TechSpot

Network issues

By BlackAzrael
Apr 11, 2010
  1. Hi, i have a few random disconnects with my network. Okay, first my network is setup as following: internet ----) modem ----) router(linksys) -----) router(d-link)

    My 2nd router is connected to a cable that's coming from the linksys router. I'm only using my d-link router as an access point because i wanted to have internet connection for both my computer and my ps3 at the same time.

    So i set up my ip configuration as follow: my 1st router = 192.168.1.1, my 2nd router = 192.168.1.2 (was .0.1 before)
    subnet mask = 255.255.255.240
    computer adresses = 192.168.1.3-14

    so yeah i wonder why it's disconnecting because it seems fine. if anyone knows what to do, please help me! And thanks in advance!
     
  2. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,311   +617

    nicely done and good posting of the config :)
    wow: even a tight subnet mask of 240!
    With that dhcp range, it would not be necessary, but it is correct.

    confirm router#1 has DHCP enabled with that range 3-14 and
    router#2 has DHCP disabled and the address shown is a static address.
    the connection from #1 to #2 should attach to a LAN slot on #2, not the WAN side.

    make sure ALL system use DHCP and none are config'd for static which would inject
    a tcp error and your symptom would ensue.
     
  3. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    well thank you, i'm on my way to being a tech lol. Well, DHCP is enabled on the first router but not on the second. And the address range is actually 2-14 but 2 is already taken by the second router.

    And yes, the first router is connected in a LAN slot on the second router. Maybe it's the router model for the second one that's not really good (WBR-2310). If youhave any other ideas or suggestions please tell me.
     
  4. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,311   +617

    that can create an IP address conflict
    move the second router out of the DHCP range, say 1.20 and make DHCP 2-19 (19 max or anything less)
     
  5. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    Hmmm i'm not sure that will work. But i will try nonetheless. I'll post back the result.

    Thank you.
     
  6. Punkid

    Punkid TS Guru Posts: 421

    by the way, make sure the config page for the second router isnt on the same network...what i mean is that for ur linksys u have 192.168.1.1 as ur router config page i dont think u can have 192.168.1.2 as the config of the 2nd router, it has to be on a different network i.e it should be 192.168.0.1 (or 192.168.2.1 or anything u want it to be )
     
  7. LNCPapa

    LNCPapa TS Special Forces Posts: 4,209   +424

    The config pages can be on 1.1 and 1.2 - they don't have to be on seperate subnets. I think what Joe is telling you to do is set your DHCP range to 3-20 so that your second router doesn't fall in that range. Also, what type/model of modem do you have? Some of those things try to do their own NATing sometimes so that info could help.

    BTW - I agree with Joe - very good explanation of your problem. Wish everyone provided as much info when asking for help.
     
  8. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,311   +617

    I'll explain;

    The DCHP range 2-N will only limit the addresses that can be handed out when a client
    with Obtain IP Automatically attempts to connect using the DHCP broadcast on port 67 or 68.

    if all N addresses are in use, then DHCP will fail.

    However, that does not inhibit any static IP address from connecting.

    So placing the second router outside the DHCP range (assuming it has a static address)
    will ensure there is never an IP conflict created.

    In the configuration being considered, the second router can have its own DHCP range
    (say N+2->M) and use the same base subnet 192.168.1.X and thus
    router #1 controls devices 2 <-N
    router #2 sets at N
    and controls devices N+2->M​
    and all devices are on the same subnet fully capable of share across the two routers
     
  9. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    Okay i just setup my network as follow now :
    1st router has DHCP enabled but not the 2nd.
    i changed the range of the dhcp to 2-14.
    i changed the address of the router (wan) to 192.168.2.1 instead of the initial 192.168.1.2

    So i'm testing of it goes but the only problem is i can't access my 2nd router anymore...
     
  10. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,311   +617

    sorry; both *must* be 192.168.1.X
     
  11. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    are you sure? because my teacher said otherwise, tough i can always ask him again cause i'm not really sure about what he explained to me.
     
  12. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,311   +617

    absolutely sure.

    option#1
    a LAN slot from router#1 is connected to a LAN slot on router#2, leaving the router#2 WAN empty.

    With this arrangement, router #2 becomes a switch, not a router and that's one way to
    get the routing to flow. Router #1 will then control all DHCP address assignments, so make the range larger. I would place router#2 above all possible DHCP addresses, say 192.168.1.128 and set DHCP to 2->20

    option#2
    If you use the router#2 WAN slot, then that router *MUST*
    1. have a static address that fits 192.168.1.x but outside the DHCP range of router#1
    2. the DHCP range for router #2 must not include its own address and be above router#1 dhcp range

    I like simple and managing TWO DHCP ranges gets less than simple, so I recommend option#1
     
  13. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    alright thanks a lot and i will post back the results :)
     
  14. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    Okay here's the config i have right now (status page of the d-link router, the second router) :

    LAN :
    IP Address : 192.168.1.2
    Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.240
    DHCP Server : Disabled

    WAN:
    Connection : fixed IP
    IP Address : 192.168.1.20
    Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.240
    Default Gateway : 192.168.1.1
    DNS : 192.168.1.1

    So tell me if it looks alright please :p
    Meanwhile, i'm testing how the connection goes, and yes i can access both of my routers.
     
