3 days ago there has been a shooting in a german school with several injured(students,teachers,and police coming to protect) overall it was 32 injured I think.
the shooting was done by a former student of that school.
now there is a scream going through germany:prohibit all "killer-games",as ego-shooters are called in germany.
it is true that the guy who did the shooting was into "killer-games" and also into guns(hard to get in germany....)
what is your opinion?have you experienced anything of that(sad)kind in your country?how do media react?how does the public react?

if this is not the kind of topic to dicuss in this forum....well,kick it out

Poeople naturally, in are way of "society", feal as if the blame someone or something, it brings closier to them. Not "concously " ( I don't really like these terms but it's something everyone can understand)but "subconcously ". One person finds something wrong or atlest "think" it's wrong from one's perspective and they go aqusing it. They have never experianced it and if it's anything out of one's (we won't go pointing fingers) perseption it's instantly wrong. There are many sernios I can bring up where this true, religon, poltics,soilism, etc, etc.


Futhermore I think it is ridiculuos accusing video-games to be the sorce of the problem.

3 days ago there has been a shooting in a german school with several injured(students,teachers,and police coming to protect) overall it was 32 injured I think.
the shooting was done by a former student of that school.
now there is a scream going through germany:prohibit all "killer-games",as ego-shooters are called in germany.
it is true that the guy who did the shooting was into "killer-games" and also into guns(hard to get in germany....)
what is your opinion?have you experienced anything of that(sad)kind in your country?how do media react?how does the public react?

if this is not the kind of topic to dicuss in this forum....well,kick it out

I am into guns, somewhat and FPS games but that doesn't mean I am going to go on a rampage (usually the sorry *** parents of the murderer/shooter)

People who do stuff like that are weak minded or have alot of personal issues.
But then you have all the tree huggers who want to blame games and music on their problems.

I lived in Germany for 5 years and loved every minute of it. I feel much safer being in Germany then the United States.

The kids and the school system seem much safer and better overall, IMO.

!@#$ing tree huggers!

I am into guns, somewhat and FPS games but that doesn't mean I am going to go on a rampage (usually the sorry *** parents of the murderer/shooter)

People who do stuff like that are weak minded or have alot of personal issues.
But then you have all the tree huggers who want to blame games and music on their problems.

I lived in Germany for 5 years and loved every minute of it. I feel much safer being in Germany then the United States.

The kids and the school system seem much safer and better overall, IMO.

Well smore9648, our school systems in the United States are sought after. We along with Britain have a lot (not all, not all) of the World's best Universities and Colleges (Yale, M.I.T, Harvard University, BU, BC, Brown, Stanford, etc.), so we're doing something right. Also, I think it depends on where you are about the safeness you feel (in general). I am sure that there are places in the United States where you would feel the same "safeness" as Germany as well as all countries in the world.

!@#$ing tree huggers!

And what is your reasoning for calling these people "tree huggers"?

It's a legit question but you should really try to not stereotype people like that. First of all as cfitzarl said, i don't see any connection between treehuggers and video games. Second, both republicans and democrats (if thats what you were implying) passed the law to put the game rating system on games after the columbine shooting, because the kids that did it were big doom fans. So to say one political party is the reason for this is completely untrue.

This is my take on it.

I don`t think violent video games/movies are a threat to any normal person. However, I can see where it would be possible for someone who was mentally unstable to do such a thing because of the content of the said games/movies.

At the end of the day, who knows what triggers these nuts to do what they do?

To ban some video games/movies, based on what is an isolated incident in Germany, is in my opinion a gross overreaction.

Whilst I feel very sorry for those affected by tragedies like these, in the main, especially in Europe, these are very isolated incidents.

It does seem to be more prevalent in the US. Why that should be the case, I dont know, other than to say, maybe access to guns is easier in the US than it is here in the UK for example.

Whatever the reasons, it sure is a crying shame, that young kids are killed or injured in this way.

