Star Citizen has raised $600 million and isn't slowing down after 10 years

[Achaios]

If you like rly blv that Star Citizen is not a pyramid scam and those behind it care about anything else except cash influx then I've got a statue in Stranglethorn Valley to sell you.

 

[wiyosaya]

Is it fake? In its current state it is many MANY years away from a proper release. forget the features that are not ready, the current game breaking bugs alone will take several years to fix.

Speaking as a software developer that works on the project with first-hand knowledge, yes?

 

[Burty117]

That's stupid. Scams do hire a lot of people. Especially if they want to cover themselves. Hiring people makes stuff seems legible. And scams are usually starting producing something, simply do not deliver the final product.

So by that logic, all crowd funded efforts aren't scams, until they fail to deliver something, and then become a scam?

 

[Gezzer]

Disclaimer, I have invested quite a large amount of money in the early development of the game. I tapered off and other then one pledge in Dec 2021, haven't done any pledging since 2018. So do I think it's a scam, either on purpose or by happen stance?

No, it could be, but I don't think it is. What I do think might be happening is someone's reach is exceeding their grasp. It's a well known fact that Chris Roberts dreams big, real big. What he doesn't always do is deliver on his dreams, be they games or movies. Freelancer is a perfect example of this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freelancer_(video_game)

Fact is AFAIK Freelancer suffered from much of what's currently happening with Star Citizen. Well until Microsoft took the game away so they could finally release something. Again AFAIK this totally p*ssed CR off. So much so that he moved into film producing until he revived his game development with SC. As is common with film he had some hits and some misses, but other than some dubious financing was reasonably successful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(video_game_developer)

So IMHO SC is CR's magnum opus, or at least it is in his eyes. Creating the game he meant Freelancer to be without any producers getting in his way, or holding him accountable. I'm sure he started it with every intention of delivering a unbelievable experience, resplendent with untried and cutting edge technology. A fully simulated universe in every sense of the word.

But the best of intentions can still lead someone astray. The big question isn't if it is or isn't a scam, it's if CR can actually pull it off or are we looking at another Duke Nuke Em' Forever? More importantly what happens if he does fail? Will SC end up being less a final masterpiece and instead be more of a pathetic swan song? Only time will tell. And at the rate things are going that's quite a lot of time till we see...

Me? I'm still hopeful that it'll be in beta by the time I retire, in 2 and 1/2 years... But I'm not holding my breath, and if like many backers I know of I die before it finally comes together. Well it is what it is. But I consider it money poorly spent and if it does actually end up being all the CR sold it as, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Puiu]

Speaking as a software developer that works on the project with first-hand knowledge, yes?

Actually yes, I'm a programmer (not in games right now, but I have a ton of acquaintances that do work in game development). The last mile is always what takes the most time, the rest is just fluff. I don't need project specific details to tell you this simple educated conclusion.

The amount of code and dependencies that are included nowadays in software development makes debugging extremely time intensive. And some bugs just can't be fixed and you have to write code around it. It's also why being an automated testing developers pays so well (I kinda envy my brother who does this ).

 

[Burty117]

Disclaimer, I have invested quite a large amount of money in the early development of the game. I tapered off and other then one pledge in Dec 2021, haven't done any pledging since 2018. So do I think it's a scam, either on purpose or by happen stance?

No, it could be, but I don't think it is. What I do think might be happening is someone's reach is exceeding their grasp. It's a well known fact that Chris Roberts dreams big, real big. What he doesn't always do is deliver on his dreams, be they games or movies. Freelancer is a perfect example of this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freelancer_(video_game)

I only joined in on the project Feb 2019 with a starter kit, bought a couple of ships since but not spent anything in recent years.

Since you've been following the project, and it looks like a few folks around here have, does anyone get this feeling Squadron 42 might be posing a PR problem?

They claim the vast majority of developers in the studios are spending their time developing Squadron 42, But they don't want to give us any real insight into the game so not to spoil anything.

