Intel may be cancelling its Arrow Lake "Refresh" desktop CPUs

[DragonSlayer101]

Rumor mill: Intel has reportedly canceled its Arrow Lake-S Refresh desktop CPU family and will now focus on Nova Lake as the successor to the Core Ultra 200 lineup that's set to arrive in the coming weeks. While the Arrow Lake Refresh series was initially slated for a 2025 launch, Nova Lake is now expected to debut in 2026.

Intel is expected to launch new Arrow Lake desktop CPUs in October, alongside compatible Z890 motherboards. The new desktop lineup will consist of at least six K-series unlocked processors for overclockers and DIY enthusiasts including the Core Ultra 9 285K/KF, Core Ultra 7 265K/KF, and Core Ultra 5 245K/KF.

According to Intel's roadmap, these Arrow Lake-S CPUs (S is for desktops, we know, it's confusing) were to be followed by Arrow Lake-S Refresh a year after. Unlike previous "Refresh" families, Arrow Lake-S Refresh was expected to bring larger chips with more cores – up to 8 performance cores and 32 efficiency cores in a single chip (an 8P+32E configuration). However, if the latest rumors are accurate, Intel might keep Arrow Lake-S around for the next two years to compete with Ryzen until Nova Lake arrives in 2026.

In a discussion with a fellow forum member about Intel's future plans, Chiphell tipster Panzerlied claimed Arrow Lake-S Refresh has been canceled. Intel's strategy now appears to focus on competing with AMD using the original Arrow Lake lineup over the next few years until Nova Lake launches sometime in 2026.

Panzerlied did not provide further details, including why Intel might cancel the Arrow Lake Refresh. However, it's worth noting that he specifically mentioned the cancellation of the S-series for desktops, suggesting there is still a possibility that the H and HX variants for laptops could reach the market. That said, this remains an unverified rumor, so, as always, take it with a generous pinch of salt for now.

ARL-S Refresh is cancelled pic.twitter.com/NncQl3lDJS

– Everest (@Olrak29_) September 23, 2024

As for Nova Lake, rumors suggest that the processors will be compatible with the LGA 1851 socket. This means those looking to upgrade from Arrow Lake may not need to purchase a new motherboard. While Intel has yet to confirm this, maintaining LGA 1851 for Nova Lake rather than introducing a new socket could help the company compete more effectively with AMD and save enthusiasts some cash.

Older rumors about Nova Lake indicated it would feature Panther Cove P-cores and Arctic Wolf E-cores, but a more recent report suggests it may instead include "Royal Core" P-cores. Additionally, Intel is reportedly developing the "Cobra Core" CPU architecture for future products, such as Beast Lake.

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Intel may be cancelling its Arrow Lake "Refresh" desktop CPUs

 

[seeprime]

Intel seems so confused these days.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

32 e cores. JFC just call it an atom at that point.

Eventually Intel will realize that we want more P cores right? Right?

 

[HardReset]

32 e cores. JFC just call it an atom at that point.

Eventually Intel will realize that we want more P cores right? Right?

E-cores help much more on benchmarks. So why you would need more P-cores?

 

[Theinsanegamer]

E-cores help much more on benchmarks. So why you would need more P-cores?

Because as fun as it is, I want to play more than just cinebench : )

 

[HardReset]

Because as fun as it is, I want to play more than just cinebench : )

But games don't need more than 8 fast cores. Both AMD and Intel agree.

 

[poshflamingos]

Eventually Intel will realize that we want more P cores right? Right?

No, we don't. Why would you? Games don't scale to that many cores, you see very little benefit in going above 6 cores in games, and basically zero benefit in going above 8. Instead of asking for more cores you'd be better off asking for 6/8 cores chips with higher clocks and/or more cache then, because those are the things that actually impact game performance.

There are extremely rare exceptions, like simulation games such as City Skylines, or turn-based strategy games, which do benefit from more cores because they depend on lots number crunching. Except that, in this case, these games do in fact benefit more from lots of smaller E cores than they do from a few more big P cores, because this kind of number crunching is exactly what the E cores excel at.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

32 e cores. JFC just call it an atom at that point.

Eventually Intel will realize that we want more P cores right? Right?

Once Royal cores ship, there will be no P or E cores. It'll be a unified core.

 

[Felusy]

This was all rumours in the first place.

Can't wait to see Arrow Lake reviews in a few weeks. Intel with node advantage, using TSMC 3nm, this will be good. Benchmark leaks already look solid and power draw went down massively.

Intel has been competiting with node disadvantage for years and still delivered competitive performance. Lets see what Intel can do with node advantage, shall we?

My 7800X3D is replaced with a 285K or 9800X3D in the next few months, is all im saying.

 

[Felusy]

32 e cores. JFC just call it an atom at that point.

Eventually Intel will realize that we want more P cores right? Right?

