It looks like Java is next on Apple's kill list

By on October 22, 2010, 8:18 PM
An Apple developer recently leaked the rules document governing the new Mac App Store, and the details aren't good for Oracle's Java. Over on a Pastie webpage, one line in the App Store Review Guidelines reads "Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java, Rosetta) will be rejected."

To add to Oracle's woes, in the most recent update of Mac OS X, Apple noted that Java would no longer come with the operating system, since the company does not approves of its use. "As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is deprecated," the release notes said. "This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X."

With Flash now all but killed on all of the company's devices, is Apple targeting Java next? It's certainly not out of the question, and a possible reason is security. Microsoft recently published data showing an "unprecedented wave" of Java malware exploits during the third quarter of this year.

The news comes soon after Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced the Mac App Store this week, and said it would be open for consumers in January, while developers could start submitting their creations next month. The approval process for the iOS App Store (which encompasses iPhones, iPads and iPods) is a major headache for many developers as some apps are approved in days while others are rejected after months with little or no explanation, but the Mac App Store might just be even more problematic.

In addition to the deprecation rule, and the usual bans on pornography and excessive violence, betas, demos, and trials are also off the table. The rules also say that Apple will reject apps that are similar to apps already available, have hidden features, use non-public APIs, exhibit bugs, or crash. "Apps with metadata that mentions the name of any other computer platform will be rejected," the document further adds.





User Comments: 36

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princeton princeton said:

If they keep up this way the next thing they kill will be their fanbase. Mac tards may act like zombies but they have enough free will to know when a device has more locks than Fort Knox.

SNGX1275 SNGX1275, TS Forces Special, said:

If they keep up this way the next thing they kill will be their fanbase. Mac tards may act like zombies but they have enough free will to know when a device has more locks than Fort Knox.

They are doing something pretty smart here actually. All you guys that hate Macs and their closed systems need to think about what Apple is really doing here rather than thinking that they are eliminating companies.

Let me explain it briefly for you - Apple is saying they are tired of taking Sun/Oracle's Java and making their own version out of it. Right now, when a new version is released it takes Apple a bit of time to toy with it and release a version for OS X. During that time everyone loves to bash Apple for having out of date and vulnerable versions of Java. So what Apple is doing here is saying 'we want users to be able to use the latest version of Java straight from the developer'.

princeton princeton said:

SNGX1275 said:

If they keep up this way the next thing they kill will be their fanbase. Mac tards may act like zombies but they have enough free will to know when a device has more locks than Fort Knox.

They are doing something pretty smart here actually. All you guys that hate Macs and their closed systems need to think about what Apple is really doing here rather than thinking that they are eliminating companies.

Let me explain it briefly for you - Apple is saying they are tired of taking Sun/Oracle's Java and making their own version out of it. Right now, when a new version is released it takes Apple a bit of time to toy with it and release a version for OS X. During that time everyone loves to bash Apple for having out of date and vulnerable versions of Java. So what Apple is doing here is saying 'we want users to be able to use the latest version of Java straight from the developer'.

Just like they did with flash on iOS right?

captaincranky captaincranky, TechSpot Addict, said:

If they keep up this way the next thing they kill will be their fanbase. Mac tards may act like zombies but they have enough free will to know when a device has more locks than Fort Knox.
You're quite sure about that? Actually, quite a few either don't know, or don't care.

Guest said:

As a java developer in the financial sector -- Apple, you are pointing a gun at your own head and feel free to pull the trigger because I think their Java implementation is full of problems and UI glitches. So, for now traders like macs for their OS and their pretty 30 inch flat panels, and the fact that they can get their Java trading apps to run right -- but if the latter changes -- Dell and MS will be the beneficiary. So -- yea apple -- pull the trigger, just note that the money will go somewhere else. Outside of traders -- who else has the cash to spring on an 8 core $5000 mac pro? Steve has bitten off more than he can chew this time, and I for one will love to see this blow up in in his face.

SNGX1275 SNGX1275, TS Forces Special, said:

Just like they did with flash on iOS right?

That doesn't make any sense. Apple never developed Flash. What are you getting at?

As a java developer in the financial sector -- Apple, you are pointing a gun at your own head and feel free to pull the trigger because I think their Java implementation is full of problems and UI glitches. So, for now traders like macs for their OS and their pretty 30 inch flat panels, and the fact that they can get their Java trading apps to run right -- but if the latter changes -- Dell and MS will be the beneficiary. So -- yea apple -- pull the trigger, just note that the money will go somewhere else. Outside of traders -- who else has the cash to spring on an 8 core $5000 mac pro? Steve has bitten off more than he can chew this time, and I for one will love to see this blow up in in his face.

