Researchers warn that Windows 11 restrictions could send 240 million computers to landfills

[Vanderlinde]

MS releasing a new OS that requires newer, faster hardware is one hands with larger suppliers like HP, Dell and such.

 

[trparky]

Blame everyone else but Microsoft. No good drivers from nVidia or AMD on Linux. Dolby Access or DTS Sound Unbound or Creative cards don't work on Linux. Linux has no Spatial Audio system like Windows does. Most games don't run natively on Linux. Most streaming sites think Linux users are pirates. Hardware utility programs don't support Linux. Even as big as Apple is, Mac OS is still esoteric.

I would gladly dump Windows, but I'd lose too much functionality or performance.

Exactly. I too would lose too much functionality if I switched to Linux. If I had to switch to something else, it would have to be a Mac. Period. I have no other choice if I want something else that's actually supported by the rest of the industry and not just seen as something that a bunch of hobbyists use.

 

[Guillermo Belli]

This "research" seems like a fearmongering tactic. Most computers will install Win11 with a few workarounds, although they'll run slower than Win10.

Then there's the LTSC/LTSB that'll continue to have security patches. It's cheap and easy to find a LTSC/LTSB license and IMHO it's the best version of Win10 that because it doesn't have most crapware out of the box.

And for the basic user there's the Linux alternative that'll run decently on old hardware.

 

[opckieran]

No matter what side you are on e-waste is a huge issue for everyone. The hardware should be able to run as long as possible until it either dies or just can't run modern software. These arbitrary OS checks to be able to run the latest doesn't do anybody any good (except MS, etc.). Most companies and consumers would prefer to run their hardware as long as possible and not be restricted by planned obsolescence in the name of security, which can be enhanced on every OS no matter how old. It's all about the money.

That’s why I vote with my wallet and stay away from restricted devices as much as possible.

Blame everyone else but Microsoft. No good drivers from nVidia or AMD on Linux. Dolby Access or DTS Sound Unbound or Creative cards don't work on Linux. Linux has no Spatial Audio system like Windows does. Most games don't run natively on Linux. Most streaming sites think Linux users are pirates. Hardware utility programs don't support Linux. Even as big as Apple is, Mac OS is still esoteric.

I would gladly dump Windows, but I'd lose too much functionality or performance.

Exactly. I too would lose too much functionality if I switched to Linux. If I had to switch to something else, it would have to be a Mac. Period. I have no other choice if I want something else that's actually supported by the rest of the industry and not just seen as something that a bunch of hobbyists use.

And what percentage of the general public actually USES or is even AWARE of these niche softwares and obscure functionalities you two use? Get real, you’re looking at single digit percentages of users at best spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on a tricked out audio setup.

As for gaming on Linux, Wine and Proton continue to make leaps and bounds in their abilities. Unless you absolutely have to play early access and/or launch-day AAA titles, which are buggy as hell on Windows anyways, you’ll be fine on Linux.

 

[trparky]

And what percentage of the general public actually USES or is even AWARE of these niche softwares and obscure functionalities you two use? Get real, you’re looking at single digit percentages of users at best spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on a tricked out audio setup.

If someone wants to oh, I don't know... watch Netflix, Amazon Prime Streaming, Hulu, Max, Disney Plus, etc. they might very well run into problems. Like @umeng2002 said in a prior post, most streaming companies treat Linux users as pirates and so make it as difficult as possible to use streaming services to legally watch movies and television shows. Something about DRM which most Linux users are vehemently against yet the rest of the world demands that it's used.

 

[trparky]

And as for proof of what I said about Linux users getting the shaft from streaming services, see Louis Rossman's video on the subject.

He's quoted as saying that Netflix might advertise 4K but if you use anything but a sanctioned platform, you get sh*tty 720p.

So, with that being said, I have no choice but to use Windows or go to the Mac. Linux is a non-starter for me.

