was the size of the industry just grew really, really large over the last couple of decades and it became this undeniable cultural force that needed a lot of music.
And so, you know, as a result, a lot of these university programs started catering to that demand. Similarly, there have been a lot more university scoring courses that have popped up in the last couple of decades. I think this idea of composing for media really took off in the last 20 years, probably with the advent of sample libraries and just the accessibility of scoring nowadays. But certainly, when I was entering the industry, there were only a handful of programs, maybe 3 or 4, around the world.
On the side of, for example, popular music, it suddenly became a very desirable goal to get your band's music placed in, say, a sports game or something like that.
TechSpot
How has video game music changed to make it more attractive to artists and composers?
Christopher Tin
I think that the change happened on multiple fronts. On the side of, for example, popular music, it suddenly became a very desirable goal to get your band's music placed in, say, a sports game or something like that. People started to understand that exposure would really help break your band. And likewise, on the game side, a lot of executives at major corporations like EA, for example, started getting savvier, like integrating popular music into their titles. This sort of cross-pollination thing happened on the side of composers. I think it's always been that a lot of talent gets drawn to where they can make the biggest buck.
Historically speaking, the people who have that ability to move laterally and score a lot of different things or write for a lot of different mediums often find themselves poached by the industries that are growing fastest and offer the most commercial opportunities. Games became that. Suddenly there were a lot more games, and their budgets were really good. The technology on the back end of games enabled things like full-fidelity recording and multi-channel audio to create a more immersive experience. And the budget started swelling so that you could afford to hire the London Symphony Orchestra for a week straight at Abbey Road for your big title. Everything about the game industry grew, and as a result, the talent started pouring in.
On the classical side, which is kind of the world where I come from, too, you started to see more concerts of video game music. A lot of that was pioneered by these specialty shows like video games live, which I've been a part of in the past. But nowadays, you see more things like such and such orchestra is doing video game night or there's a special video game night at the Proms, the annual summer concert series in London.
These sorts of incremental high-profile events have started to normalize the idea of gaming music within a symphonic context and hopefully, that extends someday to the integration of gaming music. Not just as its own separate night or one night only in your season. Integrated within a classical context so that a piece of game music could be the opening piece performed and then Hilary Hahn plays a violin concerto, and then they do Beethoven's 9th or something like that. This tighter integration of video game music in actual programs alongside [traditional] classical.
TechSpot
Have you seen any recent examples of blending video game music into the traditional classical world?
Christopher Tin
Yeah, It's starting to happen. One interesting thing is that right now, I'm, for a limited time only, I am a classical radio DJ on Scala Radio in London. It's a classical radio station, and I share a residency with three other prominent classical artists. Sometimes we play video game music on the show, and it's not just me playing it. the fact that in 2022, when this radio residency started happening, this classical radio station thought let's bring in a composer who writes for video games as one of our guest DJs says a lot about how the game industry is now being courted by the classical world.
TechSpot
Looking back on all the industry successes and shifts video game music has had, what surprised you the most?
Christopher Tin
One big surprise for me was this past year, the Grammys started a new category dedicated to video game soundtracks. That was a complete shock to me. I didn't expect that. I didn't think it was ever going to happen because it had been something that people had been pushing for for a long time. And that was a real watershed moment as well. Now the recording Academy is saying, "OK, films, TV shows and everything else, you get your own category. Video games, you get your own category as well." It just goes to show the growing importance and the growing relevance of video game music in popular society.
Editor's note: Christopher Tin received a Grammy nomination within the inaugural video games category. His music for Old World was one of five nominations.
TechSpot
Is there a game or project whose soundtrack you admire that you wish you had the opportunity to take a crack at yourself?
Christopher Tin
I've often said that Civ is, in a way, my dream gig. I had a very strong background in classical and world music. Civ is the perfect palette for real life and a lot of musical ideas in that world. I don't know that there are a lot of other franchises that I think to myself, "Oh, God, I wish I was scoring that." I like scoring strategy games because, in a way, the music I get to write isn't so action-driven, allowing me to write pieces that are a little more dynamic in terms of emotional rain.
And likewise, since they're strategy games, they're not necessarily coordinated to certain actions on screen, but they're meant just sort of to be this tapestry of music that plays in the background that maybe gets you excited about playing the game, but isn't necessarily accentuating key dramatic or narrative moments. So that's a creative opportunity unlike any other in any of the scoring arts. Know if you're scoring films or TV shows, a lot of times, the music is very prescribed as to what you need to write and when you need to write it. But something like a strategy game, you create a bit of a world, a sonic musical world. It's a joy working on these titles because of the open-ended musical nature of them.
It's not like I grew up playing a lot of games. I never actually had a console growing up, so I was always just playing PC games, and it's either Civ, which honestly was probably 80% of my childhood gaming. Because, you know, you can never stop playing Civ. Or something like SimCity. So it's always been just turn-based strategy [games].
TechSpot
Baba Yetu has seen countless covers and reproductions. Do you have any favorites, or ones you think didn't quite hit the mark?