Regards Howard.

i think the main thing on this whole subject is when the person who's playing the game can't distinguish fantasy to reality.. once those lines are blurred they are officially addicted on it like a drug.

i like fps too, and play it on occasion, but i don't necessarily go out shooting people, nor play some sword based RPG then have the urge to start slashing people with a machete or a humongous blade (unless you're shooting a movie or in a cosplay, which you would be using harmless fakes anyways..). both not as readily available in australia.. maybe thats a good thing..

granted there are some games that are ok to play, and some others which are really bad for your mental health and should have a R rating on it or something..

most of the time i think its more about the person than the actual game being singled out.. like smore said, mindset of that person could have got problems etc at the time, which could contribute to irrational behavior.. and having easier access to weaponry just makes it more convenient for the person to act on the thought without thinking of it..

there should be ways available to educate people into how to enjoy games properly, and not go into a killing spree afterwards, but blaming things is easier and cost less.. and it is a shame on the loss of those kids and people so early in life..

This is my take on it.

I don`t think violent video games/movies are a threat to any normal person. However, I can see where it would be possible for someone who was mentally unstable to do such a thing because of the content of the said games/movies.

At the end of the day, who knows what triggers these nuts to do what they do?

To ban some video games/movies, based on what is an isolated incident in Germany, is in my opinion a gross overreaction.

Whilst I feel very sorry for those affected by tragedies like these, in the main, especially in Europe, these are very isolated incidents.

It does seem to be more prevalent in the US. Why that should be the case, I dont know, other than to say, maybe access to guns is easier in the US than it is here in the UK for example.

Whatever the reasons, it sure is a crying shame, that young kids are killed or injured in this way.

Regards Howard.

I completely agree. A lot of these "nuts" also blame games for their wrongdoing. For example, there was a teenager who went on a killing spree and then blamed Grand Theft Auto. I think that there are only a very small amount of people (who should be carefully watched) who take video games personally and see them as an excuse to do the violent things that they do.

Well smore9648, our school systems in the United States are sought after. We along with Britain have a lot (not all, not all) of the World's best Universities and Colleges (Yale, M.I.T, Harvard University, BU, BC, Brown, Stanford, etc.), so we're doing something right. Also, I think it depends on where you are about the safeness you feel (in general). I am sure that there are places in the United States where you would feel the same "safeness" as Germany as well as all countries in the world.


Germans allow all the young children to walk to school and back without parent guidance. That can not be said in too many places in the U.S.

Germans allow all the young children to walk to school and back without parent guidance. That can not be said in too many places in the U.S.
well actually parents in germany are asked to let their kids walk to school alone(or with all the friends who live in the same area)...and usually the kids like it that way

. I think that there are only a very small amount of people (who should be carefully watched) who take video games personally and see them as an excuse to do the violent things that they do.
I do agree that there is only very few kids actually taking games into real life,
but you mention that they should be carefully watched...what could be the early warning signals,and who is responsible for seeing them?

This is my take on it.

I can see where it would be possible for someone who was mentally unstable to do such a thing because of the content of the said games/movies.



Regards Howard.
but all teenagers are kind of mentally unstable -to a certain degree- I`m still trying to find the "switch",that makes them go out and do it...and all that (usually) after they planned it,made movies,posted in forums and so on

but all teenagers are kind of mentally unstable -to a certain degree- I`m still trying to find the "switch",that makes them go out and do it...and all that (usually) after they planned it,made movies,posted in forums and so on

Actualy Chrissof, Im not unstable at all and im 15... I like computers and messing
& tweaking around with them too much to bother with going crazy, If I want to go crazy I'll launch Counterstrike and headshot some people :D

but all teenagers are kind of mentally unstable -to a certain degree-

I wasn`t referring to normal teenage angst. I was referring to people who have a definite mental problem and can`t differentiate between games/movies and reality. Walking into a school or any other establishment with the intent to kill and injure is definitely not a normal teenage thing to want to do.

Regards Howard :)

...but you mention that they should be carefully watched...what could be the early warning signals,and who is responsible for seeing them?
Parents/Teachers/Peers all have ability to catch the early warning signals, or late signals even. Problem if you let teachers do it is there will be 'profiling' and in lawsuit happy America that is just an invitation for some family to get rich without doing anything except having a lousy kid.

So if we want to try to do anything about it we'll have to get some judges with enough balls to kick lawsuits like that out.

