08 elections

[NetCablesPlus]

Some interesting comments on this thread. Let's start off with the realization that ANYONE who makes it to the top national tier of politics is extremely smart, ambitious, aggressive, political, cunning, savvy, and has great people skills. No way anyone would make it that far without at least those qualities. However, there is one thing that they are all focused on: POWER. It's not money, social causes, political beliefs, etc., that cause a person to go through what s/he (and their families) has to go through to get to that level in the game. Power corrupts and absoluter power corrupts absolutely. So, the best thing is to throw the bum out after one term and get in another bum. Gives them less time to aggrandize power and get corrupted. Government is basically evil due to this obsession with power by all politicians/bureaucrats and needs to be limited as much as possible. As Reagan famously quoted one time, "The biggest lie that you will ever hear is 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" Go Libertarianism!

 

[twite]

there are plenty not listed and G. Bush cannot run for re-election.
Reply With Quote

This was already addressed, 3 times...actually reading the thread would help. Also, considering this thread was started 3 months ago,i would see why there may not be some listed.

 

[Po`Girl]

Removed by poster due to redundancy of query.

 

[twite]

Not sure what you mean..didn't see any italicization

 

[BlameCanada]

I think there could be a liberal bias here,because I`m guessing some
non-Americans have voted,and non-Americans tend to be liberal.

Without me Hillary would be down one,for instance.
And po girl is "East of NYC" That could be commie Europe !!!!

Is this a good point or wat ?

 

[twite]

But then again the United States is a land of immigrants, so what does it matter?

 

[BlameCanada]

I wish some foreigners had voted in 2000 :unch: Three would have been enough.

 

[twite]

What you mean??

 

[papercut_2008]

After skimming this thread I feel I need to put in my two cents, so here goes...
Personally, I don't feel that Bush was that bad of a president. I mean, no president is perfect, and i could criticize any president. I think he has been given a hard time by the media. Look at the economy- the DOW is about to break 13000, but you don't hear anything about it. The media complained about how bad it was, but now that it is at record highs, (unemployment is at record lows) you don't hear anything about it. The media only presents their side of the agenda, the things they want you to hear (oh my God, the economy is doing good under Bush- *gasp*). 99% of the people who tell me that they hate Bush can't back up their stance with any reason other than "I dunno, the war or somethin..." If somebody can give me an educated reason, please do, you are entitled to you position and I am interested. One last thing on Bush- everytime you hear somebody call him a fascist, ask them "what's a fascist?" (I have yet to find somebody who can give an accurate answer). People need to get an education and form their own ideas, political or otherwise, instead of letting others create them for you.

 

[twite]

Heres a small list of reasons why.


Haliburton (We went to Iraq for what? Maybe for the same reason that **** Cheny's..are vice presidents oil company did?
WMD (haven't seen any recently, have you?)
Enron
Anti-stem cell research
Anti-Abortion (both Christians views)..what ever happened between church/state?
Fired 8 US attorneys for trumped up reasons; political interference
Scooter Libby (good to know that are president "doesn't lie"..we'll just have guys lie for him.
NSA wiretapping (whata joke)
SWIFT surveillance of financial transactions
Black prisons and extraordinary rendition
Tom Delay-just another one of the bush admin scandals
Mark Foley-do i even need to say it?
Cheney and Energy Policy
Tax cuts for the wealthiest (conservatives for you)
Global warming: refusal to join Kyoto, denial of manmade origin, continued reliance on fossil and carbon based fuels, little movement on CAFE standards and conservation, political interference in scientific reports (Republicans=no global warming)
Medicare (wait..what medicare)
Medicare Part D (wait..what medicare part D?
Healthcare (in general, and the lack of.)
2000 Presidential election (just another scandal..Florida..jeb bush...recount?
2004 Presidential election (doubting this)
Alberto Gonzales (yet....another liar)
Karl Rove’s security clearance and no firing of Libby co-conspirators
The Patriot Act; the Patriot Act extension (flawed..abused)
Bush casually admits about lying about decision to fire Rumsfeld
False military reporting: Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch (just another daily bush admin lie..used to it by now)

 

[sllewe]