  15. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,311   +617

    I would remove the 240 and use the more typical ZERO -- no need to let that get in your way.

    and 192.168.1.2 was assigned by router#1, so yes this looks good. From a system on router#2 you should be able to ping www.google.com and get timings which says you then have browser and full internet access too.
     
  16. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    Well, i know that the 240 subnet is optionnal but i learned from my teacher that it optimizes your network. Because i have like 10 machines including the consoles that use the internet. So i told myself : why not optimize since i'm at it?

    Thanks for your answers tough ;)
     
  17. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,311   +617

    the mask of 240 says that only 15 devices can pass thru --- and you may have more.
    'optimize' can easily also become a bottleneck to success.

    If your router#2 is at 1.20, then the mask will need to be 255-20 or at least 235 which is
    not easily set on our typical home-routers.

    First get it working ... then optimize after the fact.

    that level of optimization is miniscule in that you don't have so many devices so as to be
    concerned on the issue.

    It seems you might rather discuss the issues of this setup with your instructor ...
     
  18. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    Alright, well here's what i have at home that's using the internet :

    my computer
    my mom's computer
    my dad's computer
    my brother's computer
    my ps3
    my psp
    my friend's ds and wii (not always tough)

    and that's it. I know the subnet 240 is not nescessary.

    Honnestly i'm not really sure in what way it's supposed to optimize my network because i have not seen any difference with the speed and whatnot.
     
  19. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    Ok, i got back to using 255.255.255.0 as the subnet because the connection went down and i don't know why. the only thing now that i wonder is what to set in the WAN part of the d-link router, so here's my present config :

    Linksys router (1st) :
    router ip : 192.168.1.1
    subnet mask : 255.255.255.0

    D-Link router (2nd) :
    LAN :
    IP Address : 192.168.1.2
    Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.0
    DHCP Server : Disabled
    WAN:
    Connection : DHCP Client Disconnected
    IP Address : 0.0.0.0
    Subnet Mask : 0.0.0.0
    Default Gateway : 0.0.0.0
    DNS : 192.168.1.1

    So i wonder what to put in the WAN area because i know it would be better to put a static ip in that section.
     
  20. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,311   +617

    leave router#2 LAN alone; it will be handled by the router#1 dhcp assignments.

    you are also right in the router#2 WAN needs static; use this;

    • IP Address : 192.168.1.20
      Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.0
      Default Gateway : 192.168.1.1
      DNS : 192.168.1.1
    HOWEVER, again I suggest that the router#2 be at 192.168.1.20
    and router#1 DHCP range be restricted to 2-19
    to avoid all possible conflicts

    your network will the look like
    Code:
    router#1 (*.1.1)---------------------------(*1.20)router#2
        |                                       |
       devices on #1                   devices on #2
           all devices addresses will be *.[B]1.2--- *.1.19[/B]
    
    and all systems can use Print/File Sharing and also have Internet access.

    If you EVER have issues with DNS lookup, do not fuss with router#2 but investigate router#1 as that is where DNS will be controlled.

    on router#2, with dns=192.168.1.1
    devices on router#2 will make DNS requests to 192.168.1.1 which will act like this
    DNS query? not me, forward to the default gateway​
    which will be your ISP. That gateway will know where the ISP dns is located and
    forward the request there. The reply will come directly back to the client that made the request.

    If you want a robust DNS on router#2, you can add a second entry below the 192.168.1.1 like 208.67.222.222 ; this is one of the OpenDNS servers
     
  21. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    Alright i just tried what you said and the router gives me this message :
    The LAN IP Address and the WAN IP Address are in the same subnet.

    And how can the dhcp give an adress to the lan part of the router #2?
     
  22. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 9,311   +617

    sheez! #%$^ parochial firmware! There's nothing wrong with that setup but some hotshot
    programmer assumed 'no one would ever need that setup' --- wrong.

    Plan B:
    leave the WAN port on router#2 empty and everything contects to the lan side.
    disable DHCP in router#2

    router#1 will control all dhcp assignments, so give it the full 2-19 range.
     
  23. BlackAzrael

    BlackAzrael TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 36

    Yeah well thats how its setup now cuz i had no choice. So i guess it's just the router that's stupid (the d-link one that is)
     
  24. prabu

    prabu TS Rookie

    Thanks for the information!!
     
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