GeoHot to challenge Sony's TRO in PS3 hacking lawsuit

[Emil]

Stewart Kellar, the lawyer representing George Hotz, also known as GeoHot, said he would challenge San Francisco District Court Judge Susan Illston's court order for his client to hand over his computers to Sony next week. The Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) was given to stop GeoHot from putting information on the Web about his PlayStation 3 hack.

"The information sought at issue is less than 100 kilobytes of data. Mr. Hotz has terabytes of storage devices," Kellar told Wired. "Impounding his computers, it's like starting a forest fire to cut down a single tree." GeoHot has already removed the code from his website and YouTube, but Kellar will petition Illston to reconsider other parts of the TRO, specifically regarding giving Sony his equipment and retrieving every instance of his code. "Mr. Hotz can't retrieve the Internet," Kellar said.

Sony has specifically requested that the 21-year-old surrender "any and all computer hardware and peripherals containing circumvention devices, technologies, programs, parts thereof, or other unlawful material, including but not limited to code and software, hard disc drives, computer software, inventory of CD-ROMS, computer diskettes, or other material containing circumvention devices, technologies, programs, parts thereof, or other unlawful material." Illston ruled that the defendant "shall retrieve" code "which he has previously delivered or communicated."

Sony's legal attacks against the hackers that released the PlayStation 3 root key and custom firmware began last month. Sony is targeting 100 members of the fail0verflow hacker collective who found security codes for the PS3, as well as GeoHot who independently found and published the PS3 root key.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/42232-geohot-to-challenge-sonys-tro-in-ps3-hacking-lawsuit.html

 

[madboyv1]

Isn't that how Alfred from Batman: The Dark Knight caught the Jewel Thief in South America? =p

The metaphor is a good one, but the problem with digital data is its portability and concealability, so I don't really think Hotz and his lawyer is gonna get too far, but IANAL so....

 

[ramonsterns]

I can't wait for Sony to think I'm hacking one of their products so they can confiscate all of my electronics!

 

[Guest]

Classic Big Company vs Individual, where's the 2nd Amendment in this? or Freedom to publish what you want. GeoHot listed that he does not condone using the serial keys for piracy or unlocking of games for use on Sony's PS3, IMO, Sony is really carving a bad name for themselves if they are going to push forward with more legal action on this issue.

All this does is make GeoHot the good guy, and Sony the horrible, freedomless bad guy...

 

[Mizzou]

Rather odd how District Court Judge Susan Illston went from ruling that her court had no jurisdiction in this case to issuing this restraining order. Also, Sony is not clear in their demands that the equipment to be handed over is specific to the PS3 Root Key hack ... instead they issue a non-specific generic list (all things unlawful) that could include personal information or items that are none of Sony's business.

 

[yRaz]

This is pointless, it's too late for sony. I hope this guy gets away with it, but I have a feeling he is going to lose.

I'm a bit paranoid about my information so all the sensitive stuff stays on a bootable linux jumpdrive. I have a few old machines around so I took the HDD out of an old athlon Xp system to use with it.

 

[TomSEA]

"or Freedom to publish what you want."

So what if I publish that you're a pedophile? You good with that? Of course not - that's called slander.

Freedom of speech is not absolute. This guy took a piece of copyrighted bit of hardware, hacked the firmware so it could be modified by anyone for the sole purpose of being able to used modified (make that pirated) software on it and released it into the Internet for every PS3 user to modify their machine should they choose. Guess what? That's a violation of copyright laws. Doesn't make any difference if it's Sony, GM or Kellogg's. They're going to have a problem with you modifying their copyrighted products and will take measures to stop it.

This lawsuit will go nowhere. It's just a weak at best effort at slowing down the legal attempts by Sony.

 

[gwailo247]

I thought San Francisco was a sanctuary city?

 

[princeton]

TomSEA said:
"or Freedom to publish what you want."

So what if I publish that you're a pedophile? You good with that? Of course not - that's called slander.

Freedom of speech is not absolute. This guy took a piece of copyrighted bit of hardware, hacked the firmware so it could be modified by anyone for the sole purpose of being able to used modified (make that pirated) software on it and released it into the Internet for every PS3 user to modify their machine should they choose. Guess what? That's a violation of copyright laws. Doesn't make any difference if it's Sony, GM or Kellogg's. They're going to have a problem with you modifying their copyrighted products and will take measures to stop it.

This lawsuit will go nowhere. It's just a weak at best effort at slowing down the legal attempts by Sony.

Publishing that someone is a pedophile isn't slander if it's correct. We already have a national child offender database for people to check if they want.

I don't disagree with anything else you said. Just throwing that out.

 

[TomSEA]

"Publishing that someone is a pedophile isn't slander if it's correct. We already have a national child offender database for people to check if they want."

That be true.

