Epic Games sues Google and Samsung alleging collusion to block Play Store alternatives

[midian182]

What just happened? Never one to shy away from a lawsuit against some of the tech world's biggest players, Epic Games is now suing Google (again) and Samsung over an alleged coordinated effort to block Play Store alternatives being installed on Samsung devices.

Epic Games highlights Samsung Galaxy's Auto Blocker feature as the "the latest in a long series of dealings in which Google and Samsung have agreed not to compete to protect Google's monopoly power."

Auto Blocker and similar features can prevent users from sideloading apps from alternative app stores – I.e., not Google's Play Store or Samsung's Galaxy Store – on Samsung's mobile devices.

Auto Blocker was introduced as an opt-in feature in October 2023, but it became the default setting in July, the month before Epic launched its mobile app store. Samsung says the feature protects users from applications from unauthorized sources and malicious activity, but Epic says defualting the feature to "on" increases the installation process for sideloading apps from 15 steps to 21.

"It is not about reasonable measures to protect users against malware," Sweeney told reporters. "It's about obstruction of competition."

Epic says that Auto Blocker attempts to undermine the jury's decision in the 2023 Epic v. Google case that found Google had created an illegal monopoly by giving its own store prominence and limiting access for third-party alternatives. Epic says the trial included exhaustive and detailed evidence of Google's schemes to pay Samsung to not compete with the Google Play Store and to block other app stores from trying to compete.

Excerpt from an exhibit introduced in the US Epic v. Google trial

"Allowing this coordinated illegal anti-competitive dealing to proceed hurts developers and consumers and undermines both the jury's verdict and regulatory and legislative progress around the world," Epic said.

Epic has battled both Google and Apple in the courts over their respective app store practices, especially the commissions these companies take. In the case against Apple, Cupertino retained its control over the App Store and its payment system but was forced to relax its anti-steering provisions, allowing developers to guide users to external payment methods. The penalties against Google for breaking antitrust laws are expected to be announced soon.

Epic's App Store arrived on Android devices globally in August, allowing users to once again play the mobile version of Fortnite. But only those in the EU can install the Epic Store on iOS devices, thanks to the regulatory framework provided by the Digital Markets Act that is only enforceable in the European Union.

Epic says it has reached over 10 million installations of its mobile app store, meaning it's unlikely to reach its goal of 100 million installs by the end of the year, something Sweeney is blaming on Auto Blocker and other similar features.

Epic is asking the court to prohibit Samsung's and Google's anti-competitive and unfair conduct and mandate that Samsung eliminate the Auto Blocker by default and enable competition.

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Epic Games sues Google and Samsung alleging collusion to block Play Store alternatives

 

[yRaz]

Sp, I just want to say that I hate epic game store. That said, I 100% believe in their fight because the one thing that pisses me off about my Samsung phone is that I can't sideload whatever I want.

It's MY DEVICE, I paid for it, I own the hardware. While I might not own the software, I should be free to install whatever I want on my hardware. Stopping me from installing what OS I want in hardware that I paid for is more insulting than dealing with app stores.

The app store problem is a symptom of a large problem, we don't own what we pay for.

 

[Dreadcthulhu]

Sp, I just want to say that I hate epic game store. That said, I 100% believe in their fight because the one thing that pisses me off about my Samsung phone is that I can't sideload whatever I want.

It's MY DEVICE, I paid for it, I own the hardware. While I might not own the software, I should be free to install whatever I want on my hardware. Stopping me from installing what OS I want in hardware that I paid for is more insulting than dealing with app stores.

The app store problem is a symptom of a large problem, we don't own what we pay for.

This here; we need some sort of law (I purpose the name Digital Device Ownership act) that states that device manufacturers may not artificially block the actual owners of said devices from using their hardware with third party software, hardware, or repair services. Would not only fix anti-competitive issues with phones, but would also help with similar issue that have cropped up with cars, tractors, and trains.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

That auto blocker, just 1 update, could be force on with no optiont o turn it off, totally locking these devices down.

Was the option to enable non play store APKs really not enough? did we really need 2 ways to block app stores? Really google?

 

[kira setsu]

As the devils advocate, I see why he's griping but also think until epic makes their own phone/console or whatever theyll be suing everybody forever.

the average joe is a dummy, these phones are so locked down because of that fact, epic wants to do alot with someone elses stuff and google, samsung and apple are gonna fight nonstop to not allow it, mainly because if epic released something that f**ked up a bunch of phones the blame will just get shafted onto the device makers.

 

[Anton Longshot]

It's obvious to everyone familiar with Epic and their business practices that Epic's post-litigation Master Plan is to end up running their own anti-competitive walled garden.

 

[Dreadcthulhu]

As the devils advocate, I see why he's griping but also think until epic makes their own phone/console or whatever theyll be suing everybody forever.

the average joe is a dummy, these phones are so locked down because of that fact, epic wants to do alot with someone elses stuff and google, samsung and apple are gonna fight nonstop to not allow it, mainly because if epic released something that f**ked up a bunch of phones the blame will just get shafted onto the device makers.

Epic did try to make its own phones a few years ago, by partnering with OnePlus, but Google threatened to to pull Google Play Services from all of OnePlus's phones if they went through. That came up in the recent Google antitrust lawsuit that Google lost. So its not as simple as Epic just making its own devices, being unable to partner with more established hardware companies because of Google's monopoly abuse makes it a lot harder for Epic to create a device.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Sp, I just want to say that I hate epic game store. That said, I 100% believe in their fight because the one thing that pisses me off about my Samsung phone is that I can't sideload whatever I want.

