If you know a LOT about WPA, need some help here

I think I only want to try it this way. But yeah I have wondered why they do allow volume licenses do go with out activation? I have also tried the cracked way a while ago just for um *cough *cough test purposes. But since I have a legitimate key and a ****ty oem cd I figured why not give it a try so I can have a nice automated backup, if this works how im thinking, probley not though. So can I extract my cd to a image and add the needed answer/unettend file with all the config info then burn a new copy for myself? Will that work? If so what if I use the oem installed key, like the one Vigilante was talking about, instead of my key?

The OEM key won't wrok - just to let you know Not if your machine is non-oem.

To create an unattended install, you need to create a file in the %cddrive%/I386 directory called winnt.sif The easiest way for you to do this is to use the appropriate deployment tools (sp2 I would assume?) search the microsoft for them, , or go to this link... http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=214 ...and select the one for your languaghe. The download links all point to microsofts site.

use the file setupmgr.exe in these tools to create an unattent file, and save it as winnt.sif instead of the default unattend.txt

from there, it's just a matter of knowing the switches to use if you choose to edit the file and refine it a little, and so here's a small reference for it... http://unattended.msfn.org/unattended.xp/view/web/19/

and it seems Overclockers also have an unattended guide... http://www.overclockers.com/tips1167/

Yeah I got a oem machine to try it on. Thank you for posting back! I was just about to burn the disk when I seen you said to put the winnt.sif file in the 386 dir, and I totally forgot to do that. I'm gona try it now...thanks ill post back if it works or not

Are we positive about this? It is my understanding that only the media is linked to the key, regardless of PC.
To use an OEM key you need an OEM CD. For a retail key you need a retail CD. Volume key with volume CD. Upgrade key with upgrade CD. Otherwise, irregardless of PC, if these are matched, it should work.

What say you?

I'm not entirely sure about that Vigilante. For instance, you can use a VLK with a normal retail professional edition, or with an OEM edition - I've never tried with is the Home version (oem or otherwise), You may be correct though - I've never tried the OEM keys with a non OEM copy of XP. Better still, you can convert the cd you have to any other type if you know how to do it, so it's a bit of a null issue in that respect I guess...

No, I was saying that it won't work in the case of activation. I suspect the key would be fine for a simple install, but I doubt very much it would be possible to legitimately activate such a copy unless it were an OEM machine that came with an OEM version of XP. If it were that easy, everybody would be doing it by now

Of course, MS knew this, which is what WGA is all about - even with a VLK, XP support is restricted by WGA (that is, unless you crack the DLL, but the less said about that the better). However, even with that done, MS can re-write the DLL and render the old crack useless, and so not making it a very good option, certainly not for a professional piece of work.

This to my mind only leave the option of finding out how VLKs result in no need to activate the copy, and somehow using that knowledge to bypass completely the need to activate with OEM keys. Easier said than done I guess (else again, everybody would be doing it), but theoretically possible.

well said, vigilante,
everybody hates M$. they charge an outrageous price for os. i know, if the os was $30 or $40, there would be no piracy to worry about, and everybody would be happy. instead of M$ peeking into people's private machines to see what's there and what's not. god knows what else they extract from our machines that we don't know about.
anyway, you may already know this. but here's a very good explanation of WPA here

Is it possible to copy/backup the oem cd? Is it legal? If so how can it be done? I want to just copy the cd instead of cloning a clean pc.

you can copy the cd. but i don't know the rammification of it legally. most of the time, the content of I:386 is copied to c: drive, and windows is told that the source is in c:\I386. our machines at work (oem/corp) version works that way. so, when we have to install needed component, we don't have to have the original oem cd.
in my home machine i use oem cd with cd key and c.o.a. which i purchased from here. it didn't prompt me for activation (since it's an o.e.m.) i have verified it online with M$ usine "is your copy genuine?" at M$ site

i can copy it to as many machines as i want. but, if in any scenario, one of those machine communicates with microsoft, and asks for cd key, and another machine does the same, then one has got to be a copy and it will sound the alarm.

practically all xp cd's are the same!!!
check i:386\setupp.ini (yes, 2 p's)
looks like this:
[Pid]
ExtraData=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Pid=55274270
the difference between full retail and oem full version, is that the 270 is OEM.
there are other numbers too. 270 is retail, OEM is oem.
i can get you other numbers too. my cd on my home machine is volume cd.

here's how activation works. to read the machanism, click here
it can be cracked. as a matter of fact, someone did last year on his website, but they shut it down.

the cd key that you're typing, is embeded on the cd, but it's encrypted. think about it. why else, if you mis-type a letter, it tells you it's invalid. you can't use any key on any other cd.

some oem cd's are hardware locked to the machine, some are not. you can actually get oem cd's from retailers that has dell logo on, but work on home made machines. check this outfit here

they sell "cd only".
here's the legal notice:
CD Only - this software is identical to full retail version except no retail box or manual is provided. Usually an online manual can be accessed on the CD.