 

[Guest]

**** playstation and all the people against geohot...leave him alone...they trying to stop him and their new firmware is already hacked...dumb asses...they cant accept that there are people smarter than they are.

 

[Guest]

Why did she change from "no jurisdiction"? - Money talks...

 

[Leeky]

Why did she change from "no jurisdiction"? - Money talks...

So your suggesting the District Judge has changed her mind because she has been paid off by Sony? Because I fail to see how a multi-billion dollar corporation can financially encourage any legal system in the USA. If they're anything like UK Judges they won't need money anyway, they earn stack loads of it!

Isn't that comment an offence under U.S. Law in itself??

 

[Guest]

If I made a key that opened the front door to your house, then gave a copy of that key to everyone on your street, would you be ok wid dat?

If I saw you enter your pin code at the local ATM and posted it to all your FB friends, would you be ok wid dat?

Zup

 

[Guest]

Geohot is too smart for Sony!
This is whey there taking away all of his equipment, why not get someone as smart as geohot working for a multimillion pound business like this, technology could go beyond the human eye!

 

[Guest]

Hope he gets away with it, Sony just makes things worse with stupid "updates" anyways. I find it funny that one person can do wonders than the damn company itself.

 

[aj_the_kidd]

Guest said:
If I made a key that opened the front door to your house, then gave a copy of that key to everyone on your street, would you be ok wid dat?

If I saw you enter your pin code at the local ATM and posted it to all your FB friends, would you be ok wid dat?

Zup

IMO theres quite a big difference between a root key and a house key, just cause they both have the word key doesn't mean they are on the same level in terms of implications if used incorrectly. You can use my house key to steal everything i own but if you use the root key it gives you the ability to use the PS3 to its full extent. Again just my opinion.

 

[Guest]

The sole purpose of hacking the system, from GeoHot's perspective at least, was to allow custom code (i.e. homebrew) to run on the system. The hack provided by GeoHot (which in itself was derivative) did not allow users to boot pirated games. He did not distribute any copyrighted code nor did he enable piracy.

The main point here is this: Do you really own your Playstation 3? If Sony can use the law to force you not to modify your own hardware which you have obtained legally, then no, you do not own your Playstation 3. Sony owns your Playstation 3, and you have effectively rented it off them. Sony explicitly states that you are not allowed to do so under their terms and conditions, but they are effectively the terms under which you are allowed to access and use PSN and the terms under which you are entitled to have your console serviced under warranty.

Please don't put hackers and pirates in the same boat. It's an all too common misconception. Hackers are generally very intelligent people that are interested in the technology, the challenge behind hacking it, and allowing users the freedom to run what they like on those platforms. Also I suggest you read the DMCA, which explicitly states that jailbreaking "wireless telephone devices" is legal, which was decided because they did not want copyright law to simply protect a restrictive business model rather than actual copyrighted content. Jailbreaking an iPhone enables piracy as a side effect I believe, but that is generally not what it is used for. I believe that it is possible that this argument could be applied to any closed platforms.

If only Sony had kept the OtherOS feature and allowed the hackers to carry on hacking with the sole intention of having access to the RSX to enable hardware accelerated homebrew... And now look what's happened.

So what if I publish that you're a pedophile? You good with that? Of course not - that's called slander.

Freedom of speech is not absolute. This guy took a piece of copyrighted bit of hardware, hacked the firmware so it could be modified by anyone for the sole purpose of being able to used modified (make that pirated) software on it and released it into the Internet for every PS3 user to modify their machine should they choose. Guess what? That's a violation of copyright laws. Doesn't make any difference if it's Sony, GM or Kellogg's. They're going to have a problem with you modifying their copyrighted products and will take measures to stop it.

This lawsuit will go nowhere. It's just a weak at best effort at slowing down the legal attempts by Sony.

 

[lawfer]

Guest said:
The sole purpose of hacking the system, from GeoHot's perspective at least, was to allow custom code (i.e. homebrew) to run on the system. The hack provided by GeoHot (which in itself was derivative) did not allow users to boot pirated games. He did not distribute any copyrighted code nor did he enable piracy.

The main point here is this: Do you really own your Playstation 3? If Sony can use the law to force you not to modify your own hardware which you have obtained legally, then no, you do not own your Playstation 3. Sony owns your Playstation 3, and you have effectively rented it off them. Sony explicitly states that you are not allowed to do so under their terms and conditions, but they are effectively the terms under which you are allowed to access and use PSN and the terms under which you are entitled to have your console serviced under warranty.