Why do you need more P-cores? Games don't need more than 8 and e-cores scale better for productivity tasks.

Higher clockspeed and more cache is what you want for gaming, while having 6-8 p-cores.

 

[Felusy]

E-cores help much more on benchmarks. So why you would need more P-cores?

E-cores helps in everything outside of gaming:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-14900k/28.html

"Faster in productivity than any other AMD CPU"

E-cores can even handle background tasks while the P-cores are reserved solely for the game.

 

[Puiu]

I guess Intel saw what happened with Zen5 and said they don't want to do something similar. The "refresh" was most likely just a small upgrade (probably just a 200Mhz clock speed increase)

 

[HardReset]

E-cores helps in everything outside of gaming:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-14900k/28.html

"Faster in productivity than any other AMD CPU"

E-cores can even handle background tasks while the P-cores are reserved solely for the game.

Stop posting stupid remarks from amateur sites. Practically Intel is slower because thread director tends to put background tasks on E-cores. Everyone that has used Intel hybrid CPUs on work environment knows this. Amateur level benchmarks don't tell anything.

Also remember that those benchmarks were done with settings that broke CPU.

 

[Felusy]

Stop posting stupid remarks from amateur sites. Practically Intel is slower because thread director tends to put background tasks on E-cores. Everyone that has used Intel hybrid CPUs on work environment knows this. Amateur level benchmarks don't tell anything.

Also remember that those benchmarks were done with settings that broke CPU.

Techpowerup amateur level? Hahahahahaha

Keep living in denial, no-one cares. Arrow Lake incoming on 3nm in a few weeks, AMD is on 5nm. Tables have turned. AMD cheaped out. AMD also left high-end GPU market because they can't compete. AMD getting destroyed in the AI market as well.

AMD is wasting money left and right chasing AI marketshare, loosing other markets in the process, and the most funny thing about this, is that AMD has no chance of beating Nvidia, which are years ahead and have 100 times the funds. Nvidia launches 3nm AI cards in 2025.

Intel stock increased by 10-15% in a week. 25 billion USD funding went in. Intel is too big and was able to afford 3nm long before AMD.

Intel will split from the fabs soon, which is the only reason Intel has been in trouble in the first place. AMD is fabless, living the easy life, and still can't afford using TSMC 3N for Ryzen 9000 and Radeon 8000. Sigh.

Zen 5 has been a massive failure. Brand new arch. Built ground up. Delivered next to nothing. Intels timing is perfect.

 

[HardReset]

Techpowerup amateur level? Hahahahahaha


Keep living in denial, no-one cares. Arrow Lake incoming on 3nm in a few weeks, AMD is on 5nm. Tables have turned. AMD cheaped out. AMD also left high-end GPU market because they can't compete. AMD getting destroyed in the AI market as well.

AMD is wasting money left and right for AI, loosing other marks in the process, and the most funny thing about this, is that AMD has no chance of beating Nvidia, which are years ahead and have 100 times the funds.

You said Phoronix is amateur level, so...

AMD will still dominate even they have just 5nm. Intel cannot beat even with node advantage, haha. Again, AMD did not see high end customer GPU market as profitable so they decided to put funds elsewhere.

 

[Felusy]

You said Phoronix is amateur level, so...

AMD will still dominate even they have just 5nm. Intel cannot beat even with node advantage, haha. Again, AMD did not see high end customer GPU market as profitable so they decided to put funds elsewhere.

Phoronix is unknown, amateurs. Techpowerup is the biggest hardware site today. Difference? Yeah, for non-Fanboys.

Lunar and Arrow Lake beats AMD easily in leaked benchmarks.

AMD left high-end GPU market because they were selling no GPUs due to being bad. Bad raster perf. Bad upscaling. Bad framegen. Bad RT. Terribe PT. Wonky drivers. Wonky features. Anti Lag + got people VAC banned and Reflex destroys it.

Thats reality for you. Zen 5 has been a massive failure, another fact.

 

[HardReset]

Phoronix is unknown, amateurs. Techpowerup is the biggest hardware site today. Difference? Yeah, for non-Fanboys.

Lunar and Arrow Lake beats AMD easily in leaked benchmarks.

AMD left high-end GPU market because they were selling no GPUs due to being bad. Bad raster perf. Bad upscaling. Bad framegen. Bad RT. Terribe PT. Wonky drivers. Wonky features. Anti Lag + got people VAC banned and Reflex destroys it.

Thats reality for you. Zen 5 has been a massive failure, another fact.

Yeah, your "knowledge" is all that matters.

On servers? That's what really matters and that's because Intel is in trouble.

AMD left market because they didn't want to waste money. Blaming AMD for VAC bans is one of stupidest things I have ever heard.

Zen5 is massive success, but some just don't realize that using outdated software is a failure.

 

[Felusy]

Yeah, your "knowledge" is all that matters.

