TechSpot

Hurricane Katrina

By Mikael
Aug 30, 2005
Topic Status:
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  1. Mark Neilan

    Mark Neilan TS Rookie Posts: 26

    Pretty much everyone in the uk hates Bush so if there was any suggestion of this the media would have said it as well especialy the daily mail.. If this salon place is the only one saying this I guess it's just anti-bush conjecture.

    Also there is no need for anyone to send money to the US its got way too much. Theres nothing other can do other than throw money at an already massive cash pile. The problem is the logistics on that scale is immense - it's bigger than my whole country.
     
  2. TS | Thomas

    TS | Thomas TS Rookie Posts: 1,327

    Enter "New Orleans budget cuts" into Google & see for yourself. There's a mass of articles citing budget cuts over the past 4 years, not just Salon. Google news has 909 entries as of now - New Orleans CityBusiness, Reuters, Yahoo News..... Many of these articles are old too, well before Katrina hit there were complaints about the budget. Again, this needs actual TV media coverage, not just papers.
    Iraq is to blame for much of this as that's where billions are tied up, billions that were cut from other projects such as SELA, US Army Corp of Engineers, etc.
    I was watching the comments by that rapper, West, live. It's a pity he chose to go the "it's because we're black" route, what he should have said was what's above - hey, the government were repeatedly warned, they repeatedly cut our budgets, now thousands are dead. Wonder what the changes are of people being fired/resigning over this. Again, there's a mass of articles covering how expert advice wasn't acted on over this. Swampland was rezoned for development projects in 2001/2002, despite the fact it was known that these helped reduce the water level. There's a whole host of issues like this which happened.

    The Independent (UK newspaper) has a detailed report;
    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article310195.ece
     
  3. Spike

    Spike TS Rookie Posts: 2,371

    Yes. I did google after I lat posted. there are countless supporting news stories and credible sources for everything in that salon article. As for the questions of resignations, well, I'm very concerned. US History shows that presidents have been impeached for far less. I rather suspect that that's not going to happen here though, leaving me wondering why. ( to put my comment in it's intended perspective, Clinton may have been many things, but he was impeached for having sex in the oval office. That may have been disrespectful, but it didn't contribute to (or, in the absolute worst case, perhaps cause) the deaths of thousands of people).

    There is no way on this earth that Bush can be directly and soley responsible for hurricane Katrina. He can take a lot of blame though for the devestation and deaths the hurricane caused - in terms of lack of preparation (and in fact cutbacks) in the face of stern warnings, the refusal of voluntary aid and international offers, and the deaths resulting from the lack of action in terms of aid, which he himself admits has been unacceptable. No doubt however, that the blame will be passed on to the people working below him, who in tern will try to pass the buck to those below them (such is the corporate model unfortunately). As far as I'm concerned, the buck stops with those who make the decisions and oversee the whole thing. In this case, that's the Commander in Cheif.
     
  4. tomrca

    tomrca TS Rookie Posts: 1,051

    Katrina the Killer

    I would like to offer my condolences to all involved in the suffering caused by this Killer storm, and hope that recovery will not be an over drawn out period of time. The richest country on this planet and finding it so difficult to cope with its own natural disasters. I suppose its like the fire brigade (department) being in need of its own services or doctor heal thyself. I wish i was able to help.
    so sorry america!!!!

    I can also understand the anger of the people, but i dont hink that even they dont know the extent of the razing katrina has done.
     
  5. Diomedes1

    Diomedes1 TS Rookie Posts: 33

    I'm with some of the poster's that americans shouldnt be annoyed that the world doesnt come to thier aid, when they are the only world hyper power.

    Secondly, i know its not representative of all americans, but i sometimes wonder how you guys are called civilized.

