Backblaze records zero failures for three HDD models in latest Q2 2021 drive reliability...

Aus spot

Posts: 113   +98
Why did you buy Green tho? Green is for storage on a PC, not built for 24/7 and NAS/Server operation at all. Mine was never meant for 24/7 but ended up as a Temp/Download drive in my NAS many years
Like most people, they were cost effective. They were used in a normal pc with good cooling. They still started failing on a regular basis.
 

bandit8623

Posts: 340   +187
Seagate is trash, I avoid at all costs. Seen so many defective drives from them (both personally and at work)

The worst drives in my 25+ years on the hardware market; Seagate (all), Maxtor (all) and IBM Deskstar (aka Deathstar). Seagate bought Maxtor...

I have had tons of WD drives, and still have some in my server/NAS, never seen a single drive dying yet. Hell I even have a WD Green running on year 12 for 24/7 operation, zero issues and not a single bad sector or weird noises.

Seagate is often what OEMs choose because they are always the cheapest. They sell tons of drives in bulk for peanuts and warrenty is 2 years tops (for good reason).

I would never store important stuff on a Seagate drive without backup thats for sure.

A friend of mine bought 4x Seagate 4TB for a RAID 10 setup, within 1 year 3 of those drives were dead and replaced... And he replaced a few more within 1 year after that. Terrible quality.

Best HDD brands by far is WD and HGST. Toshiba seems decent too but I don't have experience with them.
I wouldnt say seagate is trash, but yes I have seen better luck with hgst. part of that is wdd and hgst are using helium tech. seagate is just getting into that. also im using enterprise versions of both.
 

Mr Majestyk

Posts: 865   +765
Note to self. Avoid that Seagate 14TB model, wow nearly 6% FR.
Not all their models are trash by any means. I had a brand new Toshiba 8TB X300 making the click of death noise straight up, just got unlucky. I don't immediately regard Toshiba as trash.

I have Seagate drives from 2011 still going strong as well as WD Black drives from 2013. I even have some old Samsung 750GB drives from 2008 still working fine, but I recycled them as they were just too small for my needs. Shame Samsung aren't still making HDD's.
 

Fastturtle

Posts: 16   +14
I've had more WD drives fail then Seagate over the years while the few Toshiba's I've used did last, I wasn't happy with them due to noise levels. Funny thing is, I have one of the 1st Gen 3TB Seagate 7200 drives still in operation (12+ years now) and it is still going strong. On the WD front, I've had several of their spinning disks fail and I was even surprised to have one of their 2TB Blue M.2 Sata drives suddenly fail though they did replace it under warranty.

Main reason I will not buy any WD SPinners is the SMR crap. Usable but I prefer to know what drives are using it to plan their usage properly, otherwise, they tend to be very bad performance and continue to time out but WD prefers to sell SSD's instead so they are doing their best to kill off their spinning products.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 553   +426
Making any kind of conclusions from Backblaze data is invalid. Drives have:

- Different usage before Backblaze got them, some new, some used
- Different usage scenarios on Backblaze (read/write loads, idle times etc)
- Different condition on Backblaze (temperature, that is very important)

Therefore it's' impossible to make any valid conclusions from Backblaze statistics.


well that's pessimistic - my drives are facing north in line with magnetic earth . Yours are perpendicular .
I like chocolate you like beef jerky - so we can not compare our data.

I think your conclusion is invalid - these are statistics of large numbers - normally if backblaze has a real bad bunch or source they let you know.

Your point is valid for a lot of drug tests - most done on white males from well of countries .

To the article - really happy QC is getting so much better - especially given the size of the drives.

So that's one conclusion I've drawn - Drive failure rates across all manufacturers is decreasing .

Sure Backblaze can handle drive failure - so some failure is acceptable to them it cost and effort are less. For most users any drive failure is heartbreak - as most people don't back up everything
 

whateversa

Posts: 54   +63
Seagate is trash, I avoid at all costs. Seen so many defective drives from them (both personally and at work)

The worst drives in my 25+ years on the hardware market; Seagate (all), Maxtor (all) and IBM Deskstar (aka Deathstar). Seagate bought Maxtor...

I have had tons of WD drives, and still have some in my server/NAS, never seen a single drive dying yet. Hell I even have a WD Green running on year 12 for 24/7 operation, zero issues and not a single bad sector or weird noises.