On servers? That's what really matters and that's because Intel is in trouble.

AMD left market because they didn't want to waste money. Blaming AMD for VAC bans is one of stupidest things I have ever heard.

Zen5 is massive success, but some just don't realize that using outdated software is a failure.

Intel still has the majority of Enterprise marketshare

Laptop sales are more important really, higher margins. People buy limited numbers of servers, but 1000s of laptops. Intel dominate completely here. Lenovo sells 95% Intel based laptops.

Zen 5 is a massive succes? LMAO - Boxes are literally collecting dust because no-one buys them, even after a pricedrop within weeks after launch.

AMD is chasing AI but will never touch Nvidia here. Loosing gaming GPU market and now soon consumer CPU market in the process.

Good luck to you AMD fanboy. Dark years are coming for AMD unless Lisa Su is fired. Chasing AI GPU market will kill them.

Steam HW Survey

Nvidia and Intel dominate.

AMD don't have a GPU listed in top 25, only iGPU is listed. Yeah big success...

All AMD cards listed in top 50 is cheap SKUs, sub 250 dollars options. No people with money buys an AMD GPU these days. Starting to miss ATi, atleast ATi could compete.

 

[zamroni111]

32 e cores. JFC just call it an atom at that point.

Eventually Intel will realize that we want more P cores right? Right?

8 p cores in order not to lose to amd in gaming
32 e cores in order not lose to amd in multi cores benchmark

 

[zamroni111]

E-cores help much more on benchmarks. So why you would need more P-cores?

for gaming

 

[zamroni111]

E-cores helps in everything outside of gaming:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-14900k/28.html

"Faster in productivity than any other AMD CPU"

E-cores can even handle background tasks while the P-cores are reserved solely for the game.

yet excel is single core even though the sheet has 1 million records

 

[Felusy]

yet excel is single core even though the sheet has 1 million records

Intel wins in pretty much all app tests in that review, all while using 10nm, which is closer to 12nm TSMC in reality

Lets see what Intel can do with 3nm TSMC shall we?

AMD did a huge mistake going with 5nm again and same 7nm IO die, luckily 3D cache can probably save 9000X3D in gaming and hopefully 9800X3D takes the crown but Arrow Lake will offer vastly better all-round performance and come close in gaming

Both Lunar and Arrow Lake looks to be very good and power issues have vanished.

AMD probably have to rush forward Zen 6 at 3nm to compete. Zen 5 is already a massive failure and prices will keep dropping till it sells.

 

[zamroni111]

Intel still has the majority of Enterprise marketshare

Laptop sales are more important really, higher margins. People buy limited numbers of servers, but 1000s of laptops. Intel dominate completely here. Lenovo sells 95% Intel based laptops.

Zen 5 is a massive succes? LMAO - Boxes are literally collecting dust because no-one buys them, even after a pricedrop within weeks after launch.

AMD is chasing AI but will never touch Nvidia here. Loosing gaming GPU market and now soon consumer CPU market in the process.

Good luck to you AMD fanboy. Dark years are coming for AMD unless Lisa Su is fired. Chasing AI GPU market will kill them.

Steam HW Survey

Nvidia and Intel dominate.

AMD don't have a GPU listed in top 25, only iGPU is listed. Yeah big success...

All AMD cards listed in top 50 is cheap SKUs, sub 250 dollars options. No people with money buys an AMD GPU these days. Starting to miss ATi, atleast ATi could compete.

if amd didn't sell epyc zen3 at $100 per core, we would still bear the cost of $400 per core of xeon.
since zen3, epyc beats xeon in single core and multi core benchmark

 

[Felusy]

if amd didn't sell epyc zen3 at $100 per core, we would still bear the cost of $400 per core of xeon.
since zen3, epyc beats xeon in single core and multi core benchmark

Intel still dominate in all markets

AMD Hits Record High Share in x86 Desktops and Servers in Q1 2024

www.anandtech.com

Enterprise / Server = Intel 76.4%

AMD stagnated in several markets, especially mobile, which is a huge market. Most companies spends vastly more money on buying laptops than actual servers.

AMD had a good run tho. Mostly thanks to Intel being stuck at 14 and 10nm, which is now a thing of the past. 3nm next, then 18A and beyond.

 

[HardReset]

Intel still dominate in all markets

AMD Hits Record High Share in x86 Desktops and Servers in Q1 2024

www.anandtech.com

Enterprise / Server = Intel 76.4%

AMD stagnated in several markets, especially mobile, which is a huge market. Most companies spends vastly more money on buying laptops than actual servers.

AMD had a good run tho. Mostly thanks to Intel being stuck at 14 and 10nm, which is now a thing of the past. 3nm next, then 18A and beyond.

FYI, Intel is rapidly losing enterprise market share. Why you think Intel is rapidly losing value?

Intel using TSMC instead own fabs just shows how far behind Intel is. Desperate move.