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StarCraft 2 official discussion thread

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Matthew, Dec 10, 2010.

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  1. SNGX1275 TS Special Forces Posts: 11,891   +117

    Arris and cChriSv - I'm actually very inexpierenced with Toss in SC1 and SC2. I've played them a bit in SC1, but only twice in SC2.

    As far as the macro managing problem with zerg you mention Arris, I'm not quite sure I follow. Maybe that shows how out of touch I am with everything? How can it be difficult? I literally make drones and drones then just as I run out of ability to build I make an extractor, then a drone. Then I either wait for an OL or I make a spawning pool, in any case I'm racing to make roaches. Once I get about 6 roaches I feel "safe" because hopefully my partner has done something good too. Then I'm set on getting hydras and upgrading them. I have gone air, but I've been less successful. I did go mass air with full upgrades in SC1, but I'm still learning build orders in SC2.

    As far as trying to do macro stuff with other races.... well ffs you can only create 1 dude at a time at any dude producing facility, so, and I may be missing something, the only way you can group units is to wait until they all pool at the rallying point and then group them there.

    With zerg, you can grab all your larvae and group them, then morph them all into 1 unit at once. Then for instance I can have 1-3 as hydras, and then say 4 and 5 as mutas, and then I doubt I have any space left, but if I did I could make some only anti air or only anti ground flyers as 6. You can also withstand a mass drone killing by an opponent at later parts in the game when you can make 12+ drones all at once.
    SNGX1275, Aug 16, 2011
    #21

  2. Arris TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,307   +17

    It's more the going to each queen and larvae injecting each hive. I guess at least you don't have other production buildings to group up for macro production (barracks, factory, starport etc. etc.) so guess it balances out. I'm just still more used to building supply depot/pylon for more supply than having to queue up an overlord and remember to send it off to oversee an area. I guess my problem is that I don't group my hives and just produce from all at the same time like I do with other races. It's just a bit alien to me :D

    I like the simplicity of using mass gateway units as protoss once you have warp gate tech researched. Press W, spam warp ins in range of a pylon or warp prism :)

    Terran get a very good first units in the Marines. Nice unit specific upgrades from tech lab and can attack ground and air from range. Compared to zerglings and zealots they are quite versatile.
    Arris, Aug 17, 2011
    #22

  3. abe10tiger TechSpot Paladin Posts: 742

    I might get my self a copy of this game. :)
    abe10tiger, Aug 17, 2011
    #23

  4. Arris TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,307   +17

    I would recommend it. Even if you don't play multiplayer the campaign is good with a nice storyline.
    Arris, Aug 17, 2011
    #24

  5. abe10tiger TechSpot Paladin Posts: 742

    Yeah, I've played the first game and I liked it so I guess that Starcraft 2 would be better. :)
    abe10tiger, Aug 17, 2011
    #25

  6. Arris TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,307   +17

    Oh, by the way. They have evolved the demo version of SC2 into a "Starter edition" when you can play a limited bit of the game as the Terran race. Might be worth trying out before you buy :)
    Arris, Aug 17, 2011
    #26
     

  7. abe10tiger TechSpot Paladin Posts: 742

    Right-o! Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to check it out. :)
    abe10tiger, Aug 17, 2011
    #27

  8. vChRiSv Newcomer, in training Posts: 44

    You should definitely get it. Great game, well worth the price! I can't wait for the expansion to come out, I don't remember if they set a release date for it yet.
    vChRiSv, Aug 17, 2011
    #28

  9. abe10tiger TechSpot Paladin Posts: 742

    Ow I'm definitely going to get it as soon as I get the money. :p
    abe10tiger, Aug 18, 2011
    #29

  10. SNGX1275 TS Special Forces Posts: 11,891   +117

    I don't group hives, I build them close enough together that I can control click on a larvae and select them all. Of course I set rally points for each hive.

    I suppose using queens is the way to go, but I find them cumbersome to use and so far I've been doing decent without them. Perhaps as I get better I'll see how critical they are..?
    SNGX1275, Aug 18, 2011
    #30

  11. vChRiSv Newcomer, in training Posts: 44

    I'd suggest you learn to use Queens ASAP. They are like the most important unit for Zerg. Need to make sure you constantly inject larva to each hatchery and it's useful to spread creep around the map too. :)
    vChRiSv, Aug 18, 2011
    #31

  12. SNGX1275 TS Special Forces Posts: 11,891   +117

    But a queen costs 150 and needs attention to help the hatcheries. Meanwhile, for 300 I can build another hatchery, get +2 on units, and 3 additional larvae. Queens don't make economical sense to me right now, and its an additional unit I need to pay attention to.
    SNGX1275, Aug 18, 2011
    #32

  13. Arris TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,307   +17

    Queens spread creep that give most units a speed movement bonus and vision of the area the creep covers, so very useful. You put down one creep tumor and then spawn more from that tumor. Group hives, then hit your hive group key and press S to select larvae and then the hotkey for the unit you want to build a mass of and it will queue them at whatever hive has larvae ready to use. Something I was told recently about queens, you can select and hit the key for larvae inject and click on the mini map and they will inject in the nearest hive instead of having to go to the location and manually click on the hive. Not sure if this works in groups but think it makes sense to work in that fashion. Makes them a little less cumbersome. Plus early in the game they are one of the few anti air units zerg gets, if you can use those early game it saves getting spore crawlers and the money saves might win you the game later on!