Seagate is often what OEMs choose because they are always the cheapest. They sell tons of drives in bulk for peanuts and warrenty is 2 years tops (for good reason).

I would never store important stuff on a Seagate drive without backup thats for sure.

A friend of mine bought 4x Seagate 4TB for a RAID 10 setup, within 1 year 3 of those drives were dead and replaced... And he replaced a few more within 1 year after that. Terrible quality.

Best HDD brands by far is WD and HGST. Toshiba seems decent too but I don't have experience with them.

I have had the opposite experience. In my 25+ year experience, all western digital drives fail - usually in less than 1 year. That however was related to how they are transported to various countries - so that might be a bigger factor in reliability than the brand itself.

Average drive age in these reports are useless and can completely misrepresent actual performance.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,264   +926
well that's pessimistic - my drives are facing north in line with magnetic earth . Yours are perpendicular .
I like chocolate you like beef jerky - so we can not compare our data.

I think your conclusion is invalid - these are statistics of large numbers - normally if backblaze has a real bad bunch or source they let you know.
There's nothing wrong with my conclusions. To make statistics that have some value, Backblaze should have large amount of new drives on same enviroment under same load. From those four they only have one: large amount of drives. That's why their statistics really have no value of any kind.
 

Bawlsdeep

Posts: 141   +153
I have had the opposite experience. In my 25+ year experience, all western digital drives fail - usually in less than 1 year. That however was related to how they are transported to various countries - so that might be a bigger factor in reliability than the brand itself.

Average drive age in these reports are useless and can completely misrepresent actual performance.
All WD drives fail within a year? Yeah sure :joy: :joy: Strange .. I have 12 WD drives running on 8+/5+ years for 24/7 operation at home in my server then, I must be very lucky :laughing:

WD stocks increased 1500% in 5 years ;) coincident? Probably not.

Since we went WD in our data center, we barely new buy drives anymore. They just work. With Seagate, we bought several drives every quarter and often we even recieved DoA units. So yeah, no thanks. We only have around 100 drives left. Slowly going cloud.

Seagate is considered trash in most companies. There is a reason why the biggest datacenters mostly use WD these days or slowly changing to WD. Like we did. Only good alternatives are HGST pretty much and oh... WD owns HGST too :laughing:

Seagate bought Maxtor back in the days, a trash company that made unreliable HDDs, in comparison. Simply no reason to buy their stuff, unless you like to change drives often maybe.
 
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Bawlsdeep

Posts: 141   +153
Like most people, they were cost effective. They were used in a normal pc with good cooling. They still started failing on a regular basis.

No they won't, if you disable headparking, feel free to google it. This is nothing new and common knowledge. WD Green HDDs have not been made for years tho, so who cares
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 553   +426
There's nothing wrong with my conclusions. To make statistics that have some value, Backblaze should have large amount of new drives on same enviroment under same load. From those four they only have one: large amount of drives. That's why their statistics really have no value of any kind.


So your conclusion is the correlation between Backblazes' data and consumer use of the same drives ( even though some people run them 24 hours a day in servers ) is a big fat ZERO.
Ie their results for use in peoples home is just 100% noise .
That Farcebook could extract conclusions more analysing encrypted data ?

I gave you one conclusion that over the years Backblaze has shown spinning hard drives to be much more reliable.
Now you could try to refute that in saying
1) the have a better environment every year - less heat , shaking etc
2) the data is only relevant to them - so they can make better buying decisions - ergo you will get YOY less failure rates

I will give you another preposition
That I will find a correlation greater than ZERO ( your claim ) with the data of Newegg and Amazon
In the past when I have checked - I have found a correlation when you get thousands of review .
I really hope you are not working as a scientist or engineer speaking with Trumpian convictions ( he does not need data or info either - he just knows )
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,264   +926
So your conclusion is the correlation between Backblazes' data and consumer use of the same drives ( even though some people run them 24 hours a day in servers ) is a big fat ZERO.
Ie their results for use in peoples home is just 100% noise .
On context they show it, yes. They have mixed bunch of used and new drives on different enviroments and workloads. Drawing any conclusions from that bunch will fail.
I gave you one conclusion that over the years Backblaze has shown spinning hard drives to be much more reliable.
Now you could try to refute that in saying
1) the have a better environment every year - less heat , shaking etc
2) the data is only relevant to them - so they can make better buying decisions - ergo you will get YOY less failure rates
No no and no. Amateurs like you only look at results. Professionals like I look how results have been obtained. Remember 2011 when HDD prices tripled? Now, Backblaze is company that needs more HDD's all the time. If prices are ultra high and availability nearly zero, what they do? Grab whatever HDD's they could, no matter what quality. Durability of those drives? Figure it out.

