Nvidia to launch GF100 at PAX East 2010, GeForce GTX 480 priced at $679?

You are right this argument has gone into overtime and I might decide to register…Any who back to my point. You are skipping around dear sir to make your case. My question was I would like for you to give me an example of where nvidia released a new card under new architecture that performs better than its current lineup at that time for cheaper? Current lineup is the word. The 8800gtx ultra may have been a better performing card however it was on its way of being phased out it (jan 2008 for the ultra). A more appropriate argument would be to compare the transition from the 9800series to the G200 series and I can tell you that the 260Gtx sold for 399.99 and the 280Gtx 649.99 the 9800gtx was 349.99. Which is the better performing card? We all know that the 260gtx is a much faster card than the 9800gtx but also commanded a higher price. Another thing by your own admission you indicated that the 480gtx “Bearing in mind all the variables then I'd be surprised if a GTX480 is listed below $US600.” Really!! Isn’t it safe to say that the 470GTX and 480GTX are pretty much the same card...for the exception that certain features are cut back…(like cuda cores, possible memory speeds etc…) kinda like what ati did to differentiate the 5850 from the 5870? Also how much better performance will the 480gtx have over the 470gtx? Under normal circumstance the end user won’t see anything more that 20-22% (betting on the high side examples 5870/5850 10-15% difference 280GTX/260GTX 12-18% difference) difference between top end and 2nd to the top if that? So with that in mind, based on your theory we are going to have a 480gtx for let’s say 599.99 and a 470gtx for 299.99 that at best will realistically offer maybe 10-18% better performance for twice the cost!! Hmm if that’s the case nvidia is really shooting themselves in the foot…what would be the incentive to buy a 480gtx when two 470gtx’s in sli would stomp it...and it would do so at the same price of a single 480gtx…Like Judge Judy says “if it don’t make sense then it’s probably isnt true” your argument doesn’t make sense!

So using your argument....
A GTX470 selling at $499 makes a viable sales alternative to a HD5850 at $300 ? or a HD5870 (which is likely to have better gaming performance) at $379 ?

As I mentioned, and you seem to have ignored, the GTX480 SKU's are probably not going to hit retail in any numbers ( 5,000 cards worldwide is the rumoured, and oft quoted figure), if they can't be purchased then it doesn't matter if it's two,five or ten times more expensive than the GTX470.
What you seem to have trouble comprehending is that the GTX480 is a marketing exercise. Since it cannot be released in anything approaching retail availability then the nVidia spin will be to release a few cards at a time in order to regain the title "worlds fastest GPU"- that fact alone gets customers to buy GT220's et al, and if you don't think that effort is worth it then ask yourself why AMD has chosen the GTX4xx release time to allow vendor OC cards and will most likely bring out a refresh of the HD5870 using hoarded speed binned GPU's. You can also bet that if this refreshed (HD5890 ?) card surpasses the GTX480 in performance then the reference HD5970 will be allowed to die after one of the shortest production runs in card history, simply because AMD will not need to counter "the worlds fastest GPU" with "the world fastest graphics card".

While I will stop short of saying your argument makes no sense, it does however take a very narrow and simplistic world view.
FWIW.
Your argument regarding the 9 series to G200 pricing shows a shocking lack of knowledge. Again with the apples-to-oranges tortured analogy. The GTX260 has no analog in the 9 series, and the GTX280 (top tier) succeeds the 9800GX2 (top tier), and not the 9800GTX.
List price for the GTX 280 was $650, with the retail price of 9800GX2's commanding a $20-30 premium over that*( the 9800GX2 launch price was $500). So assuming that the new in-stock not refurbished) price for a 9800GX2 remains static for another three weeks (this example is indicative of pricing at $US672 ) then we will have an architecture that is twice removed from the current one selling for effectively the same price- the 9800GX2 cards available would most likely be more expensive as those available now are generally waterblocked and/or vender OC varieties.
If you are looking for two architectures from one manufacturer selling side-by-side, like-for-like cards then you should be the one to seek "Judge Judy's" call (whoever she is). New architectures supplant the old, thats why they make them, or do you see AMD keeping the HD4890 around to take share away from the HD5830? (for example).