It's been years since they last did a video update, which from memory, was a walk around a level in a deteriorated space station.

The problem is, everyone can play Star Citizen and it's what the media and CIG themselves concentrate on, yet, according to CIG themselves, most of their time and effort is going on Squadron 42.

I feel like they really need to talk about Squadron 42 more, I get there's a story and characters they don't want to spoil the surprise of, but the odd level look around or cut scene with characters we've seen before can't hurt, maybe talk about the area of the universe it's set in? show us a planet or two? town or two?
If so much effort is going to Squadron 42, surely there must be loads they can show us considering they're able to make update videos for Star Citizen nearly every week and by their own admission, not many developers are working on SC as they are SQ42.

 

[wiyosaya]

Actually yes, I'm a programmer (not in games right now, but I have a ton of acquaintances that do work in game development). The last mile is always what takes the most time, the rest is just fluff. I don't need project specific details to tell you this simple educated conclusion.

The amount of code and dependencies that are included nowadays in software development makes debugging extremely time intensive. And some bugs just can't be fixed and you have to write code around it. It's also why being an automated testing developers pays so well (I kinda envy my brother who does this ).

I'm a software developer, too, with nearly 30-years of experience. What I can comment on is how projects get mismanaged, feature creep, lack of solid requirements, and all the usual software development stuff.

What I cannot comment on is having first-hand knowledge of SC or SQ-42 because I do not work on the project, thus, anything I say WRT SC or SQ-42 is speculation.

Likewise, you have not told us that you work on the project, that makes your opinion of what is happening ripe with as much speculation as what I say about the project.

 

[Puiu]

I'm a software developer, too, with nearly 30-years of experience. What I can comment on is how projects get mismanaged, feature creep, lack of solid requirements, and all the usual software development stuff.

What I cannot comment on is having first-hand knowledge of SC or SQ-42 because I do not work on the project, thus, anything I say WRT SC or SQ-42 is speculation.

Likewise, you have not told us that you work on the project, that makes your opinion of what is happening ripe with as much speculation as what I say about the project.

"mismanaged, feature creep, lack of solid requirements, and all the usual software development stuff" - sounds like an apt description of SC and what ex-devs say about it.

here's a snippet from a few years ago:

Speaking to 20 former employees of Cloud Imperium, Forbes presents a picture of Roberts as a "micromanager and poor steward of resources" in a "chaotic" work environment. Cloud Imperium has 537 employees at five separate offices, which in 2017 cost the company $30 million in total salaries - the company's largest expense. Though there is no indication of how much was paid specifically to employees at the company's various levels, the report notes that Roberts purchased a house for $4.7 million in LA in September of last year. Robert says that the money for the house came from his own success prior to Cloud Imperium, having been a partner at Origin decades ago and the majority owner of Digital Anvil before the Microsoft acquisition.

Reports like this have been given annually. Where there's smoke there's fire... but we've been seeing the flame and feeling the heat directly

 

[Nandiman]

Scams don't hire people

A particular geometric shape would disagree. Spoiler alert, it's a pyramid.

 

[Gezzer]

I only joined in on the project Feb 2019 with a starter kit, bought a couple of ships since but not spent anything in recent years.

Since you've been following the project, and it looks like a few folks around here have, does anyone get this feeling Squadron 42 might be posing a PR problem?

They claim the vast majority of developers in the studios are spending their time developing Squadron 42, But they don't want to give us any real insight into the game so not to spoil anything.

It's been years since they last did a video update, which from memory, was a walk around a level in a deteriorated space station.

The problem is, everyone can play Star Citizen and it's what the media and CIG themselves concentrate on, yet, according to CIG themselves, most of their time and effort is going on Squadron 42.

