TechSpot

Onboard sound disappeared, I think PNY is the problem

By Tha General
Oct 26, 2008
  1. Alright everyone read this carefully. I am back to using windows98se right now, now around march 2008 i upgraded to XP home edition, no sound issues. So i think around july i bought the PNY 8400GS 512MB PCI card. Its a very large card, not made for small towers such as mine. So anyways i had trouble putting the card in, and i kinda hard to force the card in, i might of hit something, but not really sure.

    So anyways, after putting the card in, and starting up windows i notice my onboard sound was gone. For some reason it never came back, but it kept appearing every now and then in my device manger. So i had to use sound cards in replace of my onboard sound.

    So anyways, i stop using XP home edition and went back to using win9x, everything is working just fine and i do not use the PNY 8400GS anymore. But i have resintall over and over again, and the onboard sound keeps coming and going. Its possible that i hit something, but why would it show up every now and then?

    So i read this by a user name rage who post in this forum:

    The card comes with its own onboard audio, which will automatically become the default sound driver. To change it to your motherboard's onboard sound, use these steps:

    I think that is the problem. I have notice some weird devices in my sound game controller section in safe mode:

    NOTE: I CAN ONLY SEE THE SOUND DEVICES IN SAFE MODE for some reason

    But i thought after you resinstall windows again, everything is suppose to go back? What did PNY do to my onboard sound, did it replace it, is that even possible?

    Now last night, in my bios i notice i can disable sound and enable sound, so i disable it first, then i enable it and last night my sound came back. However after shutting down your computer and turning it back on, the sound disappeared again.

    So i went into my bios and the option to enable or disable sound is gone also..

    LOL any ideas? Oh and btw i am never buying PNY products ever again. :)

    BTW i will post the pictures up to show you whats in my sound device manager soon
     
  2. turbo1

    turbo1 TS Maniac Posts: 353

    Strange that the disable/enable option have also disappeared in BIOS.

    looks to me that you have a unstable BIOS,have you tried flashing
    your BIOS?dont forget to download a Flash Utility tool from your
    motherboard's manufacturer website.
     
  3. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Maybe its some sort of conflicting going on, but i always thought after resintalling windows, wiping everything clean, everything should come back. But something that PNY card did to my onboard sound, i mean right after i put the card in, my onboard sound disappeared and gave me issues. As of right now, i have no sound , i am force to use sound cards now, which is cool. So i have to buy 2 when i get the chance.

    You said something about a flash unity, but keep in mind what type of computer i am using, i am using a Intel Pentium III, my motherboard is a INTEL 810CHIP.
    I don't believe i have a flash unity.

    Here are my sound devices or whatever in safe mode:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    3 sound devices are missing or i remove them myself.

    " Crystal WDM Codec , gameport Joystick, and mpu-401 compatible. "

    I have notice whenever the sound does come back, windows says its found new hardware, those 3 devices show up and installs the software for it and i also notice something called: pci multimedia audio device shows up also.

    I have no idea what is going on, but i am buying some win9x supported sound cards soon, so i won't have to worry anymore.
     
  4. turbo1

    turbo1 TS Maniac Posts: 353

    well,i just said that you must have a Flash Uitlity tool to make it safer for your
    motherboard.the use of a Flash utility tool is for it to install the correct/compatible
    BIOS version.otherwise,if you can manage to manually Flash the BIOS,it's still
    an option.and i know you're aware of it.


    just to add something to that,you also must update your windows to get the
    latest patch.which are very essential in terms of installing drivers and hardwares
    for being detected.



    the "mpu-401 compatible" thing is some type of a soundchip.

    whenever you boot,and windows detect the "mpu-401",will automatically
    pop the "found new hardware" message and tries to search and install
    the drivers/softwares needed for that specific hardware.and looks like you
    missed alot of the drivers (as what i can see in the screenshot you've posted).


    That's the best fix that i can see,i hope you wont have difficulties in finding
    add-on sound card with your OS version.
     
  5. nickc

    nickc TechSpot Paladin Posts: 923   +11

    turbo1, when those computers were new, u flashed the bios with a floppy disk, and u had to make sure u were flashing the right one. there were no Flash Utility tool known. in DOS it would ask u more than one if u wanted to do it.
     
  6. turbo1

    turbo1 TS Maniac Posts: 353

    yes,that's why i stated "manually".and still an option.


    yes,if you're referring to Tha General's mainboard.

    i'm just thinking "if" there might be available one for it,nowadays.

    some motherboard have the flash utility tool,depends on the model.
    like this one:

    http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Pr...ategoryID=1&DetailName=Bios&MenuID=44&LanID=0


    when dowloading the BIOS,the utility tool is included in the package.