 

[yRaz]

And as for proof of what I said about Linux users getting the shaft from streaming services, see Louis Rossman's video on the subject.

He's quoted as saying that Netflix might advertise 4K but if you use anything but a sanctioned platform, you get sh*tty 720p.

So, with that being said, I have no choice but to use Windows or go to the Mac. Linux is a non-starter for me.

You didn't watch his video, he actually talks about how he needs to use an APP and that browser based video lacks HDR, 4k and, even when streamed at 720, the bit rate is lower than when using the dedicated app. so these streaming services, in general, don't work properly in any PC. Their apps only work properly on smart TVs and consoles.

I've also found that audiophiles are the most toxic tech community, more so than the Linux elitists.

 

[trparky]

You didn't watch his video, he actually talks about how he needs to use an APP and that browser based video lacks HDR, 4k and, even when streamed at 720, the bit rate is lower than when using the dedicated app. so these streaming services, in general, don't work properly in any PC. Their apps only work properly on smart TVs and consoles.

I've also found that audiophiles are the most toxic tech community, more so than the Linux elitists.

Yes, I did watch the video. NetFlix has an app for Windows 10/11 users where you will get full high definition video and not just sh*tty 720p video. The same goes for Amazon Prime Video, they too provide an app that you can get from the Windows Store just like NetFlix.

The only ones that don't are Max, Disney, and Hulu. They used to but they dropped support for them and replaced them with those stupid "browser wrapped apps" or whatever they call them these days.

 

[3volv3d]

What are landfills for ? Cosmetics?

Weird logic. We know how wasteful we are, we know we need to stop the throw away society, do better. But instead we continue down the same path of obsoleting crap for a mass pay day.
Money speaks volume. Will the company find a way to help recycle parts, and waste. Because they should be obligated to like that parts manufacturers. Its all their field and problem.
We can help with less people.
It just doesn't feel like this is smart. Its just business. And businesses mostly wreck the planet. I'd rather the people and jobs didn't exist.

 

[randomdude925]

Name ONE bleeding-edge OS that runs great on decade-old hardware. Just one. Hint: Linux and macOS are not among them.

The IQ is not high today. You know it was a big deal a few months ago when Linux dropped the i486, which is WAY older than a decade. Ubuntu runs fine on pretty much anything a decade old or newer, and anything with xfce is always going to run. Bad take.

What makes you feel entitled to the latest OS on ancient hardware? I really don't understand. Can you install the latest Android on 10 years old phones? Or the latest iOS, for that matter? Or the latest anything, on anything, really?

Yeah, sure... but phones are different. Phones are a lot more locked down unfortunately, but we expect different things from a desktop. I expect an unlocked bootloader on a desktop, but you have to pray for that on a phone. But you know what the funny thing is? If your Galaxy S2 had an unlocked bootloader, there is a lineageOS rom that can get Android 13 running on your phone. So why am I even bringing this up? If theoretically the s2 can run Android 13, why can't a phone from 7 years ago or so do it? It's artificial obsolescence, and it is annoying. So, when artificial obsolescence is implemented into Windows, a much more open platform, I won't tolerate it. If my PC can run it, but the processor is a little too old for Microsoft to like me, I don't care. There is no actual issue with compatability, it's just to make me buy new hardware. Which is why they are doing this- Laptop sales being up means more oem windows license sales.

The funny thing is that Microsoft says they care about the environment. So, how about those piles of laptops? It's just dumb that they are doing this.

 

[Nobina]

If a PC can run Windows 10 it should be able to run Windows 11. Microsoft doesn't think that, so they artificially made a bunch of PCs appear incapable when there's plenty of life left in them. A silver lining is that the community always finds a way to avoid these restrictions.

People underestimate how well an old PC with a sufficient amount of RAM and an SSD can run, provided you're not doing anything intensive, which a lot of people don't do. That is because they are brainwashed by marketing and elitism, which is infinite in the PC industry.