It is also such a small percentage that its really a statistical anomaly that any kid goes on a rampage, is it really worth millions of taxpayer dollars to drop the percentage of kids that shoot others from 0.00012 to 0.00011? (I made those numbers up). What I'm saying is I am not sure you can stop it from happening if you tried, a dedicated kid will still find a way.

Actualy Chrissof, Im not unstable at all and im 15... I like computers and messing
& tweaking around with them too much to bother with going crazy, If I want to go crazy I'll launch Counterstrike and headshot some people :D
Hi TimeParadox,didn`t mean to be offensive,sorry for that.
it`s not necessarily a sick or bad kind of "unstable" I`m talking about,
but remembering myself as a teenager...there was a lot of ....don`t really know how to call it...stuff,or worries,concerns.....on my mind.
well anyways
I like to headshot pixel heads as well...but most of my time in single player or sometimes lan-style with some friends.
and not to forget "tweaking and messing" the hardware

I wasn`t referring to normal teenage angst. I was referring to people who have a definite mental problem and can`t differentiate between games/movies and reality. Walking into a school or any other establishment with the intent to kill and injure is definitely not a normal teenage thing to want to do.

Regards Howard :)
Hi Howard. all these kids where once "normal kids",maybe at the age of ten or twelve?don`t know,but when does normal turn to killingspree?
there is probably not a psychologist around in this forum,and I don`t know whether I would like his / her answer...all their knowledge won`t help in these cases ...I think,as it is a society-concern,meaning (in a way) all of us
or am I too blue-eyed?

Parents/Teachers/Peers all have ability to catch the early warning signals, or late signals even. Problem if you let teachers do it is there will be 'profiling' and in lawsuit happy America that is just an invitation for some family to get rich without doing anything except having a lousy kid.

So if we want to try to do anything about it we'll have to get some judges with enough balls to kick lawsuits like that out.

What I'm saying is I am not sure you can stop it from happening if you tried, a dedicated kid will still find a way.
yeah,I always thought US-Laws are kind of strange in some cases...

that brings up the question:have kids ever since killed each other (in a way comparable to today?)like in mediavel times?or has our life changed so much that we are only facing a 2006 fact?

that brings up the question:have kids ever since killed each other (in a way comparable to today?)like in mediavel times?or has our life changed so much that we are only facing a 2006 fact?

Back then the kids were happy being with each other, Today it's like they are fighting to survive in a divided territory between each other which I think is quite stupid... But then I dont fight ( Much ;) ) so people who end up shooting up a school have no reason really... I mean look at other school shootings, They are shot up for the most retarded reasons, Like one kid shot up his school because his glasses got made fun of

So if I saw a kid walk into my school with a gun I would seriously punch him in the face then hold his arms where he couldnt move till the police guys came around

Hi....

This is my first post, and I just had to put something in here. I am originally from Germany. I can't believe that anything like that would happen in Germany. I always thought that the crazy ones were from Quebec, Canada.

The gunman here just didn't shot three people in a school, he shot and injured about 14. :(

Hi....

This is my first post, and I just had to put something in here. I am originally from Germany. I can't believe that anything like that would happen in Germany. I always thought that the crazy ones were from Quebec, Canada.

The gunman here just didn't shot three people in a school, he shot and injured about 14. :(

Hi Bush Lady,welcome to TechSpot.
as you can see I`m new to this forum as well - enjoyed my stay so far,enjoy yours...

something like this happens several times each year in the United States. awhile back, where were 3 shootings in one week.

i went to high school with a kid who was actually planning to go shooting up the place. he ran his mouth off (outside of school) about it for years but no one took him seriously. after i graduated, he told the wrong people i guess and they contacted the chicago PD. they sent four officers to 'talk' to him one morning as he walked from his car to the building. they searched him and found 2 knives. a search of his car revealed several firearms, ammunition, knives, and a freakin' hand grenade.

Some kid offed himself (http://www.nbc10.com/news/10515720/detail.html) yesterday (12 Dec) in Pennsylvania, in a school.

Yet another tragedy of a young life lost.