    Special Note *Please use the utility included in the package to flash the BIOS
     
  7. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Alright guys, i was online for about an hour or so, played a game for about 30mins, so i restarted my computer like 5 seconds ago, and when restarting, it says it found new hardware, installing software and my sound is back. Take a look at this, these are the 3 devices that installs when the sound is back:
    [​IMG]

    See the 3 sound files.

    My question, wtf is going on, because if i hit something with that pny card, and my onboard sound is damage, why does it come back and ever now and then?
     
  8. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    EDIT: everything is working fine, had to reinstall dx9 again.
     
  9. turbo1

    turbo1 TS Maniac Posts: 353

    nicely done! and thanks for updating. :grinthumb
     
  10. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    LOL when i shut down my computer, woke up today, sound is gone, devices disappered in device manager, onboard sound option gone also again in bios hahaahahaa.

    I am buying 2 sound cards with win9x support next week, so i won't have this issue anymore.
     
  11. turbo1

    turbo1 TS Maniac Posts: 353

    yeah..that should handle the issue....:haha:
     
  12. CCT

    CCT TS Evangelist Posts: 2,653   +6

    Have you replaced the Cmos battery?
     
  13. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    yes, if you are talking about the only silver battery on my motherboard, yea i did change it. The one that has been in there was working since 2000, but i decided to replace it with a brand new one. But i don't see how that has anything to do with the sound.
     
  14. CCT

    CCT TS Evangelist Posts: 2,653   +6

    It goes like this!

    Things don't just appear and disappear in computers unless one of either two things is happening.

    You have interferance due to bad drivers/virus/malware OR your Bios is forgetting things.

    You don't see the connection? OK! Wait for an answer you like.

    :)
     
  15. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Well should i put the old battery back? or take out the new one, and wait a few mins and put the battery back in?
    There are no virus on my computer, bad drivers? i don't believe so, because even when i deleted or format everything on my computer, then reinstall win9x again, the sound still doesn't appear and then out of nowhere it comes back, but when i shut down my computer it goes away again.

    All this started when i put in that crap *** PNY 8400GS card. I could be wrong, but i remember after installing it, it install some extra stuff on my computer, i am not 100% sure, but i believe it did. :(
     
  16. CCT

    CCT TS Evangelist Posts: 2,653   +6

    I will anecdotally answer this: my wife bought 2 computers in her life - BOTH had bad Cmos batteries after about 6 months - both were fine after a new one was installed.

    Stores don't, afaik, 'chuck out' batteries that have been there until they die - they sell them to you.

    So, you may have bought a dead or dying battery.

    It was only a suggestion given the symptoms - for $5 you can try it - or take it to a shop for $75.

    It is a suggested option is all.

    Ya know?

    :)
     
  17. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 6,979   +362

    When you forced the graphics card in (in your first post) did you hear any cracking from the motherboard? I suppose it's possible you damaged something like an audio circuit so now there is intermittent contact. Is there any pattern that coincides with temperature?
     
  18. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +183

    LOL
    i had started a detailed post for you this morning, saw you say you fixed your problem.. so deleted it and here typing it out again!

    I'm at some disadvantage as i'm not certain what commands/tools work for win9x (vs what i know works in XP) but
    1. fyi... When you boot in safe mode you're seeing all the installed drivers vs. when you boot in normal mode the default is to only display drivers for connected devices. (the device manager display be easily changed for XP)
    2. As already pointed out the device connection is appearing/disappearing (which also is why the drivers appear/disapper in device manager in normal boot)
    3. Intel 810 is a chipset that sits on the motherboard. It is not a motherboard. You need to identify your motherboard. You can try something like Everest Home (tho don't know if it works for your OS, you can check). You;d want to report Computer, Motherboard and Sound
    4. As for your BIOS issue, hard to say much without motherboard info. Tho sound options can often be found in sections with names like "Advanced Configuration options" or "Advanced PCI Configuration" or similar
    5. Seeing your drivers/device id data may shed some light. install/run Unknown Device tool.. Might take a short while to detect everything when first started.
    ==> Then click List->Show make sure ALL is checked
    ==> Click List->Save to file. Then attach the file to your TechSpot post

    /************ EDIT ***************/
    For your motherboard, might you mean Intel CA810? Tho advise you be certain as to mother board mfr and model as i find many mfr/models of motherboards with the 810 chipset.
     
  19. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106


    Well the sound devices does only show up in safe mode, but 3 of the sound devices does not. You know the ones that i mention before: ( " Crystal WDM Codec , gameport Joystick, and mpu-401 compatible. " )

    Crystal WDM Codec seems to be missing most of the time. I had this issue when i was using XP too. But the intergrated sound devices was completely different in name under XP, something about Intel 82810AAX AC97 something.

