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What to think about Apple

  1. I can't figure out what I should think about Apple. They used to be the uncontested best but now I'm constantly dissatisfied with the Apple products I try out. Still, everyone around me and their mother want the latest Apple products like there's nothing else out there. To help me decide if buying Apple products was really that bad I made the following list of the Pro's and Con's of committing to Apple:

    Apple Pros:

    1. Most apps in app store on mobile devices (could be temporary)
    2. Popular
    3. Still new enough not to have as many possible viruses/malware/hacks as windows products (definitely temporary, but will take a long time)
    4. Completely revolutionized the industry
    5. Pushed Microsoft to make better products at lower prices
    6. Have a lot of shortcuts and gesture commands
    7. Usually make awesome commercials (not the ones with the kid in the blue shirt)

    Apple Cons:

    1. Requires iTunes (bloatware)
    2. Won't usb charge on non-Apple products (iPad 2)
    3. Mystery restrictions passcode (I only have used one 4 digit passcode my entire life, but it didn't work. They don't let you recover it so I have to download iTunes (which I don't want) and factory reset it) <--- May or may not be their fault, but its a pain nonetheless
    4. Glitchy after a while (iPad 2)
    5. Uber expensive for comparible hardware (Macs)
    6. Patent everything to eliminate competition
    7. Tight restrictions on apps in app store (with so many app developers this may be a good thing too)
    8. Wouldn't let Google include software to make chrome the fastest browser on iOS devices
    9. Generally expensive apps (compared to android)
    10. Less app depth than android (Twitter apps and facebook apps)
    11. Make it reallly difficult to use an Apple product with anything not Apple (ties in with no usp charging on non-Apple products)
    12. Jailbroken apps are a joke compared to rooted apps (Or it could be the poor organization of the cydia store, can't really tell)
    13. Updates regularly counteract jailbreaks
    14. Lost Jobs's brains and balls
    15. Less freedom on iOS than Android (no tethering, no flashing custom ROMs, less app depth)

    As you can probably tell I usually run into problems every time I use an Apple device. From my list I'm leaning towards quitting all Apple products, but I'm probably pretty biased by now. That's why I'm interested in hearing what you guys think. Did I get something about Apple wrong? Did I miss something? Why do/don't you use Apple products?

    P.S. - If you say "because Apple makes all the best stuff" I'm going to reach through your computer screen and punch you in the balls (fair warning).
     
  2. Zen

    Zen TechSpot Paladin Posts: 938   +44

    Well now, that's going a little bit strong here don't you think! One thing your going to have to try and understand and or learn, is that when one throws this type of post into the void, it opens itself up to be answered every way imaginable, including from Apple fanboys and fangirls that will throw out a lot of "it's the best" statements!

    I don't quite know how one of my friends did it, but she is a current iPad 2 owner and I swore I saw her iPad plugged into her Dell laptop computer charging. I'll have to ask her next time I run into her if indeed the unit was charging or doing something else.
     
  3. Leeky

    Leeky TS Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +98

    I have the sneaky feeling this thread is going to get personal very quickly. So Fair warning ReederOnTheRun: If you get personal to those responding in this thread I'll be removing it. ;) We welcome an intelligent debate on the matter, but I'll not hesitate to remove any posts that break our community guidelines.

    Here is my thoughts:

    1. Apple has a very mature ecosystem. Its certainly much more consistent than Google's Android. However, I dislike the obsessive pairing with iTunes and the constant password reminders when using iPhone devices. Ironically I think the only ecosystem close to iOS is Windows Phone. Its very different for a reason (think lawsuits!), but refreshingly so, and is my preferred mobile OS. For completeness however, I'm currently using a Samsung Galaxy S3 running Android ICS, until Windows 8 Lumia smartphones arrive later in the year.

    2. There is no doubt that Apple has revolutionised the industry. It constantly frustrates me that OEMs are quite content to play "catch up" with the company. Case and point: Everyone waited for Apple to release the MBA before thinking ultrabooks were a good idea. Example 2, the rMBP's stonking huge resolution display -- and not one single OEM beating them to it.

