The Upgrade Path: AMD Ryzen 3700X to 5800X3D vs. Intel Core i9-9900K

[manowar51]

Not if that upgrade suddenly gives you a whopping 20 to 25% increase in performance like AMD has been giving lately. Meanwhile, Intel has been giving us what? Table scraps.

This is a "fanboy" point. The difference between Intels and AMDs own generations varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. AMD for a very long time were giving us no increases every year and Intel in the past have delivered big increases too. The fact is these companies fluctuate. Its not a given that AMD will increase by 20-25% every time at all.

If you are paying $360 (current price of the 5800X3D here in the USA) just to increase your CPU performance by 40-50% you are doing it wrong. You are just wasting your money and you will be much better off waiting a year or two and spending the same money, you would get a way bigger increase in performance along with a whole bunch of new features.

In no world does upgrading to a 5800X3D for $360 make any sense if you have a 3700X. Maybe if you have a 3100 or worse. Even then, I still think you are better off waiting and/or spending more for newer platform stuff.

Where AMDs socket compatibility really shines is on the used market. You have far more options when it comes to buying old used kit. But for upgrading in socket? Thats a rich mans game...

 

[Strawman]

Oh yeah, they added some eCores. Big deal! And then you have to contend with the screwy process of making sure that threads are being routed to the right cores.

With AMD, you don't have to worry about that at all. Even with the upcoming Zen C cores there's no black magic needed because oh yeah, unlike Intel, the microarchitecture is the same.

That's the only difference? Pcores are up by 800mhz, cache is bigger and 800mhz faster, and so are ecores.

And yes, you have the same issues with amd, you are just a huge fanboy and cant admit it. Have you heard of dual ccds? Have you seen the 7950x 3d losing to the 7800x 3d? Jesus christ, amd fans are just unbearable

 

[Burty117]

Really? No improvements? None at all? Are you guys actually drunk? There is no improvement between an i7 12700 to an i7 14700? From a 12900 to a 14900? What the actual hell...

It's like you don't read reviews or look at charts (and understand them).
I'll pull these quotes directly from Techspots own review:
"Comparing the 13th and 14th gen models, we observed virtually identical performance."

"The 14th gen models showed minimal improvements over the 13th gen models, a maximum of 3% in our tests."

"This poses challenges for Intel since the Zen 4 3D V-Cache models are over 15% faster, with the 7950X3D being 17% faster than the 14900K."

"despite its 17% speed advantage, the 7950X3D reduced power consumption by 15%, marking it as more efficient than the 14900K."

And the usual theme throughout the entire review:
"Relative to the 13900K, the 14900K showed a 5% performance increase, a similar trend observed between the 14700K and 14600K and their predecessors."

There are no performance improvements between the 12th, 13th and 14th gen Intel CPU's, just more power usage to push clocks slightly higher.

Here's a lovely little IPC comparison between 12th, 13th and 14th gen if you really need some evidence Intel have done nothing.

As you're about to find out, there is no upgrade path with your "brand new" Intel motherboard, just the same CPU pushed ever so slightly harder (for more power) and a smattering of mostly useless E Cores that Intel refuse to use properly unless you have 14th gen, oh and only supports 2 games.

Have you heard of dual ccds? Have you seen the 7950x 3d losing to the 7800x 3d? Jesus christ, amd fans are just unbearable

That's an issue that can be fixed by the end user though, it's really not the end of the world, with Intel, you are at the mercy of "Intel APO" which only supports the 14th gen and only works in two games.

With the 7950X3D, you can either disable the non X3D CCD or you can park the cores manually, with Intel, you can't do anything, just pray they might open up support to 12th and 13th gen? Then pray they add more games to APO?

Edit: From that Hardware Unboxed video at 7:38:
"What could be a big problem for Intel is there lack of platform commitment. In-fact this is likely been a real problem for some years now, resulting in a loss of sales. For example, had you purchased a 12th gen part like the core i7 12700k, a CPU we really liked and did recommend, You've really got nowhere to go from here. The 14900K is barely any faster, It is a very minor upgrade at best, For what is a rather substantial financial investment."