    About my motherboard informaton:

    Motherboard Properties:
    Motherboard ID 51-2300-000000-00101111-030199-$WL810_
    Motherboard Name Intel Willow Springs 2 WL810E

    Front Side Bus Properties:
    Bus Type Intel GTL+
    Bus Width 64-bit
    Real Clock 100 MHz
    Effective Clock 100 MHz
    Bandwidth 800 MB/s

    Chipset Bus Properties:
    Bus Type Intel Hub Interface
    Bus Width 8-bit

    Motherboard Physical Info:
    CPU Sockets/Slots 1
    Expansion Slots 4 PCI
    RAM Slots 2 DIMM
    Integrated Devices Audio, Video
    Form Factor Micro ATX
    Motherboard Size 220 mm x 240 mm
    Motherboard Chipset i810E

    I just think something is going on with my motherboard as for the sound is concern. When i use sound cards, which i plan to do so, the sound intergrated does come back and it seems to always stay longer, but i have to disable it, because it conflicts with the sound card.

    Nevertheless, as of right now i have no sound, and in bios the option to enable or disable sound is gone. That PNY card did something, either by installing something on my computer that can not be fix, or by me kinda forcing it in.

    mailpup I heard cracking sounds in my headphones after having the card in. But i also hear that sound times when i was using my sound blaster card. But the sound card always worked just fine.
     
  20. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Computer Info
    Chipset: Intel i81
    Computer Name: Computer
    OS: Microsoft Windows 98 4.10.2222 (OEM)
    Product Key...

    Device Tree
    Other devices
    Unknown device
    Unable to Detect, Hardware ID: PGS004F
    Unknown device
    Unable to Detect, Hardware ID: DEFAULT_MONITOR
     
  21. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +183

    just took a quick glance at your post... like is said, i want to see all the devices in that report so if you can save to a file then attach it.

    your snips of the data in your posts omit several different types of data i'm looking for, one example: more specifics about your BIOS. Can you re-run the reports as requested and attach the data as requested?
     
  22. Poppa Bear

    Poppa Bear TS Enthusiast Posts: 237   +7

    Hardware

    I'm not a PC expert... far short of it. However, I have designed circuit lay-outs and manually constructed electronic PCBs, (printed circuit boards), from these lay-outs, similar in nature to mother boards. As you're probably aware, using excessive or even medium strength force to install a component onto a mother board is an absolute no-no!

    Because most components work on very small currents and voltages, static electricity is always a hazard. I presume you earth yourself before adding/removing components from the mobo.

    Sounds to me like you may have cracked a solder joint on one of the electronic components. This can have the effect of causing the device to work intermittently.

    Another possibility is that with time electronic components can degrade, and may work when a PC is first started up and still cold, but as they warm up, for a number of reasons, (eg change of internal resistance), will malfunction intermittently or totally shut down. However, since the problem started when you forced the graphics card into the mobo, it's improbable this is the answer.

    If I had to bet on it, I'd put my money on physical damage to the mobo.
     
  23. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Computer Info
    Chipset: Intel i81
    Computer Name: Computer
    OS: Microsoft Windows 98 4.10.2222 (OEM)
    Product Key...