    3. I totally dislike Apple's ethics with a passion. Apple devices sell because they are exceptionally well engineered and designed to work perfectly for their niche. Others fail because they compromise on those two things, or release something sub-par in a bid to "fool" the less informed. Apple's love for the court and countless lawsuits are pathetic.

    4. Apple's product mark-up is ridiculous at best, and downright insulting at worse. They seriously don;'t need to be that expensive, which is perfectly well illustrated by the fact it has more money than the government of its own country, the USA.

    5. Absolutely none of my ill-feeling towards the cost or ethics of the company will change the fact I think their products are considerably better than the competition. As a tech enthusiast I purchase a product based on its suitability, fully understanding that sometimes you pay a premium for a quality product. I'm happy with that, and I can sleep at night. lol.

    6. I wish the computer industry would get its act together. Stop trying (and failing!) to copy Apple. Look at the way they do things, learn from it and god damn innovate!! How good would it be if Dell, Lenovo, HP or the likes actually released industry changing products for consumers? Oh wait, they're too busy supposedly giving us what we wanted in Apple's previous product cycle!

    7. And one final note to Apple (if your reading this so far): Release a proper full refresh update to the sodding Mac Pro already!!

    8. Reliability: In my experience Apple devices are considerably more reliable than their counterparts. Windows 7 brought the OS platform closer to Mac's OS X, but in my mind its still more reliable. As far as I can recall I've never had a single Apple device die on me. The same cannot be said for stuff purchased from other OEMs -- where lasting slightly past its warranty seems an acceptable norm.
     
  4. ReederOnTheRun

    ReederOnTheRun TS Booster Topic Starter Posts: 310   +62

    To Zen:

    True, I was obviously kidding, but the message I wanted across is that I want real things to think about. Technical facts and personal experiences are all good, but just saying Apple is the best because it is Apple is both annoying and frankly an *****ic reason to buy Apple products. People can post that stuff, but they should know it's a very unimpressive case for Apple.

    And that'd be really cool if it did. I've tried googling it but I didn't find anything.

    To Leeky:

    Lol don't worry it won't get personal. If I think a post is stupid I'll ignore it, not attack it. Although I do like to play devil's advocate to test a questionable idea.

    1. True, the ecosystem is nice if you get into a certain brand, but I like to switch brands a lot depending on who has the best product when I want to buy. It seems to be a problem though when the products in a certain brand's ecosystem are all dependent on each other.

    2. True, I like that about Apple.

    3. Again, I agree.

    4. Like Burton or NorthFace, I think most people are buying it for the apple logo on the back. If I've learned anything from buying Burton and NorthFace products its that I could probably get better quality from less know sources for less money.

    5. I disagree, at least where smart phones and laptops are concerned. I think iPhones are more for people who already have Apple products and don't really care about geeky stuff like ROM flashing or rooting and stuff. As for computers, it just seems way cheaper to go with an awesome windows laptop than a MBA or MBP. I mean, besides the OS X is there really anything special about them? I know they aren't blowing away the competition. I've seen the benchmark tests, and there are better windows laptops at better prices. For tablets I love the iPad 2 but its so terrible to write with. I'm wondering if this Galaxy Note 10.1 (I think) is better. It seems more geared towards writing.

    6. True, I don't like the idea of carbon copies but there is a place for copying in a competitive market. America has copied other countries to become number one, and a long time ago Apple itself copied and improved on other products to establish themselves. If the people obviously want something, take that idea and build on it. I don't blame Apple for doing it earlier in the game, and I don't blame Samsung for doing it now.

    7. I'm all for something new, but if it ain't broke, why fix it?

    8. I've never actually had anything die on me before, but I have had serious glitchiness. My old HP Pavilion laptop was bad, my droid incredible got bad if I didn't factory restore it, and now my iPad 2 is glitching a lot.

    P.S. - On an unrelated note, any idea why NorthFace is displayed as ********** if there's a space in between them?
     
  5. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Posts: 5,305   +238

    After reading this, I'm re-thinking my idea of hoping to get an Apple next month.
    Is it still true that instead of doing what MS does "Patch Tuesday", Apple updates the entire OS?
    I know Apple is on just about every TV program I watch. RTM amongst some others.
    I just might go to a local Apple store to see if I can check one out.In store,of course. Thanks for the thread.
     