    An additional hive in your main base can be a very useful tool, even more so if you also have a queen there to inject larvae into the main hive and the additional one, although it isn't ideal in every fight. Often it is better to build that hive at another place for mining and gas.
    Arris, Aug 18, 2011
    #33

  14. vChRiSv Newcomer, in training Posts: 44

    Larva inject is the most important part, 150 minerals for being able to create extra larva constantly is worth it (I think it makes like... 4 extra ones). And that lets you build more drones quickly so you can have a stronger economy, or build quick units to attack/defend. It's an investment that pays off quickly. :)
    vChRiSv, Aug 18, 2011
    #34

  15. SNGX1275 TS Special Forces Posts: 11,891   +117

    Its 4 larvae vs 3 larvae. I usually have 2 to 3 hives in my main base before expanding, and 4-8 in my main base before the game is over. I really don't have production issues. By the time an enemy can get air, I can have hydras or air, they require the same tech leveling. Spending 150 on a queen can net me 3 drones, there is a long time period between making a queen, the spawning of the queen, and injecting larvae, and then getting 4 drones. Meanwhile, after that first injection, she can't inject again for a while because her energy is too low. So there is a long period of time where I have 3 drones getting me mins and or morphing into structures where if I built a queen I'd just be sitting there, several minutes, before I see any benefit.

    Having said all that, next time I play I'll try to extensively use queens and see.
    SNGX1275, Aug 19, 2011
    #35

  16. vChRiSv Newcomer, in training Posts: 44

    This sounds like the old way of playing Zerg, back in SC1. :p Nowadays you never need more than 1 hive in your main. Your 2nd hive should be your first expo, and Zerg players tend to grab that ASAP. Zerg is all about macro, so you just grab as many expansions as possible.

    You're supposed to use 1 Queen per hive. So once you get Queen, she injects the Hive and by the time that injection has completed... she will have enough energy for a second. She actually recovers energy quicker than the injection time (as I recall).

    Yeah, definitely try this out yourself. Me saying this much only goes so far, lol. :haha: Might want to try watching some pro Zerg players too, IdrA is a great Zerg player to watch.
    vChRiSv, Aug 19, 2011
    #36

  17. SNGX1275 TS Special Forces Posts: 11,891   +117

    Ok, I played 3 games fully committing myself to using queens. I'll admit they are more useful than I thought. I'm not 100% sold that its better than having 6 or so hatcheries per base for churning out mass quantities of units, but then again, when you are running 6+ hatcheries and making units as fast as you can you rarely have enough minerals to sustain that for long.

    I found them useful for when I was low on minerals and wasn't building anything, I could at least be making more larvae for "free", but on the other hand, I may be better served not sitting idly and making more drones from the available larvae.

    At the very least, it makes for a more elegant looking base. :D
    SNGX1275, Aug 19, 2011
    #37

  18. vChRiSv Newcomer, in training Posts: 44

    Glad to hear it! If you keep up with larva injections then you never need multiple hatcheries in your main. Whenever you want a new hatchery just go grab another expansion... until you control the entire map. :)

    I meant to play this weekend, but I got caught up playing The Witcher. Was hoping to crack into the Platinum league this weekend, I've still been messing around in the Gold league lately. XD Although I play a lot of practice matches against my friends in Diamond, but they just whoop my butt all the time.

    Note: YAY! I'm finally not a newcomer, lol.
    vChRiSv, Aug 22, 2011
    #38

  19. Arris TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,307   +17

    400 minerals for a hive that gives 3 larvae (and increases supply a bit) vs 150 for a queen that can provide an addition 4 to an existing hive, heal units and buildings with transfuse, create creep tumors that give speed bonuses to units and vision through the "fog of war" and give reasonable anti air and also can attack ground units. I do find that I find it annoying to have to manage injections but the benefits and lower cost make it worthwhile.
    Arris, Aug 22, 2011
    #39

  20. Tyler3234 Newcomer, in training

    is it worth it? or should i jsut stick to free mmorpgs?
    Tyler3234, Aug 23, 2011
    #40
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