Symptoms of my OC attempt

[huck_finn]

I have just built my first pc with hopes in overclocking it.

Specs:
AMD 64 3200+ Venice
GIGABYTE GA-K8N Ultra-9 Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX
ZALMAN CNPS7700-ALCU 120mm
CORSAIR 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 Unbuffered Dual Channel

Gigabyte comes with EasyTuner, which is what I was using. I bumped it up from 2000 to 2200 no problem, let it run for a bit, then moved to 2300 and it froze. I had to reboot and it seems to have fixed itself.

Is the freezing a symptom of the cheaper RAM? or is it a power thing? I have a 500w power supply in my case... but I've read about people jamming it up to 2800 without increasing the power.

My video card is a rather cheap ATI 300SE, but I'm not sure if that would have an effect or not.

Thanks for any tips!!

 

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Try changing the FSB:memory speed ratio, so that the memory runs slower.

 

[vnf4ultra]

Agreed, set a memory divider, you're memory can't probably take much more speed.(it should be like setting the mem. from 200mhz to 166 or something).

Also, decrease you htt multi, to keep the htt bus in spec(under 1000, (5x200, stock) =1000, so you should go to 4x to keep it under 1000 if you oc). Go from the stock 5x to 4x(and 3x if you go above 250 htt speed).

Don't expect to get an oc like you mention, the people that get 2.8ghz at stock vcore are either lying, or very, very lucky. A more resonable goal is 2.4-2.6ghz with some vcore increase(1.5-1.55v)

 

[huck_finn]

Thanks guys,

I have some reading to do. I looked around in my BIOS but there are so many settings, and I'm not familiar with the terms yet. I cant figure out how to set an FSB:RAM ratio.

That sounds like the way to go though rather than overclocking the memory, boosting the voltage to the RAM makes me a little nervous, I dont want to fry it and be out $100 just yet.

When I'm educated, and brave enough, I'll post my results. Thanks for the help, if you know any sites that explain BIOS terminology I'd appreciate it!

 

[huck_finn]

New results

Ok, so I didn't go crazy.. I just want to know if I'm on the right path.

I lowered the multiplier to 8x and raised the HTT to 251 which takes the CPU to 2010mhz.

I also lowered the RAM to 166mhz instead of the stock 200mhz to keep it from overloading.... so now the RAM is at 201mhz, and I still have some room for it I think since my last attempt took it to 220mhz.

What do you guys think?

 

[vnf4ultra]

Good, but why did you decrease the cpu multi? Wouldn't stock be 10x? So, even if you do drop the multi, wouldn't you only be at 9x?

Isn't 2000mhz the stock speed of a 3200+? If so, you only got 10mhz oc.

If you have your cpu htt speed at 250, your multi at 10x, and your ram at 166/200(5/6), you'd be at 208mhz memory(ddr416), and 2,500 mhz. I'd think your venice might do that, if you increase your vcore to like ~1.5+. Put your htt multi to 4x(so you'd have 250mhz x 4 = 1000mhz, the optimal speed), but go to 3x if you go above 250.

Make sure you have acceptable temps.

Anyway, congrats, looks like you're getting the hang of it.

 

[huck_finn]

That post might have been premature. I ran those configs for about an hour, then dropped the multiplier to 7.5 to see about raising the fsb more. As soon as I committed the 7.5 the system froze, crashed, then ran a chkdsk and now there's no usernames to login at reboot.

I cant get in with safe mode. I ran a system recovery and did fixmbr. Cleared the CMOS and nothing is working.

My only other option that I can think of now is to raise the vcore. If that doesn't work, then I think I'll have to reformat. Unless someone else has ideas?

Good, but why did you decrease the cpu multi? Wouldn't stock be 10x? So, even if you do drop the multi, wouldn't you only be at 9x?

Not sure? I thought that decreasing the multi, but raising the HTT/FSB gave you faster processing? Maybe I misread.

Isn't 2000mhz the stock speed of a 3200+? If so, you only got 10mhz oc.

yes, it's 2000, but since I thought that the FSB made the difference, I was under the impression that raising it would help.

If you have your cpu htt speed at 250, your multi at 10x, and your ram at 166/200(5/6), you'd be at 208mhz memory(ddr416), and 2,500 mhz. I'd think your venice might do that, if you increase your vcore to like ~1.5+. Put your htt multi to 4x(so you'd have 250mhz x 4 = 1000mhz, the optimal speed), but go to 3x if you go above 250.

I'm going to try to raise the vcore slowly... due to the crash, to see if it fixes it.

Make sure you have acceptable temps.

Temps were good at around 32*

Anyway, congrats, looks like you're getting the hang of it.

Thanks!! I'm learning, but man it can be frustrating! I'll have to do more reading. But I think I've read through all the overclocking guides I could find. Maybe I'm just not getting it.

 

[vnf4ultra]

Maybe your board doesn't have an automatic agp/pci/pci-e bus lock. If it doesn't, then when you oc the htt speed, then the pci/pci-e speeds also speed up, which is bad, it can fry your cards(pci/pci-e), and corrupt your hd. It's sometimes called pci/pci-e asynchronous(not synchronized), but some cheaper motherboards don't even have a pci/pci-e lock. If you get clockgen(the proper one for your chipset), you can check your pci/pci-e speeds when you're oc'ed, if your pci is above 33mhz, it's oc'ed, and therefore not locked.(same with pci-e, it should be 100mhz IIRC).

If you harddrive got corrupted, then it might be best to reformat/reinstall, if you won't lose anything but your time doing it.