  6. Rage_3K_Moiz

    Rage_3K_Moiz Sith Lord Posts: 7,286   +24

    I'd agree with everything you said.

    A pro to consider is the screens and keyboards on the Apple laptops: I've yet to see laptops with such great screens as those on the Macbooks. They really are fantastic. And the keyboards are extremely comfy to type on, IMHO.

    A con I'd consider (which very well might be tied into ethics), is how Apple only requires a billing address and the last four digits of your credit card to reset your password for access into your iCloud (and ultimately, AppleID) account. This means anyone who has access to this information (which can be obtained via some basic social engineering and guesswork) can basically access your data in the cloud, remotely wipe your devices and more.
     
  7. ReederOnTheRun

    ReederOnTheRun TS Booster Topic Starter Posts: 310   +62

    At learninmypc

    No problem!

    At Rage_3K_Moiz

    Yeah I've heard a lot of good things about the screens and keyboards. The screens especially. I think they manage to do it without killing the battery, dont they? I remember the battery like being about 7ish hours for the MBA.

    And yeah, have they fixed that issue yet? I know they also had a security issue with texts too but all they said was to use the imessage app instead
     
  8. Leeky

    Leeky TS Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +98

    Apple products are designed to work well with each other, but they still work with the more popular Windows-based computers. I'm looking to replace my laptop and my desktop with Apple's, but I certainly won't be getting a iPhone. It'll make no difference doing that, it'll be fine.

    I'm sure some people might do that, but most people buy into Apple for other reasons. The UI experience is far greater and more consistent among its product portfolio than it is with other OEMs. I don't buy Apple for its logo, the price, or the company's ethics -- I buy them because they are considerably better overall when compared to alternative devices.

    It has nothing to do with that at all. The mobile platform is the most popular for several different reasons, and its very unlikely they're to do with the ones you suggested. Sure, some will have purchased them because they want to buy into the whole Apple ecosystem, but the majority of iPhone owner's don't have OS X computers and certainly aren't interested in moving from Windows.

    The vast majority of owners of other smartphones don't root them either. I've owned loads of Android ones and countless others and I've never once seen the need to do it. The reality is most owners never even bother, or aren't even aware that you can.

    I think its all relative tbh. There are pros and cons to both OS X and Windows platforms. Unix-like OS' don't need the same level of resources that Windows traditionally requires, and Apple constantly refreshes products to keep them up to date -- The exception being the Mac Pro which hasn't had a proper update in a couple of years now.

    You might be able to get a Windows product with the same specification and cost as a MBA or MBP, but it won't have a screen as good as the Apple, or the keyboard, and the whole design won't be as nice overall. They cater for different people really, but I much prefer Apple to Windows-based alternatives.

    Ask RIM how that worked out for them -- They took that attitude and are now struggling at the bottom of the smartphone market. Those that don't constantly innovate and refresh get overrun by those that do.

    No idea. lol.

    Totally agree with you there.

    Apple shuttered that as it went to press, as I noted in the article I wrote about it at the time.
     
  9. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,446   +324

    What a leading question to post to this site - - hope you enjoy the PC bias.
     
  10. ReederOnTheRun

    ReederOnTheRun TS Booster Topic Starter Posts: 310   +62



    True, they do make it possible. For most people itunes works fine, but you still must rely on itunes. I've looked around and except for some awkward workarounds from jailbreak apps, there is no way to simply connect an apple device and use it. This creates problems for a lot of potential apple customers because its slower than just treating it like an external hard drive (like androids do) and you lose a lot of functionality if itunes is not connected to the internet (recent example: I couldn't even restore my ipad yesterday because I wasn't connected to the internet).


    I'm not sure what other reasons you are referring to, but I talk to a lot of people (On a college campus so macs and iphones are pretty much everywhere) and most responses are either: "because it's the fastest" or "because it's from apple". The fastest, while not true, is still a solid reason. It is certainly fast enough to accommodate most people (me included). Because it is from apple though is a very popular and very bad reason to pay that much money.

    What do you mean by the UI experience?

