Windows 8 goes gold, will hit MSDN and TechNet on August 15

Again, no. That's like saying the Start menu is the "desktop" simply because it "sets the tone" of the rest of UI elements of the desktop.

The Start Screen is a program launcher based on the Metro interface. Just like the Start menu is a program launcher based on the, ahem, "legacy" interface. Although you natively boot into it, you hardly ever see it or use it, especially if you pin programs to the taskbar.

Also, there are several Metro elements in the desktop that are visible without ever going to the Start Screen, so I don't buy "Metro" itself is the problem, as Metro apps work perfectly with Mouse/Keyboard. Like I said, people don't have a problem with the actual design language or Metro apps, they seem rather indifferent on that aspect; the problem is the Start Screen (and I absolutely get it). However, you never wondered why people don't (outspokenly) hate the charms bar, or the multitasking pane, or the retarded hot corners, or how when you click on the Network icon on the taskbar this unnecessary black "Metro" bar pops out, etc.? I sincerely hate them, but only because I don't mind the Start Screen. Do I hate Metro? No. Just those elements.

So the problem is not the "UI", but one essential element based off of it

What exactly do you think UI stands for? The Start Menu is the interface in which users interface with the OS. Its not the complete interface but it is the front end. Change the Start Menu to Metro doesn't mean the whole UI was replaced just the front end which sets the tone for user experience.

a) Why did you post that was though it's some brand new original thought, when people have been spouting this **** incessantly for the last two years or something now.

b) It's a complete pile of ****.

XP was awful when it was released, and only became half decent after SP2, the fact Longhorn got delayed for so long that people were using XP on hardware far in excess of what it required also aided in the illusision it was somehow superior to Vista.

Vista was better than XP by far, especially if you compare them both them under similar circumstances rather than a near decade old XP with three service patches and hardware more powerful than what existed back when it was released, and a brand new Vista. When XP was released it had all the exact same issues like driver problems, lack of backward compatibility, sluggish performance, etc.that Vista did when it was released, except even worse. Maybe if forum *****s didn't have the memory capability of goldfish they would be able to realise this.

Windows 7 is just a fine tuned Windows Vista.

Windows 8 is just a fine tuned Windows 7 with a new UI that everyone is jumping on the hate bandwagon about.

Why do you even care so much about the Start Menu in this day and age anyway? Barely anyone uses it (Protip: this isn't my opinion, it's an actual fact supported by actual Microsoft telemetrics). Power users generally just hit the windows key and start typing the name of the program they want until it appears then hit enter, more novice users have their primary programs pinned. Only people's grandmothers still laboriously go rooting through the "All Programs" menu and clicking on nested folders to find a program icon.

I never said I cared about the Start Menu. I will say I care even less for Metro.

As far as pressing start and typing the name of the application I want to use, this is something I do very rarely. I pin my most used applications to the start bar and then pin my other applications to the start menu. I have no need in searching through the All Application folder, once I have everything pinned. As far as Metro is concerned, I have absolutely no desire in my PC looking similar to a checker board at anytime.

The metro stuff occupies the ENTIRE screen, so, yes, it can be called UI, and, some people who aren't so good at computers aren't even able to get off it and get back to the desktop. Yes, it's true.

And, about the second phrase, yes, Windows 7 was THAT much better. Vista was almost unusable before service pack 1, because it was so bloated and slow and Windows 7 corrected all that and had a much better kernel, and yes it also had a BETTER appearance (which windows 8 failed to deliver).

I dunno if you work for M$, but whether Windows 8 is an improvement from 7 (or even XP) is much more debatable than comparing 7 to Vista. If you doubt it, just take a look around the internet forums around the world.

So... "interface in which users interface with the OS"? Lol Do <I>you</I> know what UI stands for?

The UI is an encompassing (<- key word here) abstract framework of interaction with computer systems and it's usually compromised of many different elements. Singling out one element, and calling it the user interface is wrong. The Start Screen is not <I>the</I> user interface, it's an element of it. Metro is the user interface. Can't really make it any more clearer than that.