    New Orleans has a natural disaster and everyone subconciously decides to get their guns out and begin to shoot eachother, whats the deal? I seen a pic of someguy sitting infront of his house with sign saying 'come close and die' with a shotgun in his hand. The government doesnt send in aid, but the national guard armed to the teeth. Then you find that what seems to be sizeable parts of the community think it a good time to loot and rape the **** out of the place. Don't get me wrong, its probably a poor place with poor, desperate people, but for a civilized country, in which civlilized morals are supposed to be in every concience, it doesnt act all that civilized as soon as somthing goes wrong; it turns into the wild west. One Uk reporter commented on this, saying 'it's characterist for Americans to grab their guns and shoot people as a way of reacting to an attack of any kind on their neibourhoods.' This kind of mentality is refelected upon in the film 'Bowling for Columbine' i think. Though stories generally dont get more one sided when they're made by Michael Moor


    Also, i think the price of Pertrol should switch continents, we're not the ones with incredibly innefficient oversized cars. Also, because living standards are so high on the other side of the pond, most families have a heap load of cars, yet pay sod all for their pertrol. I mean if you guys can't be bothered letting your economy take a bit of a hit by signing up to some sort of environmental agreement(kyoto), the least you could do is perhaps charge a bit more for petrol. That would at least make some people think twice before using their car. I remember i read in a Bill Bryson book that his nextdoor neibours, who lived 50 yards down the road, drove to their house, this type of thinking doesnt seem to be all that abnormal over in America.

    In london, it costs you cash just to use the damn roads, somthing like 10 dollars every time your car goes into a certain zone in some city centres. It angers me that countries like ours are busting a gut trying to cut emitions, when the Americans have got no intention of doing so.

    Anyway, sorry for the mini rant. For all the bitching, dont get me wrong, it is a dire situation over there, and i suppose living in a place that never has really any sort of big natural disasters i wouldnt really know the effect it has on people, or the extremes it drives them to.
     
  6. AtK SpAdE

    AtK SpAdE TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,846

    As sort of a rebutal

    First off, You have to understand New Orleans.

    You have the french quarter, which is your bars and other "touristy" areas (Hotels, shops, etc.)

    But as soon as you leave that area, (except the commercial ditsrict maybe) It is very poor and very crime ridden. Not to mention ther jails in the area had to be moved to buses, and in the process had some convicts escape.

    So you give gangsters, and criminals the chance to get guns....what did you expect them to do, play poker or something? And somehow their actions represent the general public now? Dont tell me criminal in your country would not of done the same thing.

    Secondly, gas prices.

    I would like it to be known i drive a honda civic, which lacks speed :( , but is alot more effiecnt then other cars. :)

    But somehow your high gas prices somehow cancel out our rising prices? Im sorry if you pay alot, but when you see a dollar jump in 24 hours, it is going to be a bit shocking. Also, the US has a much lower gas tax, IIRC.


    And for anyone saying that the US is rich....maybe you havent factored in the US is in debt 7 trillon dollars. If you put that into perspective... everyone in america would pay $26,753 to get us out.

    Dont get me wrong im not saying that we should ask for help, though, we have to get things in order and fix our own problems.

    my 2 cents

    Sean
     
  7. SOcRatEs

    SOcRatEs TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,382

    oh Well.........a deep subject in texas

    This really sucks, and so does the media circus...

    It seems to me, now, that I've been whatchin this for a week.
    That ppl think we planned this disaster to happen..rather than for it.

    The body count is far higher in other disasters world wide.
    India, tsunami, earthquakes, stupid wars, out of control pleagues..
    So far one 747 could hold katrina's...

    We are here to help and sometimes destroy.
    But to complain about it not being fast enuff weellll
    try doing rescue while being shot at, so you can cry to the
    BIAS media it did'nt come..

    Thats ok by me...
    if I live in tornado alley in a mobile home, then leave me there
    to suffer my poor choices.

    This is a real tragic, but is it so much more than other places?
    It could've been far worse! Easily!
    What other disasters are just around the corner?

    The fact that Vensuala and Cuba have offered to help,
    and the first one I heard was Sira lanka
    I've heard nothing from france. Even china has offered and they
    just got hit by one too..THANK YOU!

    These things are going to continue to happen without any chance of controlling them....
    I guess when it's happening right in your face, it's hard to think some one has it worse then me..
    I don't have the cash to send so
    I'm vollunteering to go there and help clean up, just waiting for a reply...

    What I think isn't more important than what I do..

    (Please forgive really bad spelling)

    ยข.01 worth
     
  8. Diomedes1

    Diomedes1 TS Rookie Posts: 33

    'So you give gangsters, and criminals the chance to get guns....what did you expect them to do, play poker or something? And somehow their actions represent the general public now? Dont tell me criminal in your country would not of done the same thing.'