Is it legal to sell OEM / CD Only software?

This is a great question, many of the software companies would like you to believe the answer is no and often attempt to scare customers by placing text on the CD that says, for example; “For distribution with a new pc only” or something to that effect, but rest assured it is in fact legal to purchase OEM software. The truth is that the First Sale Doctrine protects our right, as well as yours to sell OEM / CD Only software.

Software companies have attempted to circumvent the first sale doctrine by creating elaborate licensing agreements, in which they claim that the software is not actually yours, but that you only licensed it. Several courts however have found it does in fact meet the criteria of a sale and therefore have upheld the first sale doctrine.

ok, firstly

This, I'm afraid to say, is wrong. The CD key is NOT encrypted and encoded into the disk. It is one of a number of "sets" of keys that are generated by Microsoft, via complex algorythms. As such, you can use any valid key on any valid disk. It is even possible to generate valid keys, but because these are not on a list of keys which MS has that are legal, they won't activate copies installed with such keys.

As far as I can tell, there are four types of key... Home keys, Professional Keys, Volume licence keys, and OEM keys for home and pro. I am certain that any key will install any type of CD, but I don't know if any key can be used on any edition of XP (home, pro, 64, or media).

As for the legality - you don't pay for the CD. Nor do you even pay for the software on it. You pay for the licence to use the software on the cd on a specified number of machines (usually 1), and so making a copy of the cd and/or its contents is perfectly legal for your own personal use.

The OEM keys are vedor specific. VLKs avoid having to activate.

you may be right on the certain key for cetrain edition. i couldn't swear that i'm right. will my vlk key work on any vlk cd? i think not. can you research? i'm not sure. did you read the wpa text i posted? you're right vlk's don't have to activate.

I think Upgrade edition keys are also different. As I've seen, you can't use somebodies XP Home Upgrade Product Key using a retail CD to install. So add upgrade keys to that list.

alidabiri - Yes your VL key should work with any VL CD of the SAME OS type, Home, Pro, Server etc...
The most common VL, though, is XP Pro, don't link I've ever seen a XP Home corp.

I know this to be true simply because here at work we have one copy of each type of Windows, which we use en masse to load everybodies PC with whatever Product Key they have. If a customer has a Dell with a sticker, we use the OEM CD. Home or Pro or upgrade, we use those CDs. And we have corp CDs as well, should somebody have a VL key. Which I KNOW, a VL key does NOT work on a regular Home or Pro CD. Ran into that even last week.

And as pointed out many times, the setupp.ini file can be changed to accept keys from OEM, Retail and Upgrade versions. VL too I believe. But I haven't tried all of them.

Now also, when you say the key is "encrypted" onto the CD. You may just be referring to "restore" CDs from people like Dell and HP, because when you use those CDs, you don't have to type a Product Key. In which case, the key IS on the disk, not encrypted, but inside a premade "answer file". And answer file can be created easy, and is a big help when loading many PCs where you don't want to answer 10 questions on each one.

I also second the fact that XP CDs can be copied no problem. It is ONLY that dumb key you are paying for, and can use on ONE PC, for the common license.

Im pretty sure you can use the VL keys on any installation of XP because people were using them to get past activation. Thats why sp1 & sp2 checks with microsoft to activate, and you recieve a list of two pirated product ids:XXXXX-640-0000356-23XXX and XXXXX-640-2001765-23XXX that are stored locally on your computer. With that said, is it possible to use a oem manufactures key or your unused oem license key on other computers? Even with an algorithm on the key you should still be able to do that right?

The reason I asked if the oem cds were copy protected some how is because everytime I try to copy my restore cd it dosen't come out right, it just hangs with a black screen and a _. The i386 and another folder are locked. But when extracted with ISOBustor, they are completly extracted. All the files are there including the extracted boot image. I used a boot image burner with the correct settings. I tried puting the catalog file with the boot image and that didn't work. And for the Virtual machine settings, is there a virtual bios that I have to go into to set it to boot from cd because won't recognise any boot cds.