So Backblazes statistics proves nothing about HDD durability getting better.
I will give you another preposition
That I will find a correlation greater than ZERO ( your claim ) with the data of Newegg and Amazon
In the past when I have checked - I have found a correlation when you get thousands of review .
I really hope you are not working as a scientist or engineer speaking with Trumpian convictions ( he does not need data or info either - he just knows )
I don't give much credit for anonymous reviews. Bots can easily make tons of them. Even if those are from real people, quality is often like: Works 10/10, DOA 0/10.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 553   +426
On context they show it, yes. They have mixed bunch of used and new drives on different enviroments and workloads. Drawing any conclusions from that bunch will fail.

No no and no. Amateurs like you only look at results. Professionals like I look how results have been obtained. Remember 2011 when HDD prices tripled? Now, Backblaze is company that needs more HDD's all the time. If prices are ultra high and availability nearly zero, what they do? Grab whatever HDD's they could, no matter what quality. Durability of those drives? Figure it out.

So Backblazes statistics proves nothing about HDD durability getting better.

I don't give much credit for anonymous reviews. Bots can easily make tons of them. Even if those are from real people, quality is often like: Works 10/10, DOA 0/10.
So if say on Backblaze a seagate drive shows that x thousand drives have a failure of 4% and X thousand HGST drives of the same size has .05% .
You would not use that in your buying decision - Yeah Right.

If you have no knowledge how to extract data from Amazon reviews - then that is sad

It's easy to sift most paid or bot reviews .
I also preface if with thousands of reviews .
One of mistakes of Bots/Paid they have a date cluster
3 star and four star reviews often get the most info.
On any review you can check the reviewer to see their other reviews

With hard drive reviews 1 stars often come in batches - so can be discounted if old - as that batch of HDs were defective in manufacture. eg I bought 6 of these bad boys for my NAS and 4 were DOA .

When I look at Anime to watch the scores between IMDB & Anime sites is surprisingly close - if sufficient reviews .

I do find Newegg buyers rate harder than Amazon.
Plus you know that certain drives are huge sellers - so if they were bad - you would get a lot feedback - most happy buyers do not review.
HDs are pretty reliable as they sit in PS3/4 ,Xboxes - media recorders, surveillance etc working away for years - I hear very few people complaining their PS3 hard drive failed

I have a love of science more than tech - humans have an innate ability to see patterns - they will also see patterns in noise , faces in landscapes etc .
Anyway my next assumption is that we will continue to disagree - That I think you can extract info from Amazon reviews and Backblaze and that for you - that you have no ability to do so - as there is no info to be gained
 

umbala

Posts: 413   +581
Seagate is trash, I avoid at all costs. Seen so many defective drives from them (both personally and at work)

The worst drives in my 25+ years on the hardware market; Seagate (all), Maxtor (all) and IBM Deskstar (aka Deathstar). Seagate bought Maxtor...

I have had tons of WD drives, and still have some in my server/NAS, never seen a single drive dying yet. Hell I even have a WD Green running on year 12 for 24/7 operation, zero issues and not a single bad sector or weird noises.

Seagate is often what OEMs choose because they are always the cheapest. They sell tons of drives in bulk for peanuts and warrenty is 2 years tops (for good reason).

I would never store important stuff on a Seagate drive without backup thats for sure.

A friend of mine bought 4x Seagate 4TB for a RAID 10 setup, within 1 year 3 of those drives were dead and replaced... And he replaced a few more within 1 year after that. Terrible quality.

Best HDD brands by far is WD and HGST. Toshiba seems decent too but I don't have experience with them.
Lovely anecdote. Overall it's completely meaningless. I can point you to a dozen people who had the exact opposite experience as you. I've been handling hardware for nearly 30 years now and had hard drives fail from every manufacturer. The fact is that certain models fail more than others, regardless of manufacturer. To say that Segate is garbage and WD is some kind of king is just silly. I've had drives fail from both WD and Seagate, but more of them from Seagate because I've handled more of those. Yes, overall I would say that WD is a higher quality brand (that's why it's more expensive), but it's not a night and day difference as you tried to paint it.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,800   +2,154
TechSpot Elite
well that's pessimistic - my drives are facing north in line with magnetic earth . Yours are perpendicular .
I like chocolate you like beef jerky - so we can not compare our data.