I see you haven't refuted my point, and now we've gone from why people hate the Start Screen to semantics...

No it can't. Read previous paragraph.

And no, Windows 7 wasn't that much better for it to be worth $120, especially when taking into account that the incremental difference between 7 & 8 is equal (if not larger) as that of Vista & 7, while still being 80% cheaper than Windows 7 at launch. Sorry but your argument is flawed.

And no, I don't work for Microsoft. Why suggest that, because I'm objective? Should I imply since you don't like Windows 8 that you <I>must</I> work for Apple too? Please. Truth is, Vista is a better OS than XP. Everyone agrees it had very, very rough launch, but those who <I>truly</I> know, know it's a superior OS to XP.

"But oh no, that can't be true, it's Vista!" Yeah, well, reputation is a *****. And just like rumors, bad rep spreads pretty quickly.

People might stick to XP as a way to show off how much an "old-school" power user they are (whatever that means). Some hated Vista because of it's unnecessary animations, general lack of UI polish, or maybe the never sticked with it long enough to see SP1. The same applies to 7, some don't like the (better) use of Aero, lack of UI customization when compared to XP, others still think it's Vista with a different taskbar, etc.

Some people won't get Windows 8 on the desktop because of the Start Screen, but you'd be surprised to know many of the <I>will</I> get a Windows RT tablet. Truth is, there are millions of people out there, and whatever you see, read, or hear, is not quantitatively indicative of the 1+ billion computers powered by Windows.

Bingo!

I don't think I've ever seen anyone around here, since the time I got here to now, hit the nail on the head and with one sentence tell so much truth about the misconceptions, misgivings and blatant hate mongering of Windows Vista. Frankly, I have loved Vista since it launched! Granted, before service pack #1 it was a tab bit rough going, but after service pack #1 things stabilized, got more rock solid, and things got faster! At present I am a loyal and die hard Windows Vista Ultimate (64-bit) user and I can vouch that things with Vista get even better after service pack #2, mine if fully loaded, 100% of the certified updates are in here and since the last update went in, up until now, the thing has never let me down, not one bit!

And this whole argument or at best, heated conversation in regards to which O.S. is better, personally speaking......"who really cares"? Just because Microsoft is about to launch another operating system, it doesn't mean everyone has to make the switch! There are still plenty of good options out there, as far as operating systems. You still have Windows XP (Home) and (Pro), we still have Windows Vista (Home) and (Pro-32) and (Pro-64), We of course have Windows 7 in all of it's elegant flavors, people can also choose a non Microsoft operating systems like Linux in all of it's various distro's! And for some, if switching to Linux isn't good enough, people can choose to buy an Apple machine and use OSX.

We have options right now, some good, some great, some "so so" but we have options right now, we should just be thankful for that!

*** Zen hugs his copy of Windows Vista Ultimate (64-bit) and is thankful that he bought the 15 year product support licence! ***

I can't stand Windows 8. I don't like the metro interface and didn't like the fact that it's smartscreen came up with a warning when I went to install a free game I created and treated it like it would be dangerous to install it. There was one button, OK, you click it and it aborts installation. You have to click on some tiny text etc... to force it to install. The average person might be scared off by this dire warning about a potential disaster that was narrowly averted thanks to Microsoft. Well, they can shove Windows 8 where the sun don't shine, $40 is too much to pay for garbage.

Windows 8 = the modern version of Windows Vista. They're again ignoring what people like in favour of what they wish to push on us and they will find out... again... that they need to pay attention to what the people, who are buying your software want. Don't hand me a turd and tell me it's chocolate.

Passing on Win8 for now, as I did when Win 7 first came out. That time, it was because my hardware wasn't "ready for prime time", so I waited until I built a new system that could handle it. This time, it is for a few reasons. One, I don't have a touch screen. Two, for what I have played with, I can't see the "need" for win8. 7 Still is plenty fast, has the features I need. So, I'll hold off for now.
Since win7 is rtm, and will go to developers/OEMs on the 15th, you can bet it will show up on the torrent sites about a week before that LOL.