Please don't put hackers and pirates in the same boat. It's an all too common misconception. Hackers are generally very intelligent people that are interested in the technology, the challenge behind hacking it, and allowing users the freedom to run what they like on those platforms. Also I suggest you read the DMCA, which explicitly states that jailbreaking "wireless telephone devices" is legal, which was decided because they did not want copyright law to simply protect a restrictive business model rather than actual copyrighted content. Jailbreaking an iPhone enables piracy as a side effect I believe, but that is generally not what it is used for. I believe that it is possible that this argument could be applied to any closed platforms.

If only Sony had kept the OtherOS feature and allowed the hackers to carry on hacking with the sole intention of having access to the RSX to enable hardware accelerated homebrew... And now look what's happened.

This. So ****ing much.

 

[Emin3nce]

But sony will see all his porn!

Sony, that picture isn't my sister i swear.

 

[ramonsterns]

Guest said:
If I made a key that opened the front door to your house, then gave a copy of that key to everyone on your street, would you be ok wid dat?

If I saw you enter your pin code at the local ATM and posted it to all your FB friends, would you be ok wid dat?

Zup

How about this.

You bought a normal house (2 bathrooms and bedrooms, a living room, a kitchen, and a backyard.), suddenly, the contractors butt itched and now prevents you access to one bathroom. GeoHot just gave you the key to reopen the bathroom and possibly repaint the walls, add another window, or something like that, essentially telling the contractor he can go fork himself

 

[Guest]

Sony knew he was hacking they did not think it.

 

[Guest]

Sony you fubar this one. Leave George and all the people who like your products alone and get on with making the ps4. Take that legal money and put it into R&D. I will continue to buy sony only if I dont get sued for going on line with a hacked PS3. The best part of the hacked PS3 is the homebrew software. potential homebrew internet browsers. If sony battles this any further it wont matter if they win or lose, they loose any way. No one will buy sony if they start prosecuting their customers. Sony please read the Art of war. You lost already.

 

[Richy2k9]

Emin3nce said:
But sony will see all his porn!

Sony, that picture isn't my sister i swear.

Big LOL ....

this & the post by TomSEA / Princeton are the best here

hello ...

SONY .. must WIN this, not because it is a big 'greedy' corporate but because anyone doing something good or bad should face the consequences ... Geohot isn't an intelligent hacker, he is one of the many intelligent programmers who preferred to hack instead of using his knowledge to do something useful for everyone, instead like a spoiled child wanting more out of something, he pushed the 'big corporate that need to make money (huh like all businesses)" to remove a feature & uses same pretext to hack the console. i'm sure the hack was already on it's way.

repeating myself here, no one really owns the technology / recipe / concept behind anything you buy. you can buy a burger from a famous fast food but you don't own the right to re-create same, the recipe is copyrighted, yet the burger will end up into you know what ...

you can own a car & modify it as long as you don't causes trouble to anyone else, it may enhance your experience as long as it is safe, but you don't own the right to re-brand & re-sell the car concept, you can re-sell the units you have, but it isn't same.

you own the dvd/cd/blu-ray movie or songs but you don't own the content, you have the right to use it with some pre-defined restrictions & a copy, for other use than personal backup / protection (where allowed), is just illegal!

everyone should see thing as is, stop hiding behind fake or hypocritical reasons, Geohot is just another programmer who does thing the wrong way, other as intelligent get paid to do good things, i do not agree with SONY wanting to take away all his material, yet if it prevents him to continue it's OK.
what he did isn't just crack open a system, but he made it available to others, some analogies made by some of you are clearly similar, like sharing your password & copying your keys.
his work resulted into plagued gameplay, cheaters & account thieves now running around, people stealing great games instead of paying for so, i've even seen some sellers having modded consoles & games pre-loaded, so it's not a matter of big downloads anymore, it is a real issue that needs to be addressed & as soon as possible. Geohot is an irresponsible kid, responsible in breaking havoc in gamer's life not saving us, for what. homebrew !!? no one can tell me where are the best homebrews that came off illegal way, there isn't .. open platform is great but leads to too much bad things, i don't need or want the 8-bit pixelated game i can play on my handheld on my 42" HD telly, it's just so ugly, don't want fake scanners, fart machines ...etc ... I want to play safe, enjoy my PC games & PS3 games without thinking someone can steal my account, reset my ranks & fiddle with my personal data.

we need an example, Geohot should pay for what he did & others, instead of causing trouble, if you can find security holes, go directly to the manufacturers & let them pay you good money to work for them or as a reward for finding flaws, for it doesn't mean you are much better than them, just working hard doing things opposing them.

sorry for another long post & repeating myself all the time, but it's a real pain to have kids messing around with stuffs, in the end we gamers pay for this, for in the end i doubt anything good would come out of this.

cheers!

 

[mosu]

In my opinion today Sony is no more a tech company .I used to like the products they made but not any more, so I don't buy Sony any more and so should you.I'll just ignore them because there's still Nintendo, Canon, Panasonic, Samsung and many many others and they are not suing us.