G
-1 Tommy forgets that the Radeon 5970 is still the fastest card available.(like Techspot which consistantly rubs the Geforce 580 in everyones face with no mention of it's superior). Also take into though the 6850 and 6870...both of those cards are well beyond their Nvidia counterparts...which are sub Geforce 460 cards.. you know that they both beatout the 460 too. How do you figure the 6970 is in 2nd place? It's just as fast and arguable faster than than it's intended counterpart the Geforce 470. The dual GPU 6990 is going to be king in Feburary or whenever it gets out and it's clearly set against the Geforce 580. So in reality, AMD is actually in 1st place as they have been for a while now.
But enough of this banter with the silly GPU wars, the people who win are the consumers. Now we have more options, the market is moving forward in which we can buy GPUs for the same price as the older generation but yet it outperforms it.
dividebyzero said:
@red1776
Kyle and the crew at [H] I think are the exception that proves the rule for most reviews.
1.They mostly test to the "ragged edge" of playability- in fact with some of their framerates that are produced in their tests I don't think would actually be representative of actual gameplay. Most gamers I suspect would quite happily forego 8xMSAA (for example), drop down to 4xMSAA and get a smoother and more responsive experience.
2. Their game selection is very narrow. Five games (cherry-)picked for their graphical intensity will always compress the results across the same-segment cards reviewed ( driver bugs excepted). For the most part nvidia's shader horsepower is being equalled by AMD's 2Gb of faster VRAM.
3.Kyle is still using Cat 10.11, so the driver isn't the differentiator here. Sites using Cat 10.12P have still reported similar figures to reviews with earlier driver releases:
So...either the GTX 580 is remarkably consistant in gameplay_AND_transparency antialiasing carried absolutely no penalty, or the performance gain from the 262.99 to 263.09 driver was remarkable, or...............
Agreed. I would tend to support the view that you bench withthe release driver (as most sites did). If you can bench with a newer release then well and good. The onus in this situation falls squarely on AMD. In recent weeks they have released a whole slew of 10.10 hotfix and 10.11 (and now 10.12) drivers- this I think has led to the confusion/consternation of readers- almost entirely from AMD-philes who seem to be looking for a "magic bullet driver"...."10.12preview was released 6 hours ago why aren't you guys releasing a full review of benchmarks using it!!!!!!"Everyone was supplied with a driver for testing the Radeon HD 6900 cards..
True enough. System build, in-game settings and FRAPS v benchmark are all going to make an apples-to-apples direct comparison between reviews a non-starter. Personally I use weighted averages from as many relevant reviews as possible, using one card as baseline and its competitors as a percentage +/- which tends to offer a more precise indicator than wildly fluctuating framerates. A simple spreadsheet -which I email to customers who indicate they want to upgrade etc. takes a lot of guesswork out of the equation:For example if we get 34fps when testing with Crysis and you only get 29fps for whatever reason that’s not such a big deal. What is important are the performance trends where we compare a range of graphics cards. So if we say the GTX 580 is much faster than the HD 6970 when playing Crysis then you should also see that, especially when playing the section of the game that we tested.
The beauty of collating the reviews as I usually do thankfully flags such anomolies. BTW Tech Report benches the game both early in the piece and when the game map fills up....BTW Toms Hardware has developed into the biggest Nvidia ***** to date. I was reading a revoiew of the 6850& 6870 release where apparently they were performing a little to well. so they added to the game benches a specific 'map' in Civ V.
How would you know this from the review unless you have an uber-keen interest in hardware and an eidetic memory (both of which relate to me), or had the forethought to check bench results from previous reviews?As for the HardOCP review I would say they just took the set of results from the previous review so transparency anti-aliasing was still being used..
Granted. Brent & Kyle also state that the HD 6970 is offering the best gameplay based on the fact that both cards use 8xMSAA. If the GTX 580 (in this instance) is actually offering 8xMSAA + TRMSAA then the statement is erroneous since 1. TRMS is essentially antialiasing samples from all polygons ( a dumbed down supersampling) not just the edges as in multisampling and 2...So the graph is just incorrectly labeled.
-emphasis added.
Ooooooooo...For yourself? or customer/review? Colour me jealous!I have a 6970 speeding to me via Newegg...
Everyone was supplied with a driver for testing the Radeon HD 6900 cards. I have no idea why you guys keep talking about drivers? What do you know that we don’t? The current drivers that you can download from the AMD website do not even support the Radeon HD 6900 cards so what are these latest drivers that we are not testing with?
As for you saying that you never get the same results as certain websites when you get the same graphics card, well where do I start? There is so much that can influence the results and for a lot of our tests for example we use FRAPs to measure the performance of certain scenes. Still having said that is not even the frame rates themselves that are of vital importance
Which Toms Hardware review are you talking about?
Isn't that the review that had the uber-clocked GTX 460 FTW as it's competition rather than a reference version?
Everyone was supplied with a driver for testing the Radeon HD 6900 cards.
anyway and again, not a shot at you Steve, just the state of benchmarking in general
Guest said:
Yeah but the point is a Guest is hiding under an anonymous ID which means they could quite easily fake a whole conversation with themselves. It goes to credibility and sincerety.
For high end builds I usually lean more towards Euro based review sites in general (not every mainstream site benches on a wide variety of games like TS. More than a few rely on a limited number of titles and bulk out the review with 0xAA/0xAF, 0xAA/16xAF benches...or to suit)- pretty much any OGL and DX9 game is going to run into software/game limitation before you see real max/ave/min fps. DX10 is not exactly an up-and-comer, so filtering for DX11 and high AA with these cards is a must. Sites like Xbit and computerbase.de usually summerize gaming by API. computerbase, hardware.fr/Be.Hardware and a few other sites also show results based on control panel configs - noteably the addition of supersampling and transparency multisampling (nv cards) in conjuction with the standard MSAA and 16 and 32x antialiasing (Xbit, PureOC et al.)- which is probably more relevant to upper tier gaming.As far as your comments about Kyle, He does test on the "ragged edge" of playability as you say, so for me they are the best benches out there. Most of the machines I build are for people who want to play 'all the way up' with 8 x AA (or higher) weather they know what they are looking at or not.
princeton said:
Guest said:
I cannot believe it. Nvidia is outperforming ATI ****.....
Oh you mean like nvidia's 8000,9000 and GTX 200 cards? It isn't exactly an anomaly.