Yeah, you're right @Strawman very upgradable intel platform you've chosen...

 

[Strawman]

It's like you don't read reviews or look at charts (and understand them).

There are no performance improvements between the 12th, 13th and 14th gen Intel CPU's, just more power usage to push clocks slightly higher.

I don't need to look at reviews, I have all the CPUs in question. You are just WRONG. My 14900k at the same power as the 12900k is around 40% faster. I put both to 125w, 12900k = 23.5k in CBR23, the 14900k scores 33k.

So no, they use less power and push higher clocks, stop being silly.

That's an issue that can be fixed by the end user though, it's really not the end of the world, with Intel, you are at the mercy of "Intel APO" which only supports the 14th gen and only works in two games.

With the 7950X3D, you can either disable the non X3D CCD or you can park the cores manually, with Intel, you can't do anything, just pray they might open up support to 12th and 13th gen? Then pray they add more games to APO?

What kind of nonsense is that again? Why are you people making stuff up? What stops you from parking the cores manually or disabling whatever you think is causing issues on the Intel CPU? WTF are you amd fans smoking? Damn, I kid you not, too much fanboyism has melted your brain to the point you can't think straight anymore. Dude, it's embarrassing

"What could be a big problem for Intel is there lack of platform commitment. In-fact this is likely been a real problem for some years now, resulting in a loss of sales. For example, had you purchased a 12th gen part like the core i7 12700k, a CPU we really liked and did recommend, You've really got nowhere to go from here. The 14900K is barely any faster, It is a very minor upgrade at best, For what is a rather substantial financial investment."

Yeah, you're right @Strawman very upgradable intel platform you've chosen...

If steve said the 14900k is barely any faster, he is just plainly wrong, lol. The 14900k is literally almost twice as fast in MT workloads and 20-25% faster in games.

Just checked TPUPs review, in games the 14900k is 21% faster than the 12700k and even limited to 200w it's around 70% faster in MT workloads. Yeah, barely any difference

 

[Burty117]

I don't need to look at reviews, I have all the CPUs in question. You are just WRONG. My 14900k at the same power as the 12900k is around 40% faster. I put both to 125w, 12900k = 23.5k in CBR23, the 14900k scores 33k.

So no, they use less power and push higher clocks, stop being silly.

That's not what any review says. So I guess you're right, I should take your word for it, we'll ignore the professionals...

What kind of nonsense is that again? Why are you people making stuff up? What stops you from parking the cores manually or disabling whatever you think is causing issues on the Intel CPU?

Intel are still only 8 core CPU's. Yes you can disable E cores, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't do anything, sometimes it makes things worse, at least with the 7950X3D, there's no ambiguity, if a particular game hasn't loaded itself onto the X3D chip, you can force it. Have you not even looked into APO yet?

WTF are you amd fans smoking? Damn, I kid you not, too much fanboyism has melted your brain to the point you can't think straight anymore. Dude, it's embarrassing

No fanboy here, I've owned WAY more Intel systems than I have AMD, hell this is my first AMD system for 12? Maybe even 14 years, I've got the capacity to read reviews though, so I'm aware at the time of buying or building a PC, what are the better components to buy.

If steve said the 14900k is barely any faster, he is just plainly wrong, lol.

Once again, you're right, professionals that do this for a living and have done for a long time, obviously very wrong...

Just checked TPUPs review, in games the 14900k is 21% faster than the 12700k and even limited to 200w it's around 70% faster in MT workloads. Yeah, barely any difference

Not only are you cherry picking, even TPUP admits the AMD CPU's are better for gaming as a whole.

At the end of the day, literally every reviewer out there panned the 14900K for being a 13900K with a slight clock bump, and most reviewers disliked the 13900K for not bringing much over the 12900K.

I started this thread to ask you why you thought getting the Intel system meant "it's upgradable" when Intel famously do not support their sockets for very long.
It is quite clear you're incapable of explaining why, You ignore all reviews unless you can cherry pick something specific, you've been unable to explain why the extra MT performance matters to you when it's not affecting gaming performance and to top it off, once you're unable to explain anything, you just go for the "your a fanboy" argument rather than proving anything.