 

[yRaz]

Yes, I did watch the video. NetFlix has an app for Windows 10/11 users where you will get full high definition video and not just sh*tty 720p video. The same goes for Amazon Prime Video, they too provide an app that you can get from the Windows Store just like NetFlix.

The only ones that don't are Max, Disney, and Hulu. They used to but they dropped support for them and replaced them with those stupid "browser wrapped apps" or whatever they call them these days.

This is such a toxic mindset. Too many people expect to be catered to and are willing to give up too much for it. You know the netflix problem you're complaining about is a relatively new issue and an artificially created one. But the bigger issue is that the apps have syste, level access and netflix sells your data to make extra money. Frankly, I think paying a company to spy on me is just wrong but hardly anything the produce is worth watching anyway.

If a PC can run Windows 10 it should be able to run Windows 11. Microsoft doesn't think that, so they artificially made a bunch of PCs appear incapable when there's plenty of life left in them. A silver lining is that the community always finds a way to avoid these restrictions.

People underestimate how well an old PC with a sufficient amount of RAM and an SSD can run, provided you're not doing anything intensive, which a lot of people don't do. That is because they are brainwashed by marketing and elitism, which is infinite in the PC industry.

So M$ doesn't actually make lots of money by selling licenses. Most of it comes from selling services like Office to companies but they make those sales by bundling it in with Windows. M$ needs to keep the OEMs happy so this planned obsolescence is just them helping Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc sell more computers to large companies

 

[opckieran]

If someone wants to oh, I don't know... watch Netflix, Amazon Prime Streaming, Hulu, Max, Disney Plus, etc. they might very well run into problems. Like @umeng2002 said in a prior post, most streaming companies treat Linux users as pirates and so make it as difficult as possible to use streaming services to legally watch movies and television shows. Something about DRM which most Linux users are vehemently against yet the rest of the world demands that it's used.

I’ve had absolutely no issues streaming on Linux. Yes, DRM is disabled in Firefox by default but enabling it is as trivial as toggling a setting.

 

[axiomatic13]

I am all for alternative OS' like Linux etc. But some of the old PC's out there are too old. Let's switch things up here? Would you keep an ancient refrigerator that draws a stupid amount of electricity, or would you rather save money on your power bill and get a modern refrigerator that uses less power? I'm just trying to point out that there is some benefit to getting some of these MUCH older PC's upgraded.

 

[yRaz]

I am all for alternative OS' like Linux etc. But some of the old PC's out there are too old. Let's switch things up here? Would you keep an ancient refrigerator that draws a stupid amount of electricity, or would you rather save money on your power bill and get a modern refrigerator that uses less power? I'm just trying to point out that there is some benefit to getting some of these MUCH older PC's upgraded.

I understand what you're trying to say, but many people forget that a large powersupply for a gaming PC was around 500 watts. I had a 754 semprpn 2800+ with 512MB of RAM and an MX5200 and that thing, probably to this day, would allow me to argue with people on techspot just fine. It would also probably watch 1080p youtube videos just fine. I think it had a 230watt powersupply

People don't seem to understand that these basic functions don't require tons of resources. There are tons of background applications or you have things like chrome that will never be optimized because they're also spying on you.

Noone thinks about this anymore because it's "just the way things are" for what feels like the last 15 years. But up until the mid 2000s, every generation brought a revolutionary level of performance. I stopped feeling the need to upgrade every year around 2010.

If manufacturers would actually allow us to use our phones how we pleased I could do almost everything I needed to from my phone. I would love to be able to just dock my phone at a monitor and keyboard and access all my programs and files. So the power consumption argument is kind of silly. Sure, it's got some truth to it, but the new PCs they are selling you are going to be using the same amount of power as the ones they're replacing because of all the bloatware they can install with windows to collect data and make more money.

Frankly, I think this is because MS currently is trying to ad "AI hardware" to assist with planned windows 11 features.

