Researchers warn that Windows 11 restrictions could send 240 million computers to landfills

[Guillermo Belli]

I've installed Windows 11 on many different systems and NEVER had to locate NVMe/RAID drivers during install. Not a single time did the WIndows11 installer ask me for them during install.

To be fair the NVMe/RAID driver stuff is mostly for Intel systems (laptops?) because of their stupid VMD "feature". In some systems it can be disabled and you can install normally, no driver needed.

 

[lripplinger]

I can't even take old electronics to the local county landfill anymore for recycling (we had bins we would put electronics in). The county said the cost of hauling out the "e-waste" was more expensive than was economically feasible. Literally, there wasn't enough people putting stuff in the bins to justify the separate transportation costs for the stuff. Then, to say "oh just put Linux" on old machines also isn't helpful. Sorry, but most of the population on the planet only know Microsoft Windows or Apple MacOS. Most people don't know what Linux is. That is a whole other discussion. Now, that being said, throwing away a perfectly good computer running Windows 10 (because Microsoft decides your computer is "to old") is stupid. This throw away society we live in now is maddening. My parents, for example, have an Intel i5 4th gen based system (which I built for them years ago). It runs Windows 10 just fine, and does what they need. So far, I haven't seen any reason they need Windows 11, since it doesn't do anything better or different than Windows 10.

 

[STbob]

Oh yeah? Please bring up some better alternatives, and also an explanation as to what prevents people from switching en masse!

Claiming that "only" 10 years of *free* support for Windows 10 is unacceptable is just mindbogglingly ridiculous. The last computer that will be unable to run Windows 11 will be sg like 8 years old by 2025 when Win10 will be EOL'd.

What makes you feel entitled to the latest OS on ancient hardware? I really don't understand. Can you install the latest Android on 10 years old phones? Or the latest iOS, for that matter? Or the latest anything, on anything, really?

Name ONE bleeding-edge OS that runs great on decade-old hardware. Just one. Hint: Linux and macOS are not among them.

Then go further, and name just ONE OS that provides FREE updates for more than 10 years. Oh, you can't name one. Alright then. Then maybe keep your nonsense to yourself. Either enjoy your old OS on your old HW, or go whine somewhere else.

"5 years is the max a device should be in use. Anybody that says otherwise clearly does not understand computers."

Wow... Are you sure about that?

The guy was drinking pay no attention to anything he types. Pixel has said 8 years of updates which blows his 5 year theory out of the water. Have another drink!

 

[magisys]

I would disagree with you on that one. Have you ever tried to run modern versions of Windows on anything less than a 6th or 7th generation Intel chip? Have you tried Google Chrome? Firefox? On the same old hardware?

OK sure, I'll admit that it'll run; however, it'll run like hot crap. Especially so if you only have a quad core processor and not even God can help you if you only have a dual-core Core i3 or *shudder* a Pentium or a Celeron.

Why? Because both Firefox and Google Chrome spawns crap loads of sub-processes and threads that'll bog down anything that's got less than six CPU cores. Throw in an antimalware program, even Windows Defender, and dude... you're going to be in for a bad time.

Then lets take into account that many of those older systems run with less than 8 GBs of RAM and holy sh*t man, you're going to be pounding that page file hard due to high RAM usage. Hell, 16 GBs is not even enough by today's standards; it should be bare minimum. New systems still come with only 8 GBs. UGH!

Today's systems should really come with no less than 32 GBs of RAM due to how much of an absolute RAM pig that both Google Chrome and Firefox are these days. They will absolutely take every GB of RAM you have and smile about it too.

your argument is invalid 'cause today the market sells pc way slower than something with 10+ years, cheap computers with 4gb of ram, rebranded very old dual core processor...

I'm using win 11 on pcs with intel 4th and 5th (the forgotten broadwell) gen, it runs and behave the same as win 10, and so does every software that was running with 10. those pcs has 7/8 years
meanwhile on the workplace we have some hp notebook with core i3 10th G series that are way slower than the a.m. pcs

the hardware capabilites is not only represented by the year of manufaturing, this crazy concept is valid only in the capitalist and consumism market, because it's way more simple to make the people believe that old = bad, and new = good, than make a product that really is way way better than before due to it's content, and not due to it's on paper specs being "more" than they was before.

 

[ChipBoundary]

"5 years is the max a device should be in use. Anybody that says otherwise clearly does not understand computers."

Wow... Are you sure about that?

Yes, I am. I say it with 100% confidence that is backed facts and science. It is my job to be sure about that.

 

[ChipBoundary]

The guy was drinking pay no attention to anything he types. Pixel has said 8 years of updates which blows his 5 year theory out of the water. Have another drink!