How about this, since you apparently own all three CPU's, grab a 4090 (shouldn't be a problem for a chap like yourself), lets run through some games and measure the performance and prove this "40%" or "21%" or "70%" faster you claim that no other reviewer has yet been able to prove?

 

[Strawman]

That's not what any review says. So I guess you're right, I should take your word for it, we'll ignore the professionals...

Every single review on the planet has the 14900k way faster than the 12700k or the 12900k. What the heck are you talking about?

Intel are still only 8 core CPU's. Yes you can disable E cores, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't do anything, sometimes it makes things worse, at least with the 7950X3D, there's no ambiguity, if a particular game hasn't loaded itself onto the X3D chip, you can force it. Have you not even looked into APO yet?

Why would you ever disable ecores? WTF are you talking about, lol. Do you even have a point?

Not only are you cherry picking, even TPUP admits the AMD CPU's are better for gaming as a whole.

I don't care what they think is the better CPU. You said there is no performance difference between a 12700k and a 14900k which is just WRONG.

I started this thread to ask you why you thought getting the Intel system meant "it's upgradable" when Intel famously do not support their sockets for very long.
It is quite clear you're incapable of explaining why, You ignore all reviews unless you can cherry pick something specific, you've been unable to explain why the extra MT performance matters to you when it's not affecting gaming performance and to top it off, once you're unable to explain anything, you just go for the "your a fanboy" argument rather than proving anything.

And I explained it very clearly, because the 14900k is approaching twice the performance in MT and 20-25% in gaming

How about this, since you apparently own all three CPU's, grab a 4090 (shouldn't be a problem for a chap like yourself), lets run through some games and measure the performance and prove this "40%" or "21%" or "70%" faster you claim that no other reviewer has yet been able to prove?

I have a 4090 and I have done just that. The 14900k is around 20% faster than the 12900k in games and 40-50% faster in MT performance. That's when both are restricted to the same wattage.

You keep repeating that "no other review has done this" but you are again lying. Every single review has shown 20% difference in gaming and 70%+ difference MT performance. Why are you lying? I already gave you the TPUP review, those numbers are taken from them. Dude....

 

[Khamul]

That's not what any review says. So I guess you're right, I should take your word for it, we'll ignore the professionals...

Intel are still only 8 core CPU's. Yes you can disable E cores, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't do anything, sometimes it makes things worse, at least with the 7950X3D, there's no ambiguity, if a particular game hasn't loaded itself onto the X3D chip, you can force it. Have you not even looked into APO yet?

No fanboy here, I've owned WAY more Intel systems than I have AMD, hell this is my first AMD system for 12? Maybe even 14 years, I've got the capacity to read reviews though, so I'm aware at the time of buying or building a PC, what are the better components to buy.

Once again, you're right, professionals that do this for a living and have done for a long time, obviously very wrong...

Not only are you cherry picking, even TPUP admits the AMD CPU's are better for gaming as a whole.

At the end of the day, literally every reviewer out there panned the 14900K for being a 13900K with a slight clock bump, and most reviewers disliked the 13900K for not bringing much over the 12900K.

I started this thread to ask you why you thought getting the Intel system meant "it's upgradable" when Intel famously do not support their sockets for very long.
It is quite clear you're incapable of explaining why, You ignore all reviews unless you can cherry pick something specific, you've been unable to explain why the extra MT performance matters to you when it's not affecting gaming performance and to top it off, once you're unable to explain anything, you just go for the "your a fanboy" argument rather than proving anything.

How about this, since you apparently own all three CPU's, grab a 4090 (shouldn't be a problem for a chap like yourself), lets run through some games and measure the performance and prove this "40%" or "21%" or "70%" faster you claim that no other reviewer has yet been able to prove?

You're having fun with Intel trolls and shills. Me having fun with them will result me in getting my comments deleted and/or banned. These so-called "tech" sites/forums like TechPowerUp, Tomshardware and Reddit promotes bias and unfair competition and therefore are bought off by certain companies.