 

[RudyBob]

Weird logic. We know how wasteful we are, we know we need to stop the throw away society, do better. But instead we continue down the same path of obsoleting crap for a mass pay day.
Money speaks volume. Will the company find a way to help recycle parts, and waste. Because they should be obligated to like that parts manufacturers. Its all their field and problem.
We can help with less people.
It just doesn't feel like this is smart. Its just business. And businesses mostly wreck the planet. I'd rather the people and jobs didn't exist.

We don't crap and pee in the streets no more. When people start getting sick then things will change just like it did then. But it will have to be the city folk that get sick. The country folk don't count much

 

[yRaz]

We don't crap and pee in the streets no more.

Speak for yourself. I personally prefer to use the bike lanes but the streets are fine. Not my first choice, but when you gotta go!

 

[RudyBob]

Speak for yourself. I personally prefer to use the bike lanes but the streets are fine. Not my first choice, but when you gotta go!

The bike lanes...I'm with ya there

 

[ChipBoundary]

This article is complete nonsense. Windows 11 doesn't have any hardware requirements. You can bypass them as part of the install. They are merely recommendations.

That said, there should be hard requirements. Old hardware has baked-in security vulnerabilities that can never be patched. 5 years is the max a device should be in use. Anybody that says otherwise clearly does not understand computers. Also, computers are entirely recyclable, so no...they won't end up in landfills.

 

[wiyosaya]

Microsoft has been a problem since day 1. They are like pushers getting people hooked on drugs. If not, why did they literally give away Office to many companies that became Microsoft "Partners" through MSDN? If Microsoft thinks the possibility of 240 Million computers being sent to landfill is no problem, they ought to consider just how many of those 240 million computers will not be recycled.

 

[Raymundo86]

I'll keep installing it on unsupported hardware.

 

[captaincranky]

Then go further, and name just ONE OS that provides FREE updates for more than 10 years. Oh, you can't name one. Alright then. Then maybe keep your nonsense to yourself. Either enjoy your old OS on your old HW, or go whine somewhere else.

Given the general mood, tone, and demeanor of this post, it would appear that you imagine yourself a member of staff in charge of membership. I seriously doubt that is the case.

In other news, I welcome EOL of Windows 10. After all, there have have been myriad threads and perpetual complaints regarding M$ forced updates, not to mention the shabby, pushy, and overbearing way it was inflicted on Windows 7 & 8 users.That's how Windows 10 itself was inflicted on users.

So, if EOL discontinues forced updates to Win 10, bring it the fu*k on. For me it would be a major headache removed, as I'm sure it would be for many others. Feel free to discuss this with others whom have had their machines bricked by M$ capricious update process.

The too, make yourself a mental note of this; M$ supplies the base OS. Which means, manufacturers and developers have to adhere to M$' standards, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

And BTW, don't delude yourself for a second that those entities haven't been surreptitiously in contact with Satya Nadella wondering, "what can we do to sell more product". Well, forced obsolescence is one surefire way of doing exactly that.

 

[Qaroline]

I would disagree with you on that one. Have you ever tried to run modern versions of Windows on anything less than a 6th or 7th generation Intel chip? Have you tried Google Chrome? Firefox? On the same old hardware?

OK sure, I'll admit that it'll run; however, it'll run like hot crap. Especially so if you only have a quad core processor and not even God can help you if you only have a dual-core Core i3 or *shudder* a Pentium or a Celeron.

Why? Because both Firefox and Google Chrome spawns crap loads of sub-processes and threads that'll bog down anything that's got less than six CPU cores. Throw in an antimalware program, even Windows Defender, and dude... you're going to be in for a bad time.

Then lets take into account that many of those older systems run with less than 8 GBs of RAM and holy sh*t man, you're going to be pounding that page file hard due to high RAM usage. Hell, 16 GBs is not even enough by today's standards; it should be bare minimum. New systems still come with only 8 GBs. UGH!