    Device Tree
    CDROM
    ATAPI DVD A DH-3H20A
    AXV CD/DVD-ROM
    HL-DT-ST RW/DVD GCC-4521B
    Disk drives
    GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE00
    WD 5000AAV External
    WDC WD10 2AA
    Display adapters
    Intel(R) 810 Chipset Graphics Driver (DC100)
    Gateway 2000
    Intel Corporation 82810-DC100 810 Chipset Graphics Controller
    NVIDIA GeForce 6200
    Nvidia Corp GeForce 6200
    Hard disk controllers
    Intel 82801AA Ultra ATA Controller
    Intel Corporation 82801AA 8xx Chipset IDE Controller
    Primary Ultra ATA Controller
    Secondary Ultra ATA Controller
    Keyboard
    Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
    Monitors
    Default Monitor
    Princeton Graphic Systems EO50
    Princeton Graphic Systems EO50
    Mouse
    Microsoft PS/2 Port Mouse
    Network adapters
    ADMtek ADM8513 USB To Fast Ethernet Adapter
    ADMtek
    Dial-Up Adapter
    Dial-Up Adapter #2 (VPN Support)
    Microsoft Virtual Private Networking Adapter
    Network Client
    Client for Microsoft Networks
    Client for Microsoft Networks
    Client for Microsoft Networks
    Network Protocol
    NDISWAN
    TCP/IP
    TCP/IP
    TCP/IP
    Other devices
    Unknown device
    Unable to Detect, Hardware ID: PGS004F
    Unknown device
    Unable to Detect, Hardware ID: DEFAULT_MONITOR
    Ports (COM & LPT)
    Communications Port (COM1)
    ECP Printer Port (LPT1)
    Printer
    HP LaserJet 4
    SCSI controllers
    AXSAKI SCSI Controller
    Sound, video and game controllers
    BDA IPSink
    BDA MPE Filter
    BDA Slip De-Framer
    Closed Caption Decoder
    Gameport Joystick
    Logitech Dual Action (HID)
    Logitech Dual Action (HID)
    Logitech Dual Action (USB)
    Logitech Dual Action (HID)
    Logitech Precision Gamepad (HID)
    Logitech Precision Gamepad (HID)
    Logitech Precision Gamepad (USB)
    Logitech Precision Gamepad (HID)
    Microsoft DirectMusic SW Synth (WDM)
    Microsoft Kernel Audio Mixer
    Microsoft Kernel GS Wavetable Synthesizer
    Microsoft Kernel System Renderer
    Microsoft Streaming Clock Proxy
    Microsoft Streaming Service Proxy
    Microsoft Streaming Tee/Sink-to-Sink Converter
    Microsoft Streaming Tee/Sink-to-Sink Converter
    MPU-401 Compatible
    NABTS/FEC VBI Codec
    World Standard Teletext Codec

    Storage device
    USB Disk
    System devices
    ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
    ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
    ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
    ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
    ACPI System Button
    Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) BIOS
    Composite Power Source
    Direct memory access controller
    Intel 82801AA LPC Interface Controller
    Intel Corporation 82801AA 8xx Chipset LPC Interface Bridge
    Intel 82801AA PCI Bridge
    Intel Corporation 82801AA 8xx Chipset Hub to PCI Bridge
    Intel 82801AA SMBus Controller
    Intel Corporation 82801AA 8xx Chipset SMBus Controller
    Intel 82810 DC-100 System and Graphics Controller
    Intel Corporation 82810-DC100 810 Chipset Memory Controller Hub
    Intel(r) 82802 Firmware Hub Device (Intel(r) Security Driver)
    IO read data port for ISA Plug and Play enumerator
    Motherboard resources
    Numeric data processor
    PCI bus
    Plug and Play BIOS Extension
    Plug and Play Software Device Enumerator
    Processor support
    Programmable interrupt controller
    SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus
    System board
    System board extension for ACPI BIOS
    System board extension for ACPI BIOS
    System CMOS/real time clock
    System speaker
    System timer
    TapeDetection
    TapeDetection
    Universal Serial Bus controllers
    Generic USB Hub
    Alcor Micro USB V1.1 4-Port Hub
    Intel 82801AA USB Universal Host Controller
    Intel Corporation 82801AA 8xx Chipset USB Controllers
    USB 2.0 Root Hub
    USB Mass Storage Device
    Western Digital Technologies
    USB Root Hub
    USB Root Hub
    USB Root Hub
    VIA PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller
    VIA Technologies Inc VT6202 USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
    VIA Technologies Inc VT6202/12 USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
    VIA PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
    VIA Technologies Inc
    VIA Technologies Inc VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (All VIA Chipsets)
    VIA PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
    VIA Technologies Inc
    VIA Technologies Inc VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (All VIA Chipsets)


    The ones i have in bold are the sound devices, which only appears in safe mode. Also, the Crystal Sound device is not listed.


    Well it wasn't the sound card that i force in, it was the PNY 8400GS 512MB PCI card that i kinda force in, and yea i guess a portion of the motherboard was hit or something and is causing the problem.
     
  24. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 6,979   +362

    The cracking I was talking about was a physical cracking of the motherboard, not a crackling from a speaker or headphone. That's two different things. Now I'm not talking about a massive crack that you can drive a truck through but enough of a bend and cracking of the motherboard that may have affected an onboard sound circuit. The affected circuit doesn't have to right next to the graphics card that you forced in.

    The key word is "forced." Anytime you force something there is a risk of damage. All I'm saying is maybe the sound problems you are having is due to damage caused by forcing the graphics card into its slot. If so, there is no easy way of fixing it. I only bring this up as just a possibility.
     
  25. Tha General

    Tha General TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 1,106

    Oh sorry bout that. I don't remember hearing a cracking noise. The card is very big, but i was so hype about having it at the time, lol i kinda force the card in. Now i know not to buy those cards anymore. So i guess its damage or something.
     
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