Oh come on really? I'm not a broker, but I very much doubt that traders rely on Apple's 1 or 2 version out of date Java make their livelyhood, if java was deadly to their game they'd totally avoid Macs.

Your Mac Pro comment is age old, and it has an age old response of basically "if you can't afford one, you aren't their target audience". I imagine that attitude pisses you off.

Guest said:

Is not true that an 5000 mac pro is an age old comment. Its not about marketing my friend its about that Apple knows they have their costumers by the balls so everything they made an put a apple logo on it will be bought. Macs aesthetically are beatiful machines, and their Os is one of the best but, its overpriced, with that money you can build or buy a really but really more powerful machine and also with great design and better components. The macbooks, iphones, and macs are made by foxconn !! so cmon not because you buy a mac you have to avoid your common sense. im a PC and Mac user by the way.

SNGX1275 SNGX1275, TS Forces Special, said:

Guest - Apple may have some customers by the balls, but obviously they don't have you, and they don't have me by the balls. I'm 30 years old, my dad bought us our first Mac in about 1991. I grew up on Macs, in college (in 1998) I bought a Windows 95 HP with a 98 upgrade, since then I've been in a mixed environment of Macs and PCs. Apple doesn't have me by the balls, I buy them because I want it. I also build my own PCs because I want what they can offer.

So what if the products are made by foxconn or whoever, no major retailer makes the components of their devices.

LinkedKube LinkedKube, TechSpot Project Baby, said:

The comment about apple having people by the ball applies to a very large audience in the mac sector. Ive seen friends cry about mac os not behaving right(not sure if it was serious or not) and while its bitter sweet it is also disturbing to know that "got you by the ball," or in the cases I saw "ovaries" could be switched into that statement. SNGX I think you fit into a small bracket of mac users just as I fit into a small area of pc enthusiast. WE are both in those groups that count for less than 5% of the respective pc/mac consumer base. While I can afford a mac just as you can I choose not to.

To get back on topic I'm sure Steve has many of his reasons for debunking Sun as a part of his pet project. Even if they see money loss because of it, it would only be short term. Very short term. We all know how good apple is at R&D. If nothing else is said besides they look pretty their R&D and marketing departments make up for what some in this thread may think is a loss for good old steve.

Kibaruk Kibaruk, TechSpot Paladin, said:

Apple don't sell computers or electronic device, they sell status and some sort of lifestyle (There might be a few exceptions, but not because of Apple but because of that 5% users supersmashbrada defined in some way), and because people are dumbasses this will continue to be so.

mario mario, Ex-TS Developer, said:

My mom is going to be soooo sad they don't include Java anymore :'(

Java app = ?-Q

jobeard jobeard, TS Ambassador, said:

Well, I agnostic (eg: don't care which system) and started with a Mac IIci which the wife did

desktop publishing and photoshop. Today we have OS X, Win/XP, and Linux systems. Each system as its own pros/cons (if you're honest). btw: I spend 10x more time keeping Win/XP stable than I do the Mac or the Linux - - is there a message there?

Apple has always been in the forefront of innovation and human factors. That draws many

people to the platform. Flash was booted off the iPhone and now Java is apparently headed into the heap of history (at least for Apple). There are many reasons to withdraw support of specific software; some are business, maintenance or security related. Get a grip - - it happens on all platforms.

Leeky Leeky said:

Well, I agnostic (eg: don't care which system) and started with a Mac IIci which the wife did

desktop publishing and photoshop. Today we have OS X, Win/XP, and Linux systems. Each system as its own pros/cons (if you're honest). btw: I spend 10x more time keeping Win/XP stable than I do the Mac or the Linux - - is there a message there?

I'd have to agree there, with the exception of W7, which has been flawless so far on several computers for the last 6-7 months of daily use.

Ultimately many factors decide what OS you go for. I like all 3 because I can appreciate the good/bad factors of each OS. I learned on Mac's as well, and I wouldn't be without one if I'm honest. That said, my iMac is now nearly 3 years old, and I've no plans to retire it yet - I just can't justify the expense right now, and although the GPU is a tad pants, it runs perfectly well with its 2.0GHz Core2 CPU and 3GB of RAM.

Guest said:

Might as well get rid of that unsafe "Internet" crap... if they are using security as a reason for removing Java they are dumber than they look. PDF's must also be removed from osx because a massive amount of security flaws work through PDF run scripts. (Though I know mac users are incapable of submitting a document that isn't in PDF form.) I hope they continue to systematically remove features that are used in every day society so they will fall from the massive 4% or so of the market share like they deserve for selling overpriced "trendy but useless" crap.

stewi0001 stewi0001 said:

Seriously what the heck is going on!? I'm not a big fan of Apple computers but I wasn't holding anything against them either and now this? My coding skills are focused on Java and one of the reasons I choose it was because of being able to run it on any system. Java is one of the most secure languages out there.