It's MY DEVICE, I paid for it, I own the hardware. While I might not own the software, I should be free to install whatever I want on my hardware. Stopping me from installing what OS I want in hardware that I paid for is more insulting than dealing with app stores.

The app store problem is a symptom of a large problem, we don't own what we pay for.

- Couldn't agree more.

Its silly on Google's part too, look at what is happening on PC.

The "Steam Monopoly" even when there are dozens of alt store options (INCLUDING MICROSOFT'S OWN STORE!) just goes to show that when consumers find something they like, its really tough to get them to change their habits even when there are no barriers in the way.

If Google opens up marketplace competition... 99% of downloads will still happen through the Play store. Most people really don't have a reason to go somewhere else.

And frankly if Epic handles their phone store like they've handled EGS, Google really has nothing to worry about.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

As the devils advocate, I see why he's griping but also think until epic makes their own phone/console or whatever theyll be suing everybody forever.

the average joe is a dummy, these phones are so locked down because of that fact, epic wants to do alot with someone elses stuff and google, samsung and apple are gonna fight nonstop to not allow it, mainly because if epic released something that f**ked up a bunch of phones the blame will just get shafted onto the device makers.

Devil's advocate to the devil's advocate: Operating systems are a crucial part of infrastructure. It'd be like saying "well go build your own utility/road/city" to a company trying to set up shop next to pre established businesses.

And Google already HAS the controls. third party apps are by default disabled, and by enabling them you agree to free the manufacturer from any liability from you screwing the device up. The auto blocker is a duplicitous system that serves no purpose other then to annoy people trying to install third party apps.

 

[kira setsu]

Devil's advocate to the devil's advocate: Operating systems are a crucial part of infrastructure. It'd be like saying "well go build your own utility/road/city" to a company trying to set up shop next to pre established businesses.

And Google already HAS the controls. third party apps are by default disabled, and by enabling them you agree to free the manufacturer from any liability from you screwing the device up. The auto blocker is a duplicitous system that serves no purpose other then to annoy people trying to install third party apps.

isn't the main issue that epic wants its store on these phones so players can pay them directly? and not have to use google play services or apple or whatever samsung has instead, which will take a cut.

if thats the case then yeah, its a bit messed up for everyone, epic wants to borrow your car, then return it with no gas pretty much, you dont get to use someone elses property and not pay any dues of some sort.

although the property part is sketchy, google/sammy etc built the phone, so they own that, but once you buy it, its yours...so youre free to install whatever(allegedly)....but epic is still just piggybacking on everyone elses work imho.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

isn't the main issue that epic wants its store on these phones so players can pay them directly? and not have to use google play services or apple or whatever samsung has instead, which will take a cut.

No, the issue is that Google/Samsung are trying to lock down their devices so you are forced to use their walled garden. This is what we call a monopoly.

if thats the case then yeah, its a bit messed up for everyone, epic wants to borrow your car, then return it with no gas pretty much, you dont get to use someone elses property and not pay any dues of some sort.

That is an atrocious comparison. EPIC is not "using" a car and leaving it with no gas. They are writing software for a device and want to be able to use their own storefront, which is ALLOWED on these operating systems. Google/Samsung are attempting to shut this down.

I imagine you use a PC, right? Do you use any software from outside the windows store? Hopefully not, you wouldnt want to "piggyback" on MS's hard work, right?

although the property part is sketchy, google/sammy etc built the phone, so they own that, but once you buy it, its yours...so youre free to install whatever(allegedly)....but epic is still just piggybacking on everyone elses work imho.

Android is open source. Dont know if you realize that. By making an android game, and not using google's tore, they are doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of "piggybacking". They are avoiding all the proprietary google maintained software and publishing for the open source OS itself.

Operating systems are not something that should be locked down. Microsoft does not control what software you can install on your PC. Google should not be able to stop you installing a game. Hell even macOS isnt this restrictive. they are an infrastructure, that people should be free to use on the device THEY PAID FOR.

There's nothing sketchy about this. Literally every OS outside of iOS has worked like this, and it's one of iOS' weakest points, one the EU is forcibly opening up. Google has the option to allow third party apps already, placing roadblocks and duplicate menus to slow people down is a blatant abuse of power and serves o other purpose thent o try and force users into the Google owned store.

 

[Dreadcthulhu]

isn't the main issue that epic wants its store on these phones so players can pay them directly? and not have to use google play services or apple or whatever samsung has instead, which will take a cut.

if thats the case then yeah, its a bit messed up for everyone, epic wants to borrow your car, then return it with no gas pretty much, you dont get to use someone elses property and not pay any dues of some sort.

although the property part is sketchy, google/sammy etc built the phone, so they own that, but once you buy it, its yours...so youre free to install whatever(allegedly)....but epic is still just piggybacking on everyone elses work imho.

That's the thing through - once Samsung/Google sell a phone, it is not theirs anymore; it belongs to whoever purchased it. That is what buying and selling means. To use your car analogy, if I were to buy a Prius and rented it out, should I get all the money from renting it, or should Toyota get a cut? If I wanted to buy a third-party stereo and install it in the Prius, should Toyota be able to stop me, the Prius owner, from doing so? Or get a cut from the stereo maker? If I wanted to install the Epic game store on the infotainment system so the kids could play Fortnite while the car is parked, should Toyota be able to stop me, or take a cut?

Yes, the Epic store does piggy back on other's work, but so do tons of other products. It is completely normal to buy things that add on and work with other products, without the original product maker getting a cut. What Samsung/Google (and others are trying to do) is interfere with that normal process and insert themselves as rent-seeking middlemen.