And my last post might not be correct, I just seen on this site http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.php they clam microsoft checks for pirated ids not anything having to do with a file on your computer.

There are also many different files on my restore cd then a retail version of xp. So if I were to do an installation using just the i386 folder would that still work?

First off, don't insult me - it's not becoming.

Now, to answer your questions...

will my vlk key work on any vlk cd?
As far as I'm aware, yes. I've actualy tried an assortment of VLKs on a number of types of CD's. There's no such thing as a VLK CD anymore (it used to be called XP corporate). MS discontinued the corporate edition a long time ago - it's a Pro CD with a volume licence. The only thing I haven't tried them on is a home CD. Even if you can't use a home upgrade key on a retail disk, the information you gave is still incorrect. The keys are generated in sets by MS, some of which have never been used. There are still many keys that have yet to be even generated. All you have to do to generate a key for home, pro or volume licence, s to download a program written for the task some time ago. The program has a version for generating both retail; and OEM keys. Any valid key you generate will work. I suspect that, Vigilantes comments being correct, the keys are certainly coded for product type, but most definitely NOT for individual CDs.

can you research?
Yes. I can. In fact, I know that the VLKs can operate across different typs of CD, because I've tested it. I know multiple valid keys will work on the same pro (OEM, or retail) CD, because I've done it, after generating them myself.

did you read the wpa text i posted? you're right vlk's don't have to activate

first, yes I did read it. not all of it - I skimmed the jist of it Read it all before in various documents. secondly, I know I'm right about that - apart from it being common knowledge I mentioned it far earlier in the thread.

*And just before anybody declares me a person with a peg-leg, parrot and eye-patch, - most of what I'vew just said is common knowldge, and I do things such as this both to learn, and to kill time.

lol, this thread is barely getting closer to the goal I started it for

Now that we are all understanding how Keys work with disks and activation. We still must find out how to implement preactivation.

In my mind, my first thought still stands, if the preactivation check through the oembios files, simply tries to match the bios to the files on the restore CD (thus pining the CD to that particular bios), then preactivation should be possible. This makes sense because:
1) You cannot use this CD on any other PC, because of the special files locked to this one BIOS.
2) If you use another CD to load this particular PC, it will require regular activation because the files are not locked to this PC for preactivation.
These two points make it seem as though this is NOT a matter of specials keys from MS, or special BIOSes. Because either way, MS and BIOS manus have to be making deals about things. Which doesn't fit.

Is does NOT make logical sense that Microsoft makes a deal with mobo manufacturers to put certain data in each individual bios and link it to each key. Then sells those keys to the same company who is buying the mobos. That isn't right.
The only way this can work for an end user is IF the preactivation is NOT key based, or hardware based. In which case there is a special way to lock a CD to a BIOS thus facilitating the function of preactivation.

As I've said earlier, XP creates these oembios files after Windows is installed. I found a script to extract them from the system folder. After placing them back on the CD again using an ISO utility, and creating an answer file with the keycode in there, it still didn't work. And it might only be because I missed a step.

It doesn't make sense to me that preactivation is some super-secret pact between OEMs, MS, and mobo manus. Nor does it make sense that MS gives out special keys that allow for preactivation. I don't think the key has anything to do with it. I think it has everything to do with putting the right, system locked, files onto the OS CD with the right answer file, in the right formats, to allow preactivation.
I've seen many times, that multiple keys work with preactivation. This is apparent simply in the fact that, say Dell, will mass copy their hard drives, all with the same oem key, but slap another sticker on the case of a completely different key. Both keys will still preactivate.
And again, this can't be a special key from MS, because preactivation doesn't contact MS, so they can't check if a key is "special" to begin with.

Obviously I may be wrong on some points, because I've yet to find documentation on exactly how OEMs preactive. Besides the generic answer of "checking for special text in the bios" or something like that. That doesn't help. I don't even think it is specific text in the BIOS, only that what it is, matches what the CD is looking for.

Anyways, I haven't given up, there is a lot of good WPA info in this thread. Thanks everybody.

spike,
you don't have to be so testy. your reply was condescending and insulting. we're all learning here from each other. i like this thread, because i've been trying since last september to find how pre-activation, activation, and the key construction works, just like you guys.
M$ and windows is a racket. everybody wish they had a comparable competition. well, they don't. i'm hoping something good will come out of this.

same here.