Apparently, you lack reading comprehension. All devices, regardless of manufacturer or operating system have baked-in hardware security flaws that can never, ever be patched. It doesn't matter how long Google provides updates. No IT person worth their salt will keep a device past 5 years, because they know this to be true.

 

[ddferrari]

Apparently, you lack reading comprehension. All devices, regardless of manufacturer or operating system have baked-in hardware security flaws that can never, ever be patched. It doesn't matter how long Google provides updates. No IT person worth their salt will keep a device past 5 years, because they know this to be true.

Okay, well I get your point about a 5-year limit for IT pros, but does that still apply to a guy like me who uses his rig for surfing and gaming?

I don't save any of the payment forms on sites I use for online purchases, use an encrypted password manager, and am fully prepared to reinstall windows in the event of ransomware. At five years old this rig (specs are in my profile) is still running like new, and I'm smart about clicking on links, etc.

I think for sensitive work like you probably do, this is good advice... but I feel like for my purposes there is no need for a complete do-over.

 

[captaincranky]

@ChristopherB OK, the idea that you can still install modern Linux distros on any old POS is untrue also.
Believe it or not, Mint uses more resources than Windows 7, it also boots slower, given the same system.

I tried installing Mint on a literal relic, (Intel E-6300 Pentium, G-41 board. 4 GB RAM). Granted, Mint is 64 bit only, and could use double that RAM capacity, but 4 GB RAM modules aren't available for Intel of that vintage, and we're dealing with a 2 slot board.

So, M$ has killed the Win 7 activation servers, replacing them with an arduous "CU, (computer user), phone home" bullsh!t nightmare.

I tried to install Mint with a VGA in place, which it mistook for the IGP. Oops, try again without the card..

I got the system up and running, but found as soon as I tried to do just a little too much with it, I'd get a lockup. Which of course, required a hard shutdown. That was fine for a few times, but eventually, Mint self destructed, blowing up lines of meaningless, (to me at least), repetitive. code.

So, I reinstalled the 32 bit Win 7. It locked up when overburdened the same as Mint. However, after a hard kill, all W 7 did, was blowup a black screen asking how I wanted it to restart. "Start Windows normally" worked just fine. In fact if you just ignore the system at that point, 30 seconds later, it will do that on its own and not self destruct .

I liked Mint just fine. In fact, it reminded me of my beloved Windows 7. However , it's system requirements are such that anyone who believes today's more advanced Linux distros are these lightweight OSes that will run on any old rattletrap laying around the house, are sadly mistaken.

Epilog: Due to M$ shunting down the Win 7 servers, you can't even reinstall it in the same machine it came out of, using the original product code. I couldn't get the SP-1 updater package. M$ forced it's "final security update" on me, and after that, I couldn't even navigate to Walmart.com, without any Chromium based browser blowing up security warnings.

And that boyz und Gurlz, is how bad $ wants to get rid of we pesky Win 7 users.

 

[Emperor Crusher]

Window 11 on a Pentium 4? no problem Rufus got you covered

No money for an licence? no problem use it without one (if you dont mind the watermark) or use online KMS. So why dispose of old PC?

Finally, someone else notices that it is possible to BOTH install Windows 11 from scratch OR perform an upgrade of Windows 10 to Windows 11 on the old "unsupported" hardware. Microsoft itself is making this possible and they did it on purpose. They just don't advertise it. That doesn't mean Microsoft can't flip a switch and make this impossible in the future. But for right now, it's possible and I've personally done both. It works.

 

[amghwk]

Oh yeah? Please bring up some better alternatives, and also an explanation as to what prevents people from switching en masse!

Claiming that "only" 10 years of *free* support for Windows 10 is unacceptable is just mindbogglingly ridiculous. The last computer that will be unable to run Windows 11 will be sg like 8 years old by 2025 when Win10 will be EOL'd.

What makes you feel entitled to the latest OS on ancient hardware? I really don't understand. Can you install the latest Android on 10 years old phones? Or the latest iOS, for that matter? Or the latest anything, on anything, really?

Name ONE bleeding-edge OS that runs great on decade-old hardware. Just one. Hint: Linux and macOS are not among them.

Then go further, and name just ONE OS that provides FREE updates for more than 10 years. Oh, you can't name one. Alright then. Then maybe keep your nonsense to yourself. Either enjoy your old OS on your old HW, or go whine somewhere else.

You obviously are not familiar with Linux. You can run Arch Linux or OpenSuse Tumbleweed on a "decade old hardware" very comfortably.

 

[ChipBoundary]

Okay, well I get your point about a 5-year limit for IT pros, but does that still apply to a guy like me who uses his rig for surfing and gaming?