    Well it didnt seem like just escaped convicts and gangsters that where shooting and looting, it was alot of the average proud southern folk that brandished their guns and began to shoot anything that look remotely hostile. Also, im just using New Orleans as an example that the american mentalitiy (big generalisation here) seems to be when theirs a threat, get your gun and shoot at it.





    'But somehow your high gas prices somehow cancel out our rising prices? Im sorry if you pay alot, but when you see a dollar jump in 24 hours, it is going to be a bit shocking. Also, the US has a much lower gas tax, IIRC.'



    Not really sure what you're saying there

    i was just saying perhaps prices should be reversed due to the mainstream inefficientcy of your cars and the amount you have of 'em


    The debt thing cant really be used, because every country is technically in debt constantly, its all dynamic though, due to borrowing and spending, its just how capitalisim works - the point is that i'm sure countries would help out of good will or if they're asked, but they shouldnt need too, its not as if america is some underdeveloped southeast asain country that just got nailed by a big wave and hasnt even got supplies to sort it out.

    Sean[/QUOTE]


    p.s, tryed to use teh 'quote' feature, but i think it messed it up.
     
  9. SOcRatEs

    SOcRatEs TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,382

    When I see 7 or 8 hummerz on the freeway with only a driver.....
    I have to agree with you..

    ps edit your message with [/quote]at the end and
     
  10. AtK SpAdE

    AtK SpAdE TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,846


    I like how your dialect changes when you talk of the people in New Orleans
    But you obviously have not been to new orleans. It is a vast urban sprawl. Not many sterotpyical boonies. And they are not brandishing their weapons...rather looting them from the local wal-mart. I cant convey how bad some parts of New Orleans are. I wouldnt walk thorough on a good day, let alone without law being enforced. These are not the men sitting on a rocking chair killing anything that walks by there property (at least not in new orleans, which is where the shootings have occured. . Rather people who find killing fun, or at least terrorizing the area. As for the rest of the looters, i say, if it took 4 days to get supplies down there...let em loot at least ofr things that could be useful.

    Sorry about the confusing oil refrences, i was in a bit of a hurry, it is way confusing, actually so confusing...im not sure what my point was.

    My 2 cents. No wait... my $.10 (well if this was gas)
     
  11. zephead

    zephead TechSpot Paladin Posts: 2,483

    let's not throw slander around, Diomedes1. have you even been to america?

    these guys were hit with a lot. not just the hurricane, but they were under great economic pressure since the post WWII prosperity faded in the 1970's. now this storm comes by and robs them of thier property (and somethines thier lives) and the government fails to react appropriately.
     
     
  12. Spike

    Spike TS Rookie Posts: 2,371

    Well said zephead.

    I know theres a lot going on, and masses upon masses of trouble. There are definately issues worthy of discussion here, but given the circumstances I think theres a lot of room for a bit of tact and diplomacy on those issues. Tarring everybody with the same brush though is going a bit too far to be honest, especially on a subject that's always going to be 'so close to the mark' when any issue at all is raised.

    The politics, the events, the circumstances - all are up for discussion. I think it's probably best though to keep real people with real lives who are undergoing suffering worse than may of us can imagine out of the discussion altogether from now on, other than to say that they exist, in their tens (perhaps hundreds) of thousands, and thousands of them have died already with more of them to die yet. This is of course my view, which may not be that of everybody.

    Diomedes1, as was said to me, I respect the fact that you are comfortable with speaking your mind. I do feel though that it would probably be a good idea to be a little more diplomatic about it. Anyways, the point you've made has now been understood and aknowledged. Perhaps it might be best to agree that not everybody will agree with it and leave that particular issue there.
     
  13. SOcRatEs

    SOcRatEs TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,382

    Well....we got our reply

    I/We were volunteering to go to N.O. to help with the clean up.
    They said they couldn't afford us to come down...
    I explained that we were volunteering that we don't expect to get paid..