How the hell did a young kid get hold of an AK-47 rifle? That could never happen here in the UK, or at least I hope not. Someone somewhere has to do something about the gun laws in the US.

The district attorney said it appears the gun came from a gun safe in the family home with multiple other firearms. The teen found some way to get the gun out of the safe, which is secured with two keys kept by his father John Halligan, Castor said.

Why the hell would anyone want an AK-47 assault rifle at home?

Regards Howard :(

I grew up in a home with an unlocked display case for my dad's rifles and shotguns (ammo in cabinets below), I never brought them to school and shot myself or anyone. I'd like to have an AK, I imagine they are pretty fun to shoot. I've got a Fausti over&under 20gauge shotgun I enjoy shooting clays with.

The failure here isn't the kid or his dad having an AK-47, or gun laws, the failure is his parents not bringing him up better.

I understand what you`re saying SNGX, but the fact remains that gun related incidents are far more prevalent in the US than it is in the UK. This has got to be due to the availability of firearms in the US as compared to the UK.

Responsible gun ownership isn`t the problem, it`s the idiots who have access to guns that`s the problem.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that firearms are all to easy to get hold of in the US, whereas it`s completely the opposite here in the UK. Hence the vast difference in gun related incidents.

You can find some gun statistics HERE (http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm).

Gun Deaths - International Comparisons

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

Homicide Suicide Unintentional

USA 4.08 (1999) 6.08 (1999) 0.42 (1999)

Canada 0.54 (1999) 2.65 (1997) 0.15 (1997)

Switzerland 0.50 (1999) 5.78 (1998) -

Scotland 0.12 (1999) 0.27 (1999) -

England/Wales 0.12 (1999/00) 0.22 (1999) 0.01 (1999)

Japan 0.04* (1998) 0.04 (1995) <0.01 (1997)

It isn`t hard to see from the above, that the US has a far higher gun incident rate than anywhere else of the locations listed.

This has got to be due to the availability of firearmes in the US. If there`s another explanation, then I`m afraid it escapes me.

If guns are heavily controlled, then it follows that gun related incidents will be reduced.

This is not intended to start an argument, quite the contrary. I`m just trying to point out that the amount of firearms available in a country is proportional to the amount of gun related incidents.

Regards Howard :)

I wish the U.S. had the same gun restrictions as the U.K. the violence with guns is esculating and it out of control.

I am glad I do not have kids because I would worry about something like that happening to my kid.

I would agree with Smore9648, there is alot more deaths in the US with guns then in alot of other countries

You can't make that comparison, and you sure as hell can't use real numbers when the populations are so different, you have to use percents.

This (http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html) page has some information and links to their sources quite well. Here is an excerpt:
Arbitrary Comparisons Between Countries

The U.S. has a high gun murder rate, whereas a country like England with strict gun controls has almost no gun murders and a very low murder rate. Doesn't this show that gun control is effective in reducing murder rates? Not exactly. Prior to having any gun controls, England already had a homicide rate much lower than the United States (Guns, Murders, and the Constitution: A Realistic Assessment of Gun Control (http://www.guncite.com/journals/gun_control_katesreal.html#h7.2), Don B. Kates Jr.). Japan is another country typically cited (see Japanese Gun Control (http://i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/Japanese_Gun_Control.htm), by David B. Kopel). (Briefly discussing the difference in homicide rates between England and the U.S. is Clayton Cramer's, Variations in California Murder Rates: Does Gun Availability Cause High Murder Rates? (http://www.rkba.org/research/cramer/murder.txt))

Gun control opponents can play similar games. The Swiss with 7 million people have hundreds of thousands of fully-automatic rifles in their homes (see GunCite's "Swiss Gun Laws" (http://www.guncite.com/swissgun.html)) and the Israelis, until recently, have had easy access to guns (brief summary of Israeli firearms regulations here). Both countries have low homicide rates. Likewise this doesn't mean more guns less crime.

The U.S. has a higher non-gun murder rate than many European country's total murder rates. On the other hand, Taiwan, the Philippines, and Mexico have non-gun murder rates in excess of our total murder rate...