After skimming this thread I feel I need to put in my two cents, so here goes...
Personally, I don't feel that Bush was that bad of a president. I mean, no president is perfect, and i could criticize any president. I think he has been given a hard time by the media. Look at the economy- the DOW is about to break 13000, but you don't hear anything about it. The media complained about how bad it was, but now that it is at record highs, (unemployment is at record lows) you don't hear anything about it. The media only presents their side of the agenda, the things they want you to hear (oh my God, the economy is doing good under Bush- *gasp*). 99% of the people who tell me that they hate Bush can't back up their stance with any reason other than "I dunno, the war or somethin..." If somebody can give me an educated reason, please do, you are entitled to you position and I am interested. One last thing on Bush- everytime you hear somebody call him a fascist, ask them "what's a fascist?" (I have yet to find somebody who can give an accurate answer). People need to get an education and form their own ideas, political or otherwise, instead of letting others create them for you.

So suddenly the private sector profits reflect a good president? Man FDR must of sucked.

Our economy may be making alot of money at the moment, but that it because our economy is based on cheap production in foreign markets and then the importation on said goods. That is not healthy. How about at least semi-balanced budget? Stop the pork, and raise taxes back to what they were. Any president that cuts taxes in a time of war is a *****.

Fascism

but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism, collectivism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, and opposition to economic and political liberalism.

The current policies sound pretty fascist to me.

I am not any party, and as a registered republican I think we can do better than the current administration. (Note I said administration, not just bush.)

 

[SNGX1275]

Twite - I can't/won't debate all your points in detail but here are a few quick thoughts:

Haliburton - Looks bad, maybe nobody else can operate on that large of a scale though.

WMD - Not sure who to blame on this, but at the time other country's intelligence backed it up, don't think you can lay that one all on Bush.

Enron - Private company isn't it?

Stem Cell/Abortion - Those are not church/state they are moral decisions influenced by personal religion, again not solely Bush, representatives and senators also vote, if Bush was clearly wrong there would be enough support in the House and Senate to overrule.

Attorneys - Should have been done differently to be more politically correct, but it happens under every presidency.

NSA wiretapping - Also has been done in the past. Will happen in the future, not an excuse, but not something that only Bush has and will do.

Survellance - See above

Black Prisons - Again likely been done in the past. A lot of what is being exposed now is due to the widespread accessability of information now that has not been avaiable in any other presidency. Bush has been in office since 2000. Look at the internet now compared to 94-99, MUCH more accessable for the general population and much more widely used for spreading information.

Delay/Foley - dunno

Tax Cuts - Depends on who you listen to, studies have shown the tax cuts for the wealthiest are great for stimulating the economy, which is doing well now. Still the wealthiest are paying insane percentages of the overall taxes.

Political interference in scientific publications - this happens always. I happen to work at a state university, if our reports don't say what the people that give us grant money want it to say we lose our funding. Its frusterating not to be able to report your own conclusions of what the data means, but I've found out that is the way its done and if you argue your money vanishes. I've got specific examples but would rather not post them in public.

Medicare/Healthcare - Overly complex from what limited expierence I have with healthcare, but I do not want to see pubically supported free healthcare.

Elections - Those elections were analyzed more than any in the history of the country, the results are what they were voted. How people can be such morons to vote improperly I don't know. I do know that polls in St. Louis were kept open for extended periods of time in urban areas, which increases the democrat results, that is less fair than recounting under the watchful eye of the media.

Gonzales - Don't know much or care much about him, figured it was a 'political' move to get him his position because he's a minority.

Rove - I think these things just happen, power brings about shady deals and corruption, again I'd blame the apparent lack of it in the past on the internet.

Patriot Act - Potential for abuse under this act is extremely high, but this isn't Bush's fault entirely, once again our elected representatives have to see to it that these things pass or fail. The problem is not enough people are voicing concerns to those representatives to prevent this stuff from happening. Ordinary citizens are as much or more to blame for this than Bush.

Lying about Rumsfeld - don't know

False military reporting - of course this is going to happen, its a 'war' in war there is propaganda, always has been always will, its much less severe now than in WW1 and WW2.

 

[papercut_2008]

You beat me to it... I think you are right on in your evaluation of the above topics, especially your evaluation of stem cells, tax cuts, and wire tapping.

 

[twite]

Valid points sng..