I think your conclusion is invalid - these are statistics of large numbers - normally if backblaze has a real bad bunch or source they let you know.

Your point is valid for a lot of drug tests - most done on white males from well of countries .

To the article - really happy QC is getting so much better - especially given the size of the drives.

So that's one conclusion I've drawn - Drive failure rates across all manufacturers is decreasing .

Sure Backblaze can handle drive failure - so some failure is acceptable to them it cost and effort are less. For most users any drive failure is heartbreak - as most people don't back up everything
The only thing that I don't have backed up is Windows (although I do have my users folder backed-up). Actually, that's not true, I don't have my Steam/Origin/uPlay/Epic games backed up (except for the saved games) because I can re-install those at will just like Windows.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,800   +2,154
TechSpot Elite
So if say on Backblaze a seagate drive shows that x thousand drives have a failure of 4% and X thousand HGST drives of the same size has .05% .
You would not use that in your buying decision - Yeah Right.

If you have no knowledge how to extract data from Amazon reviews - then that is sad

It's easy to sift most paid or bot reviews .
I also preface if with thousands of reviews .
One of mistakes of Bots/Paid they have a date cluster
3 star and four star reviews often get the most info.
On any review you can check the reviewer to see their other reviews

With hard drive reviews 1 stars often come in batches - so can be discounted if old - as that batch of HDs were defective in manufacture. eg I bought 6 of these bad boys for my NAS and 4 were DOA .

When I look at Anime to watch the scores between IMDB & Anime sites is surprisingly close - if sufficient reviews .

I do find Newegg buyers rate harder than Amazon.
Plus you know that certain drives are huge sellers - so if they were bad - you would get a lot feedback - most happy buyers do not review.
HDs are pretty reliable as they sit in PS3/4 ,Xboxes - media recorders, surveillance etc working away for years - I hear very few people complaining their PS3 hard drive failed

I have a love of science more than tech - humans have an innate ability to see patterns - they will also see patterns in noise , faces in landscapes etc .
Anyway my next assumption is that we will continue to disagree - That I think you can extract info from Amazon reviews and Backblaze and that for you - that you have no ability to do so - as there is no info to be gained
Whatever translation program you used to make that post... see if you can get your money back because it didn't work.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 883   +1,678
I see what you did there! :laughing:
shh
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 553   +426
The only thing that I don't have backed up is Windows (although I do have my users folder backed-up). Actually, that's not true, I don't have my Steam/Origin/uPlay/Epic games backed up (except for the saved games) because I can re-install those at will just like Windows.

That's nice - I said most people - not you or users of this site - most people only back up - because Apple/Google/M/S or some other company does it for them.

Anyway thanks for your story
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 553   +426
The only thing that I don't have backed up is Windows (although I do have my users folder backed-up). Actually, that's not true, I don't have my Steam/Origin/uPlay/Epic games backed up (except for the saved games) because I can re-install those at will just like Windows.
Whatever translation program you used to make that post... see if you can get your money back because it didn't work.


What's your point - a personal attack on me ? really - you are better than that - we have agreed on a lot of things and disagree on others .
I'm happy to be corrected - because I learn something .
If you don't understand my point - or have disagreement - then please say - as it stands my post has positive validity your reply is 100% negativity and trolling .
I disagree often with say insanegamer - but I give them likes with good comments.
I do troll as well with QR - but I like to think I do it as a running joke and with kindness - if QR said he was offended I would stop - but even he said his posts are media flexing - so he knowingly sets himself up as a fall guy.

Your comment is 100% unkind and nasty - though happy for you to say otherwise or it was just a flippant comment

I stand by my points information can be extracted from Backblaze reports for consumers and Amazon reviews - both things HardReset says is impossible .

Ps I'm not upset - but this forum is pretty good - You probably know I have a good sense of self and can look after myself - and you probably wouldn't do it to a new poster .

I also regret saying higher up a Trumpian response - so that was nasty of me - but Trumps gut feelings & double downs are menes effectively now