Today's systems should really come with no less than 32 GBs of RAM due to how much of an absolute RAM pig that both Google Chrome and Firefox are these days. They will absolutely take every GB of RAM you have and smile about it too.

You should see latest Firefox on an Intel Atom with 1GB memory, it can barely run and will saturate the memory to the point -I'd say this is a core feature- uBlock crashes and shows a blank menu, causing the websites to display a shitload of ads, which saturates the memory even more, until it crashes or the machine freezes.


Prebuilts in my country come with 2GB memory and you have to pay $800+ for them, not counting the monitor and peripherals which are sold separately. Most of that hardware unironically belongs in a landfill at this point but, well, the few who can afford a computer have no other choice than being scammed by the only 2 "PC companies" that operate here.
I fix PCs and most of what I get are 1st gen Socket T machines with memory that's still expressed in MBs, there's a lot of super entry level (for the rest of the world) AM2 stuff, Semprons, some dual-core Athlons with crap Biostar or ECS mobos that have capacitor issues. Yet people use them, because there's no alternative. Imagine Chrome running on a 512MB computer, you can't even install it but if you could it'd take aeons to even start.

Sure, Linux would give a teeny tiny bit of "new life" to obsolete hardware like that, but users have no clue what Linux is, or what an operating system is, they'll ask me for "the new Windows" and I have to try and make them understand in layman terms that their 20 year old computer can't run "the new Windows", some will unironically get mad and say I'm trying to "rip them off" and that they've "done their research"..... yeah, the level of patience a technician needs is God-tier.

Devs and the /developed world/ should take notes on how us third world /underdeveloped/ people do literal techno-necromancy to keep hardware several decades old alive and somewhat working, talk about recycling and overextending the life of, well, everything. When your economy is in ruins since the 90s there's only so much you can do about upgrading productive hardware... I learned old school but I'm young, rather fix older reliable components like power supplies than installing new noname chinese junk that will fail after 2-3 months, stuff like that hurts your rep in the business as users think you're installing lower quality parts just for them to pay again, of course there's some -well, most I'd say- techies who do that on purpose, but not me... not that greedy, not in this for the money but because I like tinkering with what belongs in a museum in any other part of the world, be it computers or not.
Oh well there goes another wall of text. F.

 

[yRaz]

You should see latest Firefox on an Intel Atom with 1GB memory, it can barely run and will saturate the memory to the point -I'd say this is a core feature- uBlock crashes and shows a blank menu, causing the websites to display a shitload of ads, which saturates the memory even more, until it crashes or the machine freezes.


Prebuilts in my country come with 2GB memory and you have to pay $800+ for them, not counting the monitor and peripherals which are sold separately. Most of that hardware unironically belongs in a landfill at this point but, well, the few who can afford a computer have no other choice than being scammed by the only 2 "PC companies" that operate here.
I fix PCs and most of what I get are 1st gen Socket T machines with memory that's still expressed in MBs, there's a lot of super entry level (for the rest of the world) AM2 stuff, Semprons, some dual-core Athlons with crap Biostar or ECS mobos that have capacitor issues. Yet people use them, because there's no alternative. Imagine Chrome running on a 512MB computer, you can't even install it but if you could it'd take aeons to even start.

Sure, Linux would give a teeny tiny bit of "new life" to obsolete hardware like that, but users have no clue what Linux is, or what an operating system is, they'll ask me for "the new Windows" and I have to try and make them understand in layman terms that their 20 year old computer can't run "the new Windows", some will unironically get mad and say I'm trying to "rip them off" and that they've "done their research"..... yeah, the level of patience a technician needs is God-tier.

Devs and the /developed world/ should take notes on how us third world /underdeveloped/ people do literal techno-necromancy to keep hardware several decades old alive and somewhat working, talk about recycling and overextending the life of, well, everything. When your economy is in ruins since the 90s there's only so much you can do about upgrading productive hardware... I learned old school but I'm young, rather fix older reliable components like power supplies than installing new noname chinese junk that will fail after 2-3 months, stuff like that hurts your rep in the business as users think you're installing lower quality parts just for them to pay again, of course there's some -well, most I'd say- techies who do that on purpose, but not me... not that greedy, not in this for the money but because I like tinkering with what belongs in a museum in any other part of the world, be it computers or not.
Oh well there goes another wall of text. F.