    When I called them, they acted as if I was making some kind of demand.
    They requested money and said stay home. I told them I didn't have
    any to send but have a strong disire to help, that we'd cover our own expenses.
    (I have two other friends that wanted to go and one has a large RV)
    I have extensive work history with remedial clean up and Hazmat.
    I've worked far more hazardous enviroments than what is there.
    I have 2 A.S. degree's and I'm a level 4 enviromental tech.....
    And still a member, here with Desert & Mountain Search and rescue....
    My friends have even better qualifications.......
    now I'm really confused :confused:

    This request was made to:
    LDEQ (Ls. Dept. of Enviromental Quality)
    EPA
    Army corp. of engineers (Civil engineering) who I've worked for before.
    Redcross
    Guess only $$$ has any value.
    E-nuff of this for me :(
     
  14. Diomedes1

    Diomedes1 TS Rookie Posts: 33

    I suppose it was a bit thoughtless to Tar everyone with the same brush. But i think its better to get a bit political rather than just have post after post saying how much of a terrible situation it is, we all aready know it is, and we all aready know everyone else knows it is. One thing i can't get my head around though, why do they build their houses from wood in hurricane country?
     
  15. SNGX1275

    SNGX1275 TS Forces Special Posts: 12,552   +301

    This thread sucks, you guys have completely turned it away from Katrina and into an Anti-US Anti-Bush thread.

    Its full of a bunch of 1 sided views with absolutely no chance at an American persepctive (Diomedes1). Take your fuel prices should be switched between the US and UK for example. Tell me how driving a 1.2L car is going to help anyone that lives on several acres of land and 'farms'.

    I'm not going to delete any posts cause normally that just pisses you guys off even more. But I am going to lock it, no since continuing your anti-us feelings in here amoungst a couple people, continue that in PMs if you must, but I don't want that crap clutting up our board and I imagine a lot of other people don't either.
     
  16. zephead

    zephead TechSpot Paladin Posts: 2,483

    US Gov't - Katrina

    i'm interested in what other TS readers think of the US government's reaction to katrina and the current situation in new orleans. i'm intereted in the topic because of the numerous questions that are raised and thier effect on america. as always, i'm open to suggestions, opinions from anyone. i'll go first:

    i think that the fact the george bush continued his vacation while the storm struck, and then failed to take action once back in washington, indicates a serious problem with the current workings of the US government. this is a failure of leadership from the top. the government is more concerned with hunting down alleged terrorists in the middle east than helping out our own people in a time of a natural disaster. i think that the government officials, on the whole (the republican party), are doing little (if anything) to help the american people in any way. the party has ruined our represantitive democracy by failing to represent our citizens in the government. in my opinion, the republican party in general is currently a disgrace to america and everything it stands for on account of thier actions.

    i'm really interested what not just americans but others from other parts of the world have to say, and this forum has a healthy blend of nationalities...
     
  17. halo71

    halo71 TS Rookie Posts: 1,289

    DELETED by Halo71
     
  18. Spike

    Spike TS Rookie Posts: 2,371

    I know that a large number of people, organisations, and even countries were poised to render assitance immediately after the hurricane hit, but weren't allowed to. To the best of my knowledge this decision lies with FEMA. I do however wonder whether FEMA being placed under the authority of the department of homeland security and being told to concentrate on all things terrorist has anything to do with it though.

    I have other views, but I've already given those in the other thread which was closed recently.
     
  19. RealBlackStuff

    RealBlackStuff TS Rookie Posts: 8,165

    Make sure this does not turn into a FLAMING contest, like the previous Katrina thread!

    Otherwise this will be closed as well!
     
  20. SNGX1275

    SNGX1275 TS Forces Special Posts: 12,552   +301

    ugh

    the other thread was closed because it just turned into a anti bush anti us thread. This thread will get closed if it does the same, there are far better places to argue politics than a computer hardware/software forum.
     
  21. zephead

    zephead TechSpot Paladin Posts: 2,483

    yeah, i was hoping it would go better than the other thread. it seems there are lots of people here from other countries, unlike the other forums i participate in, and i was interested in how this all seems from a foreign perspective.
     
  22. Julio Franco

    Julio Franco TechSpot Editor Posts: 6,540   +321

    I have to agree the thread was beginning to get out of hand. There are better places to discuss politics than TechSpot, so we hope you are ok with this. No need to open new threads about the same topic either.

    Our most sincere condolences to those still suffering from the hurricane disaster.
     
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