...There are many, many factors, some much more prominent than gun availability that influence homicide rates and crime in general. (See this excerpt (http://www.guncite.com/gcgfbirc.html) from 1997 FBI Uniform Crime Report and GunCite's "Is Gun Ownership Correlated with Violent Deaths?" (http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html#intl))

No need to get in an argument about this. My point still stands with the original topic, that the school shootings are a result of poor parenting and a failure of the kid's teachers and peers to pick up on the trouble brewing inside the kid.

Yes I have to agree with you SNGX, It's the parent's fault for not teaching the kid how to keep from killing people / themselfs

If I had a kid I would have guns ( to protect myself ) i'll teach them how to use them but teach them to control themselfs and not go crazy

Point taken SNGX.

So, why is there such a lot of gun related incidents in the US? If it`s not down to the amount of firearms and their controls, what is it down to? Surely it can`t all be due to bad parenting.

There has to be some explanation, though I can`t think of one, well, none that make any sense.

Regards Howard :)

I totally agree with everything SNGX said. I grew up around many guns. I was given a .30-06 for Christmas when I was 16. Today I have rifles, shot-guns, psitols.......and I play video games, and played Dungeons & Dragons as a kid. I never had the urger to go out and kill someone. Or take a gun to school or work. People that do this are already unstable. Although I do see where these things can influence these unstable people to do these things as well.
But then again whose to say that an unstable person doesnt get in there car a mow people down, which has happened. Should we put restrictions on cars too??

But tightening up guns laws or outlawing them is not the answer either. If it were then the outlaws would be the only ones with guns!

Well I would agree with Halo71 / Howard, I think it's the parent's fault for not teaching the kids

Also I have alot of guns like Halo71 and I play ALOT of videogames with violence ( only cool games have violence ;) ) and you dont see me on the news with a M16 killing 100s of people like in Grand theft auto

My point still stands with the original topic, that the school shootings are a result of poor parenting and a failure of the kid's teachers and peers to pick up on the trouble brewing inside the kid.agreed. i think we need a system that doesn't depend the parents being proactive, because that strategy is currently in place and is not working so well. ever since the 1998 shooting at columbine, colorado, more schools have been working with law enforcement and psychologists to help spot trouble before violence occurs. still, they have a long way to go.But tightening up guns laws or outlawing them is not the answer either. If it were then the outlaws would be the only ones with guns!yes, part of the problem is the gun laws in certain parts of the country. chicago, for instance, makes it illegal to carry a loaded weapon in public. the law-abiding citizens comply with the law, but the criminals don't. so criminals take advantage of the situation, and often correctly assume that their victim is not armed. even on the rare occasion that a would-be victim is armed and ends up repelling their attacker, they themselves usually face criminal charges for having and using a weapon.

I totally agree with everything SNGX said. I grew up around many guns. I was given a .30-06 for Christmas when I was 16. Today I have rifles, shot-guns, psitols.......and I play video games, and played Dungeons & Dragons as a kid. I never had the urger to go out and kill someone. Or take a gun to school or work. People that do this are already unstable. Although I do see where these things can influence these unstable people to do these things as well.
But then again whose to say that an unstable person doesnt get in there car a mow people down, which has happened. Should we put restrictions on cars too??

But tightening up guns laws or outlawing them is not the answer either. If it were then the outlaws would be the only ones with guns!
well halo71,I come from germany and this is a country where usually outlaws have guns - but also does the police,and I like to rely on them in order to keeping germany a save place to be.

well halo71,I come from germany and this is a country where usually outlaws have guns - but also does the police,and I like to rely on them in order to keeping germany a save place to be.

Well yeah....you are right. But what is the ratio of criminals to police? There are far more criminals running around with guns than there are police! My point is, I have guns in my house. And IF it ever comes down to someone breaking in my house and its me or them......the coroner better bring a body bag when he comes! Dont get me wrong, I am not a gun carrying redneck from the south. But I wont hesitate to protect myself or my daughter either!

What part of Germany? My great grandfather was born in Stuttgart.

Well yeah....you are right. But what is the ratio of criminals to police? There are far more criminals running around with guns than there are police! My point is, I have guns in my house. And IF it ever comes down to someone breaking in my house and its me or them......the coroner better bring a body bag when he comes! Dont get me wrong, I am not a gun carrying redneck from the south. But I wont hesitate to protect myself or my daughter either!