Also....."Isn’t it safe to say that the 470GTX and 480GTX are pretty much the same card...for the exception that certain features are cut back…(like cuda cores, possible memory speeds etc…) kinda like what ati did to differentiate the 5850 from the 5870?"

In a word, No.
The GTX470 will likely use a 320-bit memory bus, the GTX480 will use a 384-bit, whereas the HD5850 and 5870 both share a 256-bit bus, consequently the GTX470 will have 1283Mb of GDDR5 , while the GTX480 will have 1536Mb, unlike the HD5850/5870 which are both 1Gb cards. There is also a school of thought that some GTX480/Quadro/Tesla parts will have the original (likely) specced 512 shader (cuda)/700MHz Core/1600MHz shader/1100MHz (4400MHz effective) memory, as opposed to the neutered 480/625/1250/1000 that most are expecting- these in addition to the GTX470/480. If true then these SKU's, if available, will command a massive premium over the lower rated parts as not even a refreshed overclocked HD5870 is likely to match it's performance.

* The 9800GX2 debuted only 3-4 months prior to the GTX280/260. People looking for the max-performance card bought the 9800GX2 -including my customers- and due to the price of them delayed buying a second for quad SLI until they had the funds available, by the time they were ready to buy, the GTX280/260 had been released so buyers ended up paying slightly more for an older card. Not seen as a big deal at the time because in a few notable games the 9800GX2 runs very close to the GTX280 in performance.

Anyway, I'm done here...no doubt you'll repost, especially if the MSRP is realized at $499 for the GTX470. I certainly don't think you'll be reposting if $499 is a hundred or more too high...all part of the no-risk, no-balls joy of being anonymous I guess.

"So using your argument....
A GTX470 selling at $499 makes a viable sales alternative to a HD5850 at $300 ? or a HD5870 (which is likely to have better gaming performance) at $379 ?"

Well my friend we are in the same situation now with the GTX285 having close performance in many titles as the 5850 but selling from the price of a HD5870 so I don’t see your point there.

"What you seem to have trouble comprehending is that the GTX480 is a marketing exercise. Since it cannot be released in anything approaching retail availability then the nVidia spin will be to release a few cards at a time in order to regain the title "worlds fastest GPU"- that fact alone gets customers to buy GT220's et al, and if you don't think that effort is worth it then ask yourself why AMD has chosen the GTX4xx release time to allow vendor OC cards and will most likely bring out a refresh of the HD5870 using hoarded speed binned GPU's. You can also bet that if this refreshed (HD5890 ?) card surpasses the GTX480 in performance then the reference HD5970 will be allowed to die after one of the shortest production runs in card history, simply because AMD will not need to counter "the worlds fastest GPU" with "the world fastest graphics card"

I don’t even know where to begin with this argument. I guess what you fail to realize is that ATI will still be able to hold the title of the world fastest graphics card…at this time it has been said that nvidia will not have anything to counter the 5970. Why would ati kill off its fastest graphics card spend more money on producing a overclocked version to beat Nvidia at having the fastest gpu in the world..They have that now!!! Based on this lame argument why don’t ati just go ahead and kill the 5970 now and release a faster 5870 ie…5890 to compete to take the fastest single gpu. I do believe ati is working on faster versions of their very own cards but that is a normal product refresh typically(the 4850-4870/4890)…they will always have the 5970 to trump nvidia should they come up with a faster solution.

"While I will stop short of saying your argument makes no sense, it does however take a very narrow and simplistic world view.FWIW.Your argument regarding the 9 series to G200 pricing shows a shocking lack of knowledge. Again with the apples-to-oranges tortured analogy. The GTX260 has no analog in the 9 series, and the GTX280 (top tier) succeeds the 9800GX2 (top tier), and not the 9800GTX.List price for the GTX 280 was $650, with the retail price of 9800GX2's commanding a $20-30 premium over that*( the 9800GX2 launch price was $500). So assuming that the new in-stock not refurbished) price for a 9800GX2 remains static for another three weeks (this example is indicative of pricing at $US672 ) then we will have an architecture that is twice removed from the current one selling for effectively the same price- the 9800GX2 cards available would most likely be more expensive as those available now are generally waterblocked and/or vender OC varieties.If you are looking for two architectures from one manufacturer selling side-by-side, like-for-like cards then you should be the one to seek "Judge Judy's" call (whoever she is). New architectures supplant the old, thats why they make them, or do you see AMD keeping the HD4890 around to take share away from the HD5830? (for example)."