    That might not be as true as you think, at least with college students. On campus I'd estimate at least 60-65% of the student population with a laptop uses a mac. It's very common, and I can't figure out why. They say it's better than normal laptops but nobody knows exactly why. Sure its has great hardware, but you can still get that or better with a windows computer at the same price. I can't figure out why its so popular other than it has a good display, it works well with apple devices, and it has an apple logo on it. Although if it were equivalent in every other area as a similarly priced windows laptop, that might be a good buy, but it isn't. It's battery life generally isn't as good, a windows laptop has better hardware at those prices, and a lot of them even require a weird adapter to use something as common as an hdmi. While I think about switching to a mac sometimes, since everybody wants me to, I only seem to come up with reasons not to.

    True, not everyone who buys the android does geeky things with it. I actually haven't even rooted my Galaxy for fear of messing it up, and they offer non-rooted tethers anyways. You'd think people would at least know about it though. I mean if they are trying to decide which phone to get, they would easily learn all about those differences with a google search.

    So you think people buy apple laptops for aesthetics?

    I was actually thinking about that early. Who's to say with all of these patents flying around we might one day get to a point where only one company can build on a product. Then there'd be no pressure and they could do whatever they wanted (pretty much like windows used to do, but with patents now). It sounds ridiculous but its not far off of what is happening with the cell phones. Some of apple's patents include small rectangular devices, big screens, round corners, and colorful icons. It'd be hard to develop a smartphone without those. Food for thought.

    As long as the bias is supported with actual reasons, then I don't consider it a bad thing.
     
  11. Leeky

    Leeky TS Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +98

    I hear you there. That's one of the major reasons I won't own an iPhone. Though for the sake of clarity, Windows Phone isn't much better. For me the saving grace is not having to forcibly use an "iTunes-like" app with continious password entering to get anywhere.

    I would imagine (without in-depth searching) that the lack of internet connection meant Apple was unable to download the correct software version to re-install, which is why it didn't work.

    I agree, the "because its Apple" response is not a justified response. The fastest comment has some basis though. The latest SSD packed MB's are lightning quick.

    Its the user interface experience, e.g. the desktop, what you see, how easy and logical the OS' general operation is. The better the UI experience the easier it is to use.

    There any many reasons why someone would consider an Apple. Lets not forget the brutally simple truth here: You don't have to use a justified reason to own one. The fact they're so popular should in itself tell you something. While some people will remain loyal to Apple products, I would imagine the "logo" is one small aspect out of many that make it the ideal choice.

    Why? The average person has absolutely no need for it, and is oblivious to the possibility of doing it. The same can be said with computers. How many "average" consumers walk into PC World, Best Buy or whatever and purchase a laptop not even knowing Apple exists, or that they could use something other than Windows?

    I work on computers a lot, and the average customer base I deal with think I'm crazy when I explain they could purchase an Apple computer and use OSX. They've got no idea that the operating system is software -- they most think its some bit of hardware included with the computer they've purchased and every computer on the planet uses it as well.

    Apple doesn't enjoy quite the same market adoption in the UK however, so most computer users use Windows -- so I imagine that's different to the American public who I'd imagine are more used to, and understand what Apple sell.


    Aye, why not? Its one of many things I prefer. The display for one, the keyboard, the longer battery life, the fantastic and over-engineered design. The solid hardware, and industrial like reliability. That's without even considering the considerably more secure OS and UI experience. I've never liked the prices though, and as I've already said, I don't agree with the company's ethics, but they do make fantastic computers and that's why I prefer them to Windows-based equivalents.
     
     
  12. ReederOnTheRun

    ReederOnTheRun TS Booster Topic Starter Posts: 310   +62

    Yeah, I was hoping they'd let me restore it and just update it when I got my wireless internet back.

    Yeah, the next laptop I get is going to have one. I will eventually buy one for the desktop too.

    True, I like the general layout and everything, but it's hard to get used to after using windows all the time. I think I'd have to use it more to get a concrete feel for ease of everyday use.

    That's the picture I'm getting. Whether for the display, build, or social status - looks are a definite priority for Apple products. Personally I'd prefer a lower price with a solid laptop nobody would spend time admiring, but then again, that desire for something sexy is there.