Im calling BS. When I was in high-school our "workstation" computers had 2GB of RAM in 2005 on PowerPC Macs. 2 cores and 2gigs of ram in Adobe CS2 was wild back then(also didn't have to pay a monthly fee).

If your country is so poor that you're using 2core CPUs with 2 gigs of RAM then there is no way you're paying $800 for them. If you are a literal tech waste site then there is no way you are paying more than what I did for my 1800x system with B350 motherboard new with 16gigs of ram.

 

[captaincranky]

You should see latest Firefox on an Intel Atom with 1GB memory, it can barely run and will saturate the memory to the point -I'd say this is a core feature- uBlock crashes and shows a blank menu, causing the websites to display a shitload of ads, which saturates the memory even more, until it crashes or the machine freezes.


Prebuilts in my country come with 2GB memory and you have to pay $800+ for them, not counting the monitor and peripherals which are sold separately. Most of that hardware unironically belongs in a landfill at this point but, well, the few who can afford a computer have no other choice than being scammed by the only 2 "PC companies" that operate here.
I fix PCs and most of what I get are 1st gen Socket T machines with memory that's still expressed in MBs, there's a lot of super entry level (for the rest of the world) AM2 stuff, Semprons, some dual-core Athlons with crap Biostar or ECS mobos that have capacitor issues. Yet people use them, because there's no alternative. Imagine Chrome running on a 512MB computer, you can't even install it but if you could it'd take aeons to even start.

Sure, Linux would give a teeny tiny bit of "new life" to obsolete hardware like that, but users have no clue what Linux is, or what an operating system is, they'll ask me for "the new Windows" and I have to try and make them understand in layman terms that their 20 year old computer can't run "the new Windows", some will unironically get mad and say I'm trying to "rip them off" and that they've "done their research"..... yeah, the level of patience a technician needs is God-tier.

Devs and the /developed world/ should take notes on how us third world /underdeveloped/ people do literal techno-necromancy to keep hardware several decades old alive and somewhat working, talk about recycling and overextending the life of, well, everything. When your economy is in ruins since the 90s there's only so much you can do about upgrading productive hardware... I learned old school but I'm young, rather fix older reliable components like power supplies than installing new noname chinese junk that will fail after 2-3 months, stuff like that hurts your rep in the business as users think you're installing lower quality parts just for them to pay again, of course there's some -well, most I'd say- techies who do that on purpose, but not me... not that greedy, not in this for the money but because I like tinkering with what belongs in a museum in any other part of the world, be it computers or not.
Oh well there goes another wall of text. F.

And yet your prose and syntax seem like someone with English as a first language. In any event, your situation seems dire enough to consider asking for asylum here in the US. Ostensibly, or to hear the Republicans tell it, our southern border is wide open.

Moving on, I can't even picture being able to get on today's web with a netbook, especially with Firefox. The extended support version is a bonafide dog, or should I say a hog, with regard to memory usage. Opera would just slow down a bit with about 50 tabs open.

I was using a relic Intel rig, (G-31 / Pentium E2200 / Win 7 32 bit /4 GB RAM). It needed an add-in video card, (A turd though, GT-730), to even broach a stable connection.. Firefox would summarily exit at somewhere between 5 and 10 tabs open.

I finally got disgusted, retired the machine, and massively upgraded my situation to a "beast" of an i3-530, 64 bit Win 7, 8 GBs RAM, and GT-1030, and I'm living, (at least for the moment), happily ever after.

Just out of curiosity, where are you posting from, Russia? I imagine their "war economy" is wreaking havoc with availability of pretty much everything.