Christopher Tin
There are a lot of covers of Baba Yetu online, like a ton. I go back to a comedic cover. There are a couple of covers that I've always loved. There is a sort of jazz funk cover by a New York funk band called ConSoul that I've always loved, and that's just because I love funk music. But another one that I've always loved is Brentalfloss' comedic cover of Baba Yetu, where he changed all the lyrics and wrote some pretty hilarious stuff. That was one of the first covers to come out, that covers probably like 15 years old by now or something like that. But the lyrics, if you play Civ, the lyrics are just fantastic.
TechSpot
The one thing that's unique about video game music is that it allows you to blend what some might consider to be traditional orchestral elements and sounds with non-traditional sounds like EDM synthesizers, etc. Is that a style you've got a lot of interest in, and do you want to dig into that more?
Christopher Tin
I have a lot of interest in a lot of different styles, and while that is something that I was very excited about, you know, 5 to 10 years ago. It's something I do less and less of now. I'm always on the lookout for new territory to step into in a way. And while I love the nature of cross-genre collaborations at the moment, I'm very heavily invested in pursuing things more in the classical world, particularly choral music, opera music, and orchestral music. It won't be long before I start getting excited about collaborating with world music artists, jazz artists, musical theatre artists, pop artists, whatever. But I'm always just kind of roaming around, you know, chasing what excites me.
TechSpot
Is there anything that drives that inspiration?
Christopher Tin
I think largely this is where my interest is. In a way, if you had asked me 30 years ago when I was a teenager, what genre of music do you want to perform or write in? I would say every one of them. I was sort of omnivorous. The realities of the music business are that you cannot be a force in every genre of music. But I try to take advantage of that I can vacation in somebody else's backyard for a little while and do some fun projects.
So going back to this whole EDM thing. I've seen a lot of people who don't know this, but I have been scoring the 2K PGA Tour franchise, PGA Tour 2K21 and PGA Tour 2K23, and many of those pieces I wrote tend to be like synth poppy.
There's a little bit of like trap with orchestral elements. There's fun, cross-genre play going on. I collaborate with some great musicians who are specialists in those genres. But there's always a score out there that lets me refresh my love of cross-genre composing.
TechSpot
Making games is much more accessible to creators than ever, plus advances in AI and technology like orchestras in a box have changed the video game landscape. Where do you see video game music going from where it is today?
Christopher Tin
I'm not necessarily the best suited to talking about the technical elements of where the video game industry can go. The idea of more multi-channel audio, spatial audio and things like that. What I kind of hope to see more of is what you see happening in the film business. Where such and such major pop star is excited to record the closing credits song on such a film or even do a cameo in such films. It would be great if video games rose to the level of prestige and creative draw such that everyone across all genres thought of it as an exciting possibility, and you would see, for example, Taylor Swift performing the closing credits song for, I don't know, something red dead three or something?
And I think, though, that we're not far from that. I think there's a generation of musicians now who grew up playing games, and there will be a generation of musicians coming of age very soon where they grew up in the heyday of games, the current heyday that we're in now, and it's perceivable that in the future the opportunity to be on the soundtrack for a major franchise title is more enticing to them than being on the soundtrack of a movie or something?
TechSpot
Thinking of some of the legendary games from the last decade (Civ, Halo, Skyrim, Mario), do you feel their success is partly because of their score, or is their score successful because of the game's success?
Christopher Tin
Here's the thing. Civ is going to be a huge success, whether I'm involved or not. I wasn't involved in Civ V, and it was a huge success until VI came along. I am now successful because I wrote music for Civ, and Civ elevated my visibility way more than any other project I've worked on until that point. So is music successful because of the game? It depends on the music.
If it's good music, then yes, is the game successful because of the music? I think the importance of music is, of course, it's very important. But I think other elements of gaming are more important. You know, if you don't have good gameplay design, it's not going to be a successful title, right? I would even argue that things like narrative are more important.
A lot of game music, due to the nature of games, frankly, is sort of, I don't want to say, interchangeable, but gaming has certain dramatic needs that are shared amongst a lot of different titles. Whether it's a Call of Duty, a God of War, or whatever. There are certain types of music that all these games need. Very exciting, pulse driven that dominates the audio landscape of gaming soundtracks.
Musicians benefit from working in games more so than, you know, games benefit. Games benefit from great soundtracks, of course, but the success of games, if we're being completely honest here, is due to the contributions of a lot of different creative people, of which music is a small part.
TechSpot
There's an argument that games like Halo and Skyrim are excellent on their own, but the soundtracks behind them set them apart. They take it to that next level and take the game from being great to a legendary classic that everyone keeps replaying because, yes, the mechanics are there, but the score is so unique that it just kind of creates an environment that you literally cannot find anywhere else.
Christopher Tin
I think you're hitting on a little bit is the impressive power of what music and games can do outside of the game. Game music is one of the very few elements of the art form that can hop outside of the art form and become its own ambassador for the franchise outside of everything else.
If you grab a character from God of War and plop them on a poster, it will always look like Kratos. It's always associated with that game, whereas with game music, and I've experienced this with Baba Yetu and Songo Di Volare. There are a lot of people out there who know this music but have no idea that it's from games, and that gives games this advantage in that you hire a great composer who can write music that will take your game to non-gamers because none of the other elements of your game are likely to make that hop.
Maybe the story, like something like the Last of Us, for example, the narrative of that was so good, and now you've got a great HBO show. So story elements can be transplanted, but art, gameplay, these are all very unique, and it's sort of attached indelibly to the franchise itself.