My .2..
Wire tapping was a big part of the patriot act, which was served to help fight terrorism..But is completely abused, and used for nonsense purposes, without a warrant. Yes, it was used in the past, but with the use of a warrant. Now, with the patriot act, it is "illegally" (almost) abused.

Enron was a private company, that bush had very close relations to. Not saying there is any wrong doing (on bushes part), but it is very sketchy.

Healthcare/medicare- Should id be free? I don't know. Should it be affordable.Yes. Is it? No.

Rove - I think these things just happen, power brings about shady deals and corruption, again I'd blame the apparent lack of it in the past on the internet.

Yes..People lie. That is politics. Clinton lied...He got impeached. Bush lied..and lied to get out of his lies..so that makes it alright? Seems like it..or else half of the GOP would of been out a lonnng time ago.

Yes..with every party, Democrat, and republican..there is always lies, scandals..But i have never seen as many as in the Bush admin. It seems like every other day, there is another scandal, another lie...and yet, no-one ever does anything about it.

 

[twite]

bump.......

 

[twite]

A interesting quote i found

"Let the president answer a higher anarchy
Strap him with an Ak-47, let him go, fight his own war
Let him impress daddy that way
No more blood for oil, we got our own battles to fight on our own soil
No more psychological warfare, to trick us to thinking that we ain't loyal
If we don't serve our own country, we're patronizing a hero"

 

[dezomania90]

The reason Democrats aren't as successful as republicans is because they don't assassinate leaders, And don't lie to get into position. Also i think people have a sense of fear of the administration, and almost feel brainwashed into abiding by it. People Now days don't realize that the government is for the people, and by the people. This also goes for law enforcement. Unfortunately, the government seems to be for Republican, and by republican.

P.S.to stay on subject, DOGS FOR OBAMA FTW!!!!!!!11

 

[twite]

I think that is slowly changing. I fear the administration. I don't obey them.

Dogs for Obama..Wtf?

 

[dezomania90]

its not exactly to that point yet tho...
i think when they force you into support by fear tactics( and other) it calls for an immediate impeachment of the administration, because when you lie/twist truth/reword/use scare tactics it clouds judgment.
For a democracy to work it has to be truth based... and right now it doesnt seem like that. The current administration is slowly adding to their amount of lies and scare tactics and pretty soon it will be completely socially acceptable to blatantly lie to the masses.

Even if the truth is not pretty it should be told. Censorship ruins society.


And for the dogs for obama comment, dogs for obama is a myspace page that sells shirts for dogs that say dogs for obama.

Basically i was implying i like obama.

 

[twite]

I think it is already acceptable, if it wasn't bush and his admin would have either been impeached or assassinated by now.

 

[NetCablesPlus]

How quickly we forget...politicians and lies go back to the days of the pyramids and probably much earlier than that...more recently, what about the legendary Clinton War Room (i.e., lie machine) that was set up to spin away bimbo eruptions and spread lies and misinformation about pretty much everything else?...what about Clinton's former advisor Sandy Burglar (Berger) stuffing historical documents into his pants to cover up the truth about Clinton's anti-terrorism failures?..of course, the difference with Clinton was that he had the full backing of the liberal legacy press, so he got away with a lot more lying and spinning, but anyone who thinks that George W invented lying to the masses must have just fallen off the turnip truck yesterday...s/he certainly could not have followed American (or any other country's) politics for very long...

 

[twite]

But does that make it ok? That is my point, just b/c it happens doesn't mean that it is acceptable.

 

[SNGX1275]

Then its time for the if you don't like it don't vote for those people argument. Vote for honest politicians.

I think that it is probably impossible, the type of people that would do everything ethically are the type of people that will never get any further than local politics. There are probably many reasons for that but 2 of them are that they aren't the type of people that want to deal with all the bs that comes with higher positions and also to get to those higher positions you need money that you get from buisnesses/corporations - now they don't just hand out money they expect a favor in return, and that starts up the cycle of corruption.

 

[halo71]

Then its time for the if you don't like it don't vote for those people argument. Vote for honest politicians.

That is funny!!! I say just vote for the smartest maybe! THey are all crooks on puppet strings anyways right? Just my .02 though!

 

[IBN]

Vote Ron Paul