    Actually just about everyone who sees me tethering asks me what app it is and how they can get it (no surprise really, who doesn't want free internet?). Custom ROMs too but to a lesser extent. Then there are things like titanium backup that get mixed interest. The need is there, users just don't know because iphone doesn't have it. The same thing happened with apple's dictation program. That technology has been around for a long time, but nobody knew about it until apple got all the publicity for it. Now all of a sudden speech recognition is huge.

    As for computers, I don't know the statistics, but I do know that the employees at places like Best Buy don't hesitate to point out those differences. I would be deeply disturbed if 50% of the people in this country buying computers didn't know that there is anything besides windows.

    Well consider the population you are working with. Most people would easily solve common computer problems or figure out what to buy with a few google searches or asking on a forum. Its the minority that doesn't know anything about computers that tends to blow up tech supports' phones.

    Yeah, I like the aesthetics and possibly the UI, but until I can get the same quality hardware for the similarly priced windows laptops I don't think I'd go for a MB. I'm not a photographer or video editor so all the focus on making things look pretty isn't much of a reason for me to drop that kind of cash. As for desktops, with way better gaming and hardware customization, I don't think I'll be leaving the traditional windows OS anytime soon.

    Although for the laptop I wouldn't mind linux if I had the time to get into it. Totally free OS, almost no viruses, and unlimited customization is tough to beat if you have the know-how.
     
  13. hellokitty[hk]

    hellokitty[hk] Hello, nice to meet you! Posts: 4,370   +125

    I'll be frank and simply say that I don't like having to use all of Apple's software and other little stuff. So to keep it short, I don't like apple products much, and they're sometimes so expensive.
    They look nice though.
    Bottom line is that I haven't liked my experiences with apple.
     
  14. ReederOnTheRun

    ReederOnTheRun TS Booster Topic Starter Posts: 310   +62

    So you tried it and just didn't like the UI?
     
  15. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Posts: 5,305   +238

    Its only a matter of time till linux & Apple get nasties just like MS. IMHO:)
     
    ReederOnTheRun likes this.
  16. Zoltan Head

    Zoltan Head TS Enthusiast Posts: 268   +27

    I understand that Apple already does! :(
     
  17. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Posts: 5,305   +238

    Yep:)
     
  18. ANTIjailbreak

    ANTIjailbreak TS Rookie Posts: 22

    Yeah the reason I hate apple is well I dont think I can even do the simple things like bluetooth songs from my nokia to a iphone cause it has to be iphone to iphone which I hate. I dont know if its true if u can bluetooth songs from other phones too iphones. there also has been a few occasions where I wanted to do something on a iphone and the responce has been you cant its a iphone.
     
  19. ReederOnTheRun

    ReederOnTheRun TS Booster Topic Starter Posts: 310   +62

    That is true, they are VERY particular about what you can do with their products.
     
  20. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Posts: 5,305   +238

  21. Zoltan Head

    Zoltan Head TS Enthusiast Posts: 268   +27

    Interesting.
    This objection to a simple graphic design, based on an everyday thing is silly - it's like saying (for instance) that other people shouldn't use a common shape, say a rectangle with the corners rounded off...
     
  22. learninmypc

    learninmypc TS Evangelist Posts: 5,305   +238

    Zoltan Head, very true.
     
  23. hellokitty[hk]

    hellokitty[hk] Hello, nice to meet you! Posts: 4,370   +125

    My bad I mean that I don't like being restricted the way apple only allows people to use their stuff. It's true that I also don't like the UI a lot and would prefer windows. Some of their products are also very expensive.
    I think they usually look nice aesthetically though.
     
  24. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,091   +1,519

    How about this one, "People shouldn't eat apples because it represents eating the forbidden fruit."?

    If Russians eat apples, they shouldn't have anything to say about this logo as it would make them hypocrites.
     
  25. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 10,814   +921

    Actually, if you need to be told what to think, you're an ideal candidate for one of everything Apple makes.

    Pity Steve Jobs isn't still with us. He'd straighten you out......:cool:

    This is more priceless than anything any ad writer could come up with for a Mastercard commercial........
    "Apple Logo 'Sacrilegious', Church Group Says"

    Wow, that's really strict, bordering on puritanical..!

    My church group told be masturbation was sacrilegious. I said, "OK then, I won't do it in church anymore.....:eek:
     


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