What's next? "The new istare, don't touch it! just look at it..."

captaincranky captaincranky, TechSpot Addict, said:

"Apple Marketing Paradigm Revealed"

Seriously what the heck is going on!? I'm not a big fan of Apple computers but I wasn't holding anything against them either and now this? My coding skills are focused on Java and one of the reasons I choose it was because of being able to run it on any system. Java is one of the most secure languages out there.

What's next? "The new istare, don't touch it! just look at it..."

I'm going to suggest that Apple release; "the new and revolutionary, "iPossitory". You don't use it as a phone, stereo, reader, or computer, you just stick it up your a**.

SNGX1275 SNGX1275, TS Forces Special, said:

Seriously what the heck is going on!? I'm not a big fan of Apple computers but I wasn't holding anything against them either and now this? My coding skills are focused on Java and one of the reasons I choose it was because of being able to run it on any system. Java is one of the most secure languages out there.

What's next? "The new istare, don't touch it! just look at it..."

Really? You know this little and you are staking your livelyhood on coding java? Apple is saying that if you want java, you need to get it from Sun/Oracle rather than their own version of Java which was always out of date. So now, if you have OS X and want Java, you can always run the newest version, rather than how it was in the past - where you had to run Apple's out of date version. This is a GOOD thing for you, not a negative.

Nima304 said:

Apple will pay for this. And what the hell is up with this:

"Apps with metadata that mentions the name of any other computer platform will be rejected," the document further adds.

Apple is cocooning itself; once it starts to fall, it shall receive no outside help.

Guest said:

Apple scares me, the amount of control they have on the use of their products, what you can have , what you cannot have, what you can do or cannot do , its like you don't own a apple product more like you are borrowing it for a price. this communist like consumer control is scary.

Guest said:

I've got Macs and PCs that I've built myself. I find both positives and negatives in Windows and MacOS.

Steve Jobs commented on this issue responding to a Java developer from Portico Systems saying:

"Sun (now Oracle) supplies Java for all other platforms. They have their own release schedules, which are almost always different than ours, so the Java we ship is always a version behind. This may not be the best way to do it."

He's pretty much saying that he's leaving it up to Oracle to do it. What's wrong with that? Its not the end of the universe, its not about locking down a system or taking away your freedom.

"Apple scares me, the amount of control they have"

Apple scares you? Hey man how about doing some research on how companies are tracking you on the net and how they've gotten good enough to ID you. Or how about how google scans your email or facebook uses your private info. There are plenty of other real things to be scared of.

Wow, techspot is becoming only second to Toms Hardware in number of Apple bashers.

captaincranky captaincranky, TechSpot Addict, said:

Wow, techspot is becoming only second to Toms Hardware in number of Apple bashers.
Are you suggesting then, that like "Avis", since we're only number two, we should try harder?

That said, I'm sure if you put your mind to it, you could find more than a few PC bashing, Apple oriented sites.

Or wait, there was the whole, "I'm a PC" Apple ad campaign. That was PS bashing was it not?

I would suggest that you hit any of Adobe's imaging forums. You'll find enough PC bashers there, to warm the cockles of your little apple shaped heart.

Emin3nce said:

Fiiight *dun dun dun* Fiiiight *dun dun dun* FIIIIGHT!!!

Mactards vs Pcboys go.

freythman freythman said:

princeton said:

Just like they did with flash on iOS right?

I <3 u

mattfrompa mattfrompa said:

Isn't it hypocritical for Apple to reject buggy or copycat software?

Guest said:

@captaincranky

Wow, you really are cranky aren't you? I guess the name fits after all.

"Are you suggesting then, that like "Avis", since we're only number two, we should try harder?"

Actually I'm kind of hoping that this site doesn't fall to such levels of mindless mouth-foaming hate that I sometimes find at other places. Because in general I like this site.

"That said, I'm sure if you put your mind to it, you could find more than a few PC bashing, Apple oriented sites."

I'm sure there are plenty or irrational MacFanboyz out there, but I'm not interested in their garbage just like I don't care for the apple bashing zealots' hate for the sake of hate garbage.

"You'll find enough PC bashers there, to warm the cockles of your little apple shaped heart."

I guess this is where you think your being clever. You didn't read my post then. I've got my issues with Apple stuff as well as the PC side. I can also find strengths in both sides.

Gbye now, try not to let the hate consume you so much I hear its bad for your heart...

captaincranky captaincranky, TechSpot Addict, said:

@captaincranky

Wow, you really are cranky aren't you? I guess the name fits after all.

"Are you suggesting then, that like "Avis", since we're only number two, we should try harder?"