I don't save any of the payment forms on sites I use for online purchases, use an encrypted password manager, and am fully prepared to reinstall windows in the event of ransomware. At five years old this rig (specs are in my profile) is still running like new, and I'm smart about clicking on links, etc.

I think for sensitive work like you probably do, this is good advice... but I feel like for my purposes there is no need for a complete do-over.

No, it affects everybody. This is what I've been screaming into the void for years now. The Internet is completely interconnected, and one compromised machine compromises the whole thing. You say it doesn't matter, but then you get an infection, give it to Granda that doesn't know any better, she gives it to a bank representative that she's dealing with, and the bank worker doesn't question it because "grandma", and boom an entire bank is compromised. Security is the responsibility of every single individual on the Internet, equally. Security is only as strong as the weakest link.

 

[amghwk]

Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I tried installing Mint on a relatively new PC(R9 5950X B2 stepping, x570 motherboard 32gB of RAM, 2TB NVMe SSD, RTX 3090) and encountered an error that nobody had a solution for. I received an error message during boot that prevented the OS from loading. The normal solution when you have that error message pop up is to go into the console and type a certain command. Apparently that error usually happens when the OS is already running. However, you can't do that if you can't even get into the OS. Upon searching and asking around multiple forums, reddit, facebook groups, and discord I found that I wasn't the only person to have that error and nobody had a solution for it. It wasn't limited to Mint either. It happened in other distros. Also, it wasn't due to defective hardware because I could get other distros to install.

Hey, I too have a very similar setup to yours : MSI Unify X570 motherboard, 32GB RAM, multiple SSDs and a RTX4090.

I am using Arch Linux as my main OS, while Windows 11 runs from another drive, but I just use it for easy launching of some games and for some that can't run really well in WINE or Proton (which are becoming less of a problem nowadays). I also use Windows for some applications like the Gold Box Companion - the SSI Gold Box games utility.

I have installed Mint before and it works. Right now, I also have Fedora installed in another drive too. I am not using Fedora that much and I already have Mint installed in my main office computer and would like to continue with Arch in my home desktop. For different "flavours".

So far not faced any problem.

Have you tried disabling TPM and disabled the fast boot or something like that in the BIOS?

 

[jeffbert]

Yes, I did watch the video. NetFlix has an app for Windows 10/11 users where you will get full high definition video and not just sh*tty 720p video. The same goes for Amazon Prime Video, they too provide an app that you can get from the Windows Store just like NetFlix.

The only ones that don't are Max, Disney, and Hulu. They used to but they dropped support for them and replaced them with those stupid "browser wrapped apps" or whatever they call them these days.

Oops, It has been far too long since I was into this stuff! Back in the day, I built my own pcs, The storage was primitive by modern standards, & I had other interests, & looked away for a while- and now, its like a foreign language.

But I do want more than 720 on my HD monitor, & more so, if I ever get a 4k, but there is so much I ought to know, and should have known.

My old DELL i5 has been working fine with 8GB, which I doubled around 2 years ago, & switched out the HDD for a Samsung SDD. Too many tabs on Chrome to count, upward of 50. Works fine.

Actually thought I might have been seeing 1020 on Prime video, sometimes suspected maybe not. Now I know its just 720!? Need to get apps from Windows store?

So very outclassed.

 

[chachano]

Oh yeah? Please bring up some better alternatives, and also an explanation as to what prevents people from switching en masse!

Claiming that "only" 10 years of *free* support for Windows 10 is unacceptable is just mindbogglingly ridiculous. The last computer that will be unable to run Windows 11 will be sg like 8 years old by 2025 when Win10 will be EOL'd.

What makes you feel entitled to the latest OS on ancient hardware? I really don't understand. Can you install the latest Android on 10 years old phones? Or the latest iOS, for that matter? Or the latest anything, on anything, really?

Name ONE bleeding-edge OS that runs great on decade-old hardware. Just one. Hint: Linux and macOS are not among them.

Then go further, and name just ONE OS that provides FREE updates for more than 10 years. Oh, you can't name one. Alright then. Then maybe keep your nonsense to yourself. Either enjoy your old OS on your old HW, or go whine somewhere else.

You can easily run the latest linux distros on hardware from like >1999

 

[chachano]

Someone would have to make an OS as easy to use as Windows; LINUX based OSs are not even in the same weight class when it comes to accessibility for the everyday average user. That is why Windows has dominance; ease of use and as far as big picture; unparalled compatibility.

Sure they are. Ubuntu is easier to install than windows.

 

[chachano]

Oops, It has been far too long since I was into this stuff! Back in the day, I built my own pcs, The storage was primitive by modern standards, & I had other interests, & looked away for a while- and now, its like a foreign language.

But I do want more than 720 on my HD monitor, & more so, if I ever get a 4k, but there is so much I ought to know, and should have known.