What part of Germany? My great grandfather was born in Stuttgart.
Hi halo71.
Of course I would defend myself and my family against an attack.Everybody has the right to do so.but imagine a robbery in your house.the guy(it`s always guys)
is probably headed for your money;pc,stereo....and not necessarily a threat to anyone`s life - you see that guy,point a gun at him(if he has one he`s probably not holding it in his hands as he needs them to steal your hard earned stuff)
the point I`m trying to get to is : Your gun could be the one to start making a situation escalate,and have coroners bringing bodybags(and I think in the US many people have big caliber guns,endangering your entire family when shooting inside a house)
and even worse case scenario : your next child is a son(I have two 5/6)
groing up to be a teenager,getting some sort of teenage trouble.you don`t really realize what goes on in your boys head,and one day he takes the gun daddy has in his safe.
O.K.I´m sorry halo71,that is a drastic scene,don`t get me wrong
but my original post was to try and find out how to be able to understand,and of course avoid, tragedies like the one`s mentioned all over this threat

and I come from the Cologne/Bonn-area,but I must admit that if I were american,I´d probably have a gun as well...

but I must admit that if I were american,I´d probably have a gun as well...

That's funny! I think maybe you have gotten the wrong impression of America.
Thats like me saying that if I were German, I would sit in the beer garden all day!

While you make some interesting points....it does not matter if someone breaks in my house and is or is not threatening my life. At that point they have entered my personal/private space. And its not gonna be pretty for them, guy or gal!

That said, it still boils down to the parents. How they bring their kid up. Like i said, I have been around guns all my life. But I was raised to respect them and to respect life.

That's funny! I think maybe you have gotten the wrong impression of America.
Thats like me saying that if I were German, I would sit in the beer garden all day!

While you make some interesting points....it does not matter if someone breaks in my house and is or is not threatening my life. At that point they have entered my personal/private space. And its not gonna be pretty for them, guy or gal!

That said, it still boils down to the parents. How they bring their kid up. Like i said, I have been around guns all my life. But I was raised to respect them and to respect life.
hi halo71.
That what they invented hotspots for ...drinking beer in the hot sun... ;-)
Americans ALL waist their time at shooting ranges...or was it:shoot at strangers?
no, come on...
and you wouldn`t shoot a girl; would you?
I got to meet some very nice Americans,in fact all of them were.
Only ones I don`t like...well,I only see them on tv

Let me ask you a question
What did your parents do right to raise you up to a "good man" and father?
(whether there was/not guns at the house doesn`t really matter, as it seems to be easier and easier getting guns in any place of the world...)
What goes wrong to make a child turn maniac on society?Why didn`t you,why didn`t I?
Is there a "concept" in raising up your daughter?Does it even matter?you have a daughter,is she endangered at all?
(I know of the fears that parents have,don`t get me wrong...)
but has there ever been a girl,shooting up a school?
plenty of questions...uups

I was going to bring up the same point that Chrissof did. Certainly parental involvement is an important factor in many cases and it's possible that sometimes that could be the difference between snapping and not snapping. However I would bet that if you looked at everyone who goes on a shooting spree (or kills themselves from listening to rock and roll or playing Everquest or any other excuse) that you would find that they didn't all have ogres for parents.

So, as Chrissof said, what's the defining factor? What makes some snap and others not. There are plenty of kids out there in horrible family situations and some ofthem become sports stars, succesfull business people or anything on the other end of the spectrum. I wish I had a clue but I think it's a mystery.

Yet another tragedy of a young life lost.

How the hell did a young kid get hold of an AK-47 rifle? That could never happen here in the UK, or at least I hope not. Someone somewhere has to do something about the gun laws in the US.



Why the hell would anyone want an AK-47 assault rifle at home?

Regards Howard :(

Where I live in the U.S (Northeastern-Seaboard) there are pretty strict laws in place for gun control. One of the states that has barely any would be Texas and more of the mid-Western states near there, where there are more rural areas. Not many people go around killing people here; we are a safe country, it's just all people hear about are the bad news stories typically found in nightly, national news (for the U.S. NBC, CBS, etc. Would Britain be BBC?).