Dear sir...whatever you are smoking u need to let it go… I don’t know what planet you are flying on if you believe that the successor to the 9800GX2 was the 280gtx…. You need to click on this link (http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1909_1.html) and read the 2nd paragraph the successor to a dual Gpu part is another dual gpu part and that would be the 295gtx…just like the successor to the 4870X2 is the 5970 not the 5870. Based on your argument before the 5970 was released then the successor to the 4870X2 was the 5870? Ha…I need not to go any further it was great chatting with you but you have made me very aware that you are either a nvidia fanboi of sorts are u have a skewed way of thinking (no offense). But you are very misinformed and you quoting item all over the place to prove a point. My argument has been and will continue to be for people to read as much information and make a decision but also follow common sense and if walks like a duck and quacks like one its not a horse!! Good day

Re:

BTW the 470 and the 480GTX are binned from the same chip...just because they have different memory widths doesn’t mean they are 2 different chips a perfect example of this would be the 8800gtx and the 8800gts 640. The 8800GTX has a memory with of 384 and the 8800gts have one of 320...they are both G80 chips...get your facts together. Here a link for reference... Let me educate you just for a moment. Memory width is based on the memory size. That’s why you cant have a gpu with memory width (or bit) of 384 with memory size of 2GB… it doesn’t fit… You should ask yourself why the 8800gtx came with 768mb of memory and the 285gtx have 1GB…look at the memory widths…285gtx is 512bits wide 8800gtx is 384. Have you asked yourself why the 9800gtx memory size is 512mb and not some odd number…look at the memory width is 256… have you asked yourself why is the 275gtx memory size 896…again look at its memory width 448. Just for your knowledge..it’s apparent that you don’t know.

You should have named yourself "MrBigTool".
Point out the passage where I said the GTX470 and 480 were different GPU's ?
You obviously don't have a clue "...and not some odd number" not even! not only NOT an odd number but I'll point out (big hint coming up) that EVERY bus width/memory for cards is a multiple of 64/128. Best you go back to wiki and not use your sole known parent's internet access entirely for getting bitchslapped in Runescape.

Your original question "I would like for you to give me an example of where nvidia release a new card under new architecture that performs better than its lineup at that time for cheaper?" ...What no follow up ? No more proviso's ? No more conditions?

Fact: The top performing card in a series is irrespective of the number of GPU's it incorporates. Prior to the GTX280/260 introduction in June 2008, the 9800GX2 was nVidia's top SKU. The GTX295 wasn't launched until Jan 2009, by which time the 9800GX2 was EOL. Easily seen (for some) since the GX2 was never seen as a candidate for the die shrink from 65nm to 55nm as was the 9800GTX/GTX+
So at the LAUNCH of the G200 the 9800GX2 was the top SKU of the G92 series.
This of course differs from the HD 5970 since the AMD card launched in the same time frame as the HD 5850 and 5870.

Re-read the sentence regarding the distinction between "worlds fastest GPU" and "worlds fastest graphics card" -you obviously think they are one and the same. They are not. And for marketing purposes there is a very clear perception of what each entails in PR value. I'm guessing that English is a second language at your trailer park.

As for the fanboi sh*t....well, a simple check of my previous posts should prove that one way or the other- have an adult read them to you. I'd have to say that you exhibit more of the braindead fanboi mentality....unless it's just you are comprehensionally challenged, since you cannot distinguish between what is written, and what you think is written.

funny how predictions are..this was last year
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10/06/nvidia-kills-gtx285-gtx275-gtx260-abandons-mid-and-high-end-market/

Afraid Nvidia is losing out big time after delaying so long. ATI is making a lot of huge gain in the market share and will do so for some time. Being an Nvidia fan, this is disappointing.

I agree with you my friend

Only thing i can say is i told you so......so glad the reviews are out. nvidia dropped the ball...and the card as i estimated was not 299.99 its 349.99 for the gtx470....wow divid...you got good knowledge but you arent well informed my friend.