Actually I'm kind of hoping that this site doesn't fall to such levels of mindless mouth-foaming hate that I sometimes find at other places. Because in general I like this site.

"That said, I'm sure if you put your mind to it, you could find more than a few PC bashing, Apple oriented sites."

I'm sure there are plenty or irrational MacFanboyz out there, but I'm not interested in their garbage just like I don't care for the apple bashing zealots' hate for the sake of hate garbage.

"You'll find enough PC bashers there, to warm the cockles of your little apple shaped heart."

I guess this is where you think your being clever. You didn't read my post then. I've got my issues with Apple stuff as well as the PC side. I can also find strengths in both sides.

Gbye now, try not to let the hate consume you so much I hear its bad for your heart...

I rather bash Steve Jobs and Apple's front line consumer product, and the individuals with diminished capacity that are addicted to it, certainly not Apple's pro line.

As to your free medical and psychological counseling, keep it!

I pretty much think that all this is funny, and as it's said,"laughter is the best medicine".

As to whether you're going to stop visiting this site because there's too much Apple bashing going on, the only person that's a big deal to, is you. I don't think that the site should be tailored to your sensitivities. If this thread is too disturbing to you, and you like this site so much, then go help somebody with their computer. After all, that's what the majority of these forums are about, helping people with their computers. What they're definitely not, is a platform for you to provide free, unsolicited, and unnecessary medical advice to me. And certainly not as a platform for you to announce that you're going to condescend to come here, in spite of a topic that so obviously upsets you.

Unless you lack free will altogether, simply don't continue posting to this thread. You either choose not to join the forum, or if you are a member, then you choose to post under yet another layer of anonymity. Many, if not most of the most irrational, "don't hate on Apple", posts are by guests. They're inarticulate, clumsy, heavy handed, ill conceived, tasteless and annoying in their abundant stupidity. I suppose it could be also said, that a great deal of the guest posts consist mainly of a bunch of 14 year old thought patterns in chronic disarray, interspersed with spasmodic lack of self control, symptoms of hormonal imbalance, which is then sprayed around indiscriminately, and more than likely launched from daddy's computer.

Oh BTW, the "you really are cranky" bit, has been done to death, Yeah, I'm "cranky", so what? Read the screen name, read the signature, and then, by all means, do us an humongous favor by stopping by and stating your remarkable, nay, verily consummate, grasp of the obvious.

I hope this helps.

topcoach said:

I hope Oracle decides to support Java on the Apple platforms.

SEverard said:

Apple are making the right moves. Get rid of Flash and Java. I want to see more HTML5

I am an iPhone btw

LightHeart said:

Plain and simple, Steve Jobs is a control freak, hence Apple is a control freak.

Java is a pain to support and I don't like using it.

Two wrongs don't make a right, though three lefts do.

polowise1 said:

Agree! and who isn't on Apples ( SJ ) kill list or should I say which kill lists are Apple on ?

SNGX1275 SNGX1275, TS Forces Special, said:

Plain and simple, Steve Jobs is a control freak, hence Apple is a control freak.

Perhaps, but in this context your words don't make sense. Apple is releasing their control on Java.

Guest said:

People are freaking out for no reason at all. Apple is basically saying "we don't want to handle this mess since it's always out of date when we attempt to "control" it; why not allow Oracle the burden?"

You will still find java available on Mac OsX(and other versions). Simply going to Oracle's site should not be that big of an issue(unless you have problems with Oracle like I do =P but I digress)

All the moaning and complaints are due to the fact that average joe mac user will actually have to do something to maintain java applications; apparently a couple minutes is too much for some users to take because they have to have it now.

Most other arguments seem to believe that Apple is abandoning java entirely; no. It's not happening now or anytime soon(but I could see it within the next decade).

Yes I stumbled all over the place in my post but it's what happens when your tired =P.

SNGX1275 SNGX1275, TS Forces Special, said:

All the moaning and complaints are due to the fact that average joe mac user will actually have to do something to maintain java applications; apparently a couple minutes is too much for some users to take because they have to have it now.

I think few if any complaints are for that reason. Most seem to be Windows users thinking Apple is 'killing' Java on OS X (like disallowing Flash on the iPhone). Its an uninformed and incorrect statement perpetuated by the headline of this article.

oasis789 said:

open source will eventually win over all.

jazboy said:

I think Apple is pretty smart on this. They want to control everything from hardware, software to apps.

Guest said:

"All the moaning and complaints are due to the fact that average joe mac user will actually have to do something to maintain java applications; apparently a couple minutes is too much for some users to take because they have to have it now."

The things is - most Mac users are dumb enough to have no clue how to do this. So, good luck getting ignorant and blind Mac users to go and download and install Java. :s

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