Yes im from texas and everyone has guns... You'll see babies with M16s shooting M203s at little bugs then a 4 year old with a Dune buggy with a M60 ontop of the car driving around... ( Off topic? :haha: )

Americans ALL waist their time at shooting ranges...or was it:shoot at strangers?


lol....I think I will shut my mouth now!

Apparently the more often you post in here the more likely you are to get credit for a thought someone else had.

Anyway, Bruff you are probably right not all had horrible parents, that is why it is a combined effort/responsibility of the kids parents, teachers, bus drivers, peers, ect. When you are in an institutionalized setting like a school there are people you see and have to interact with at some level even if its just walking into the same room. 1 person can't be held responsible for allowing these things to happen, its a community as a whole that should be.

I also think that even with all that there will be some that slip through the cracks, its already such a statistically low number of kids that do this that there is no reasonable amount of protection that can put a stop to it completely.

if you think gun laws are messed up where you live you should visit chicago. on average, we have 2 people murdered every day within city limits (invariably the weapon is a gun). carrying a handgun is illegal in chicago, and in some neighborhoods, having anything that looks like a gun can get you shot by the chicago police. every once in a while, someone with a cell phone or sometines nothing at all in thier hands is shot by the police because they suspected he had a gun.

mayor daley set up that system because he didn't want to fight the state legislature over illinois gun laws, so he makes sure that any cop who shoots on suspicion that a gun is involved goes not get reprimanded. this system was designed to scare people from carrying guns, but more innocent people are hurt/killed than criminals.

i agree with SNGX1275's that the problem will be extremely difficult, if not possible, to eliminate entirely. some people just aren't right in their heads and usually no one knows until it's too late.

if you think gun laws are messed up where you live you should visit chicago. on average, we have 2 people murdered every day within city limits (invariably the weapon is a gun). carrying a handgun is illegal in chicago, and in some neighborhoods, having anything that looks like a gun can get you shot by the chicago police. every once in a while, someone with a cell phone or sometines nothing at all in thier hands is shot by the police because they suspected he had a gun.

mayor daley set up that system because he didn't want to fight the state legislature over illinois gun laws, so he makes sure that any cop who shoots on suspicion that a gun is involved goes not get reprimanded. this system was designed to scare people from carrying guns, but more innocent people are hurt/killed than criminals.

i agree with SNGX1275's that the problem will be extremely difficult, if not possible, to eliminate entirely. some people just aren't right in their heads and usually no one knows until it's too late.

Cabreney Green is a fine example

You are correct I think, too many innocent people are killed by guns. Wether its by criminals or by police. MY point is that there are still people like me that are not crazy that have guns only to protect themselves or to hunt with. And SOME people maybe watch TV to much and think that ALL Americans are gun carrying idiots. My point was that ALL places in America are not like the wild west was 150 years ago. And that outlawing guns is not the answer. I think part of the answer is the judges are slapping the people that murder on the hand and letting them out of jail in 2 years. And not having stiffer sentences. I am all for capital punishment! Wasnt it Ron White that said Texas was putting in a express line for capital punishment? lol.....I wish Georgia would do that! Hell for that matter....lets put in some "self check-outs".......

MY point is that there are still people like me that are not crazy that have guns only to protect themselves or to hunt with.
You forgot recreation :) Shooting clays is a lot of fun provided you can hit them.

Cabreney Green is a fine examplei think you are referring to cabrini green. i believe that what happened to chicago's public housing projects happened because of classism and the budget tactics of former mayor richard j daley and his political circles (poorest neighborhoods got the least, rich ones got the most). of course, the aforementioned gun control tactics are making a bad situation worse.I am all for capital punishment!in my opinion, it takes way too long and costs too much, but that's an entirely different discussion...

i think part of the problem is that the system here is reactive, not proactive. perhaps someday someone will try targeting the problem at its source in addition to working on ways to better catch people after they've already done something.

You forgot recreation :) Shooting clays is a lot of fun provided you can hit them.

lol....didn't include that! Never was very good a hitting them!