My old DELL i5 has been working fine with 8GB, which I doubled around 2 years ago, & switched out the HDD for a Samsung SDD. Too many tabs on Chrome to count, upward of 50. Works fine.

Actually thought I might have been seeing 1020 on Prime video, sometimes suspected maybe not. Now I know its just 720!? Need to get apps from Windows store?

So very outclassed.

50 tabs lol I wish. Last I checked I was at like 380

 

[chachano]

@ChristopherB OK, the idea that you can still install modern Linux distros on any old POS is untrue also.
Believe it or not, Mint uses more resources than Windows 7, it also boots slower, given the same system.

I tried installing Mint on a literal relic, (Intel E-6300 Pentium, G-41 board. 4 GB RAM). Granted, Mint is 64 bit only, and could use double that RAM capacity, but 4 GB RAM modules aren't available for Intel of that vintage, and we're dealing with a 2 slot board.

So, M$ has killed the Win 7 activation servers, replacing them with an arduous "CU, (computer user), phone home" bullsh!t nightmare.

I tried to install Mint with a VGA in place, which it mistook for the IGP. Oops, try again without the card..

I got the system up and running, but found as soon as I tried to do just a little too much with it, I'd get a lockup. Which of course, required a hard shutdown. That was fine for a few times, but eventually, Mint self destructed, blowing up lines of meaningless, (to me at least), repetitive. code.

So, I reinstalled the 32 bit Win 7. It locked up when overburdened the same as Mint. However, after a hard kill, all W 7 did, was blowup a black screen asking how I wanted it to restart. "Start Windows normally" worked just fine. In fact if you just ignore the system at that point, 30 seconds later, it will do that on its own and not self destruct .

I liked Mint just fine. In fact, it reminded me of my beloved Windows 7. However , it's system requirements are such that anyone who believes today's more advanced Linux distros are these lightweight OSes that will run on any old rattletrap laying around the house, are sadly mistaken.

Epilog: Due to M$ shunting down the Win 7 servers, you can't even reinstall it in the same machine it came out of, using the original product code. I couldn't get the SP-1 updater package. M$ forced it's "final security update" on me, and after that, I couldn't even navigate to Walmart.com, without any Chromium based browser blowing up security warnings.

And that boyz und Gurlz, is how bad $ wants to get rid of we pesky Win 7 users.

I'm currently using the latest EndeavourOS on a Thinkpad x230 and it runs just fine.

 

[chachano]

Yes, I am. I say it with 100% confidence that is backed facts and science. It is my job to be sure about that.

That's utter nonsense.

 

[ChristopherB]

Hey, I too have a very similar setup to yours : MSI Unify X570 motherboard, 32GB RAM, multiple SSDs and a RTX4090.

I am using Arch Linux as my main OS, while Windows 11 runs from another drive, but I just use it for easy launching of some games and for some that can't run really well in WINE or Proton (which are becoming less of a problem nowadays). I also use Windows for some applications like the Gold Box Companion - the SSI Gold Box games utility.

I have installed Mint before and it works. Right now, I also have Fedora installed in another drive too. I am not using Fedora that much and I already have Mint installed in my main office computer and would like to continue with Arch in my home desktop. For different "flavours".

So far not faced any problem.

Have you tried disabling TPM and disabled the fast boot or something like that in the BIOS?

I tried with and without TPM and I always leave fast boot disabled. I couldn't get it to boot without that error no matter what I tried after following the suggestions form more experienced Linux users.

 

[takaozo]

My experience with Linux for last 25 years it's that it's only good for headless systems. The second you add a GUI system gets painfully slow or stuff stop working. I tried about all flavours available.
Now deppending on disto some thigs work or dont, both hardware and software.
All issues are "solvable" but a real back pain not to break other stuff.
Updates and Upgrades...what can I tell, only paid Linux had close to zero issues.

Now about UEFI issues, only on Dell systems I can run without any issues. Right now I have a MSI UEFI and only USB made with Balena can install or boot. Ruffus to USB or ISO to DVD cant boot or install for most of the distros.

I tried all Secure boot, TMP on or off still crap. Looks like the UEFI firmware it's very different from one vendor to another.

For learning I recomend to use a VM or remove your drives and install on unused Windows drive.

Gaming on Linux still crap since no game is native and all must be emulated.

For routers, firewalls, web severs, DB and all you can run without a screen it's still the best.

Windows may be a turd but at least games work native whitout any EMU.

 

[captaincranky]

I'm currently using the latest EndeavourOS on a Thinkpad x230 and it runs just fine.

I not sure how to approach this apples to oranges and completely out of context response to my post that you quoted. Does, "hooray for you", sound appropriate?