You're right, in a way, about speeding up the htt speed, but it would only really help if you got your memory above 200mhz(ddr400) speed, and then only marginally(due to more memory bandwidth).

I don't think amd cpus "like" half multi's, I think I saw that somewhere, but I can't remember.


I think it would be better to have the cpu speed high, than the htt speed high.

Hope this helps, and hope you get it back to normal.
vnf4ultra

 

[huck_finn]

I don't think amd cpus "like" half multi's, I think I saw that somewhere, but I can't remember.

vnf4ultra

I think you're right. I've been spending some time on ICQ asking around and someone thought the same thing... so that's two people who said the same thing.

I think I'll have to reformat, nothing else I'm trying is working.

I remember seeing the PCIE section in the bios. There were settings for it and I think it's on auto now. I think for future overclocks, I'm going to stick with making changes in the BIOS instead of using the software so I can just reset the CMOS if all else fails.

One more question... my mobo supports DDR 400/333 and on down... so would OC'ing the ram even do anything?

Thanks for all the help by the way!!

 

[vnf4ultra]

I like oc'ing from the bios better, many windows based programs just don't have all the options.

Ok, about the ram, my motherboard(vnf4ultra), supports ddr400/333/266/200, at stock htt speed(200). If I oc the htt speed to 250mhz, and don't use a divider(keep it at 200mhz in bios), then if I had some ddr500 memory, it would be running at that speed, but ddr500 is expensive. Most ddr400 ram will run a little higher than stock, usually ~215mhz for value ram(ddr430).

On the other end, I could put my memory divider down to 100, and have my memory running really slow, so it supports a wide range of speeds.

Do you know the memory divider calculation formula? Here it is.
Multiply your memory divider's(166/200, or ~5/6) inverse(200/166 ~6/5), by your cpu's current multi. So 6/5 x 10 =12. If there's any decimal, round up. Then take your cpu's oc'ed speed(say 250 x 10) 2500mhz and divide it by the number(12). So 2500/12=208.3mhz, so ddr 417.

 

[huck_finn]

So how would I change the FSB:RAM ratio through the bios? I know each bios is slightly different... but what am I looking for? Is the ratio caused just by changing the ram from 400 to 333? or is there more to it?

Here's my plan:
change the ratio to 5:4 by dropping from 400 to 333
Increase voltage to ram and cpu by 1 notch
raise fsb to 250 (slowly)

Which should make my cpu 2.5mhz and keep my ram at 2.0 where it's stable.

Sorry to keep asking so many questions, but i'm a little nervous now... this is my main machine, and I have all my stuff backed up pretty well, but it's a pain, and I'm sorta scared to damage the hardware since it's all new.

 

[vnf4ultra]

Going to 333 instead of 400 would be a 5:6 ratio.
I think that'd be all you would change to change the ratio.


Do you know about gigabyte's ctrl+f1 bios key combo? It unlocks more features if you press the keys, if I got the keys right.

 

[huck_finn]

Do you know about gigabyte's ctrl+f1 bios key combo? It unlocks more features if you press the keys, if I got the keys right.

Yes, it was in the manual... they just explain what all the items are very well. I guess that's what google is for!

So if it's a 5:6 ratio, or 6:5... (it's the same right?) then I can follow the formula that you wrote on the last one. Perfect! Thanks again!!

 

[vnf4ultra]

6:5 isn't 5:6, 5:6 is the ratio, 6:5 is the inverse(flipped fraction) of your ratio that you'd use in the formula.

Multiply your memory divider's(166/200, or ~5/6) inverse(200/166 ~6/5), by your cpu's current multi. So 6/5 x 10 =12. If there's any decimal, round up. Then take your cpu's oc'ed speed(say 250 x 10) 2500mhz and divide it by the number(12). So 2500/12=208.3mhz, so ddr 417.

So with the 5:6 divider(your 333 instead of 400),
At 200htt speed(stock), you'd have a 333 mz ram speed
At 225htt speed, you'd have a 375mhz ram speed.
At 250, you'd have a 417mhz ram speed.

Above 250(or maybe a little lower), you'll have to drop the divider lower, to 266 in bios, a 2:3 ratio.
At 275 you'd be at 366mhz with the 2:3 ratio.
At 300 you'd be at 400mhz.

 

[huck_finn]

ok, I'm going to try it with the 5:6 divider, setting the ram to 333.

I'll let you know what happens!! Thanks again...

 

[huck_finn]

I tried, and the same thing happened.

I didn't drop the multiplier down this time, just decreased the DRAM from 200 to 166 (thought it said 400 for some reason) then slowly raised the FSB using the EasyTuner software that came with the mobo.

I was at 2210, (ran Prime95 for 17min with 0 errors) then clicked up 2% to 2250 and it froze and I had to reboot. Fortunately my hard drive is still good this time, but man... i'm frustrated!

Something else that happened, not sure if it's related though, is when the computer boots the bios hangs on the welcome screen for a bit before discovering the drives... then goes black, then windows xp loading screen, then black again, then the monitor power cycles and then boots normally. Maybe this should be posted somewhere else, but I've tried FDISK /MBR ... fixmbr (with the install cd) ... flashed the bios... checked the boot.ini

I dont get it.

 

[vnf4ultra]

I really don't know man, I can't see anything wrong. Maybe you got a bad oc'ing cpu?

I'll think about it more, and maybe post back.

 

[huck_finn]

No problem, I appreciate all the guidance you've given me already!!