I feel like they really need to talk about Squadron 42 more, I get there's a story and characters they don't want to spoil the surprise of, but the odd level look around or cut scene with characters we've seen before can't hurt, maybe talk about the area of the universe it's set in? show us a planet or two? town or two?
If so much effort is going to Squadron 42, surely there must be loads they can show us considering they're able to make update videos for Star Citizen nearly every week and by their own admission, not many developers are working on SC as they are SQ42.

Is SQ42 part of the problem? I'm sure it is. But again it's as much the scope of both SQ42 and SC that's the problem as anything. As for featuring it more, well that can lead to an even bigger problem. If you go through all the videos CIGs has released over the years you'll notice something. Chris is featured in fewer and fewer of them as you get closer to today. Why?

Well IMHO because he dreams so big and believes he can makes those dreams a reality, Chris has this tendency to make off hand remarks that sound more like design goals, even promised features, instead of simple musings on possibilities. Much of what backers expect from both projects are based off CR "promises". In fact IMHO much of the debates suffer from the same.

I think the hype department has finally come to realize that they need to be very careful what they say, show, and how the backers react to those things. The project needs positive hype to keep the backers pledging. That's why each update to SC is highly polished for Alpha builds, they need to be. But that isn't how traditional Alphas work. They can contain bugs so bad they erase vital system files, and graphic placeholders that are complete eye sores.

So if SQ42 is taking a more traditional Alpha path than SC it could be more of a detriment to focus on it more than not. True Alphas are rough as hell, and often not even close to a representation of the potential finished project. So they have to ask themselves, show us how the SQ42 sausage is made as they make it, with the possibility of creating more drama? Or keep their cards close to their chest until it reaches a beta state? I don't envy them having to decide, at all...

 

[JoeBlobers]

Weird . Sony makes AAA games for just 200-250 mlns .

in regard to games like Starfield . There re a lot - 4 Mass Effect games, a bunch of Star Wars games and etc. . In Jedi Fallen Order I am stuck in an ice rink and cannot continue . Hate this ice rink . I love this game .

Sony make sequels offering very little in terms of ambition. Nothing comparable to Star Citizen.

By the way CB2077 took 8 years to be released plus 2 years and half to be finished. From a company with a 1000 employees, all up-to-date pipelines from day one. So in comparison, SC (MMO) + SQ42 are way more ambitious, from a company that have 12 employees at end of kickstarter, no pipelines, a basic game engine and 6M$.

They are not in the last steps of development with PES implemented and server meshing starting first implementation beginning of Q4.

 

[JoeBlobers]

Is SQ42 part of the problem? I'm sure it is. But again it's as much the scope of both SQ42 and SC that's the problem as anything. As for featuring it more, well that can lead to an even bigger problem. If you go through all the videos CIGs has released over the years you'll notice something. Chris is featured in fewer and fewer of them as you get closer to today. Why?

Well IMHO because he dreams so big and believes he can makes those dreams a reality, Chris has this tendency to make off hand remarks that sound more like design goals, even promised features, instead of simple musings on possibilities. Much of what backers expect from both projects are based off CR "promises". In fact IMHO much of the debates suffer from the same.

I think the hype department has finally come to realize that they need to be very careful what they say, show, and how the backers react to those things. The project needs positive hype to keep the backers pledging. That's why each update to SC is highly polished for Alpha builds, they need to be. But that isn't how traditional Alphas work. They can contain bugs so bad they erase vital system files, and graphic placeholders that are complete eye sores.

So if SQ42 is taking a more traditional Alpha path than SC it could be more of a detriment to focus on it more than not. True Alphas are rough as hell, and often not even close to a representation of the potential finished project. So they have to ask themselves, show us how the SQ42 sausage is made as they make it, with the possibility of creating more drama? Or keep their cards close to their chest until it reaches a beta state? I don't envy them having to decide, at all...

The decision as already been made: closed till Beta.
SQ42 is also used as test bed for SC features. New features added to SC are coming from SQ42, except those specific to SC like full gameplay loop that may not be part of SQ42 in full.