For the record I never said Metro wasn't Windows 8 UI element to replace the Start Menu of Windows 7. Therefore I don't understand why you are pushing that detail. I am suggesting its the element that is seen most, so therefore the most important element of the UI from a users perspective.

We seem to be saying the same thing, so I'm just gonna drop out now before I twist and tangle my words even further.

I am not going to rehash what has already been said, but for those complaining about Metro it is fairly clear you have not even used Win8. Stop looking stupid to everyone.

I use my Win8 laptop daily and I never see Metro unless I specifically choose to see it (which is rare). If you don't know how this could be then you clearly have not used Win8. I mean seriously.

If you are dead set on having a start button (I like it just for nostalgia sake) then install Classic Shell and be happy (it's free and awesome).

Now everyone shutup on the Win8 hate.

So, you're saying we should spend money on a new OS and then install programs on it to make it look like the old one.

HOW STUPID IS THAT?

^ If you think the kernel of win8 is THAT much better....


I find it amusing how people are blinded by new stuff. The lack of polish of Win 8 is so visible that even major software makers are stating it publicly.

It's not that I don't like Windows. I do. In my opinion, Windows 7 x64 is the best desktop OS ever. But Win 8 is worse. Much worse. Lack of start menu and intrusive Metro interface is something I can't swallow. I can do much more in less time with windows 7 just because it's EASIER to use. Can that be acceptable on a "new" OS? Things should improve, not the other way around!

So by your logic we should never install anything on an OS because how stupid would it be to make an OS do what we want it to do. I MEAN THAT IS STUPID!

Thanks, that is the funniest **** I have read all day long.

I see. You like spending mommy's money... LOL

You said the Start Screen is Windows 8's UI simply becuase it's the frontend. My comment is trying to explain to you, that the Start Screen is simply an element of the Metro UI, and that people don't have a problem so much with Metro, as they have with Start Screen. I know what you meant to say, I just wanted to point out when you say UI we are talking about the big picture, including everything that's "Metro-fied" but it's <I>not</I> the Start Screen. It turns out people don't seem to have a problem with everything else that's been "Metro-fied", it's just the Start Screen, which is important to then single it out as an UI element. That's what I said in my comments.

What software makers have publicly stated Windows 8 lacks polish? There's no lack of polish, because if there was, you'd be implying Windows 7 lacks polish. Because, you know, Windows 8 looks <I>exactly</I> like Windows 7. But wait! It has the Start Screen...

Well, that's weird. It is a widely known fact, Windows 8 is architecturally faster in literally everything than Windows 7. But wait! It has the Start Screen...

See the trend here?

sapo joe, it is fairly evident you have no clue what you're talking about. You sound like a consumer that thinks of himself as a "power user." You don't know or care to know why Windows 8 is as much of an upgrade as 7 was to Vista (while still being 80% cheaper than 7) because all you see is the Start Screen. Just like when people were fed up with Vista, as soon as they read about the new, "all-glass" taskbar, they suddenly fell in love without even knowing what exactly made 7 so much better than Vista.

You don't have to like Windows 8, I'm not here to convince you, but when you say Windows 8 is worse, lacks polish, etc. you should be referring to the whole OS, not simply the Start Screen. Which is, apparently, your biggest problem as per the bold text above.

No. I won't. Windows 8 is a bad operating system and to sit here and say nothing would be wrong. People need to be warned about what they are buying and all the flaws it has so they can make an informed decision. As a developer I want the freedom to distribute my software any way I see fit without Micro$oft treating it like a virus if it isn't pre-approved by them. That's my main beef. I think the Metro interface is horrible as well, the Start Menu makes more sense and is easier to navigate. This looks like they made something new to appeal to the cell phone junkies and just so they could say "look, we made something new!!!".

Then get your app approved! I do not want to install your app unless I know it's clean, and I'll be damned if I take your word for it. So quit your bitching, and get with the program.