People are selling NFTs featuring stolen images of influencers and YouTube gaming stars

captaincranky

Posts: 18,529   +7,370
What does that have to do with what I said?
Forgive me, I was trying to enlighten you about the illegality of the use stolen images, much less trying to pass them off as, "NFTs".

I see the error of my ways. I'll try explaining it yo my cat laying on the desk in front of me. If I have no, or limited, success with him, maybe I'll buy myself a cabbage.
Copied, not stolen.
Wrong.

Think real hard, why is that section of the law called "copyright". The content producer has all the rights to copy and distribute their content. Unless you created that content, you have NONE
 
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NightAntilli

Posts: 892   +1,171
you still don't own the image if you just buy the nft
Alright. Completely different mindset;
What if you legally tie NFTs to real estate? You can't copy paste a building. You eliminate all the paper work, and it becomes a free market with verified owners with full immutability.

Still no use for NFTs?

I think it's wonderful that YOU took all the time to "copy and paste" all this "information" about NFTs. Great initiative.

However, you have to be the actual owner of the object you're creating the token from.

With a copyright violation as blatant as the topic of this thread, you might even be able to petition the federal court for summary judgement.-
I'm not saying there aren't problems with NFTs. That doesn't mean that all of them are a scam or that they have no use.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 18,529   +7,370
Alright. Completely different mindset;
What if you legally tie NFTs to real estate? You can't copy paste a building. You eliminate all the paper work, and it becomes a free market with verified owners with full immutability.

Still no use for NFTs?
Thank god this "NFT" bullsh!t hasn't hit the real estate market. This statement is beyond insane, and leaves common sense in the dust.

"Look ma, no deed", the only way to prove I own this building is through some internet block chain bullsh!t. I know, old fashioned deeds and the recording thereof is just too old fashioned for someone like yourself, who firmly believes that cyberspace is real, and physical ownership is "passe'".
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 892   +1,171
Thank god this "NFT" bullsh!t hasn't hit the real estate market. This statement is beyond insane, and leaves common sense in the dust.

"Look ma, no deed", the only way to prove I own this building is through some internet block chain bullsh!t. I know, old fashioned deeds and the recording thereof is just too old fashioned for someone like yourself, who firmly believes that cyberspace is real, and physical ownership is "passe'".
It inevitably will, because doing transactions on the blockchain is faster, cheaper and more secure than having to go through a notary.

I hope you understand that owning a house because of a notary note is exactly the same thing as holding a house through a confirmed blockchain state. The difference is that the notary is widely excepted and NFTs are new. NFTs make notaries obsolete. It just takes time for adoption to take place.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,468   +4,396
TechSpot Elite
Alright. Completely different mindset;
What if you legally tie NFTs to real estate? You can't copy paste a building. You eliminate all the paper work, and it becomes a free market with verified owners with full immutability.

Still no use for NFTs?


I'm not saying there aren't problems with NFTs. That doesn't mean that all of them are a scam or that they have no use.
You can't do anything "legally" with NFTs. You are buying a place in the blockchain associated with an idea, nothing more, nothing less.

At best you could say that you are buying something and the buyer is throwing in an NFT as a bonus gift. But you still need to actually buy that object, you can't just pay for the NFT.

Even in your example there is still no use for an NFT. NFTs don't eliminate any paperwork. An NFT doesn't allow anyone to verify ownership since that's not what it is.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 892   +1,171
You can't do anything "legally" with NFTs.
Yet.

You are buying a place in the blockchain associated with an idea, nothing more, nothing less.
When you go to the notary, you're buying a place in the registry with an idea, nothing more, nothing less.

At best you could say that you are buying something and the buyer is throwing in an NFT as a bonus gift. But you still need to actually buy that object, you can't just pay for the NFT.

Even in your example there is still no use for an NFT. NFTs don't eliminate any paperwork. An NFT doesn't allow anyone to verify ownership since that's not what it is.
How does a notary note verify ownership? How is it in any way connected to your house?
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,529   +7,370
How does a notary note verify ownership? How is it in any way connected to your house?
Do you own any property? Have you ever tried to buy any property?

There actually a "closing ceremony" with lawyers, representatives from the recorder of deeds, and oh yes, a notary. As a group, they constitute, "witnesses". and create verifiable records, without a bunch of your fantasy blockchain bullsh!t.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,468   +4,396
TechSpot Elite
Yet.


When you go to the notary, you're buying a place in the registry with an idea, nothing more, nothing less.


How does a notary note verify ownership? How is it in any way connected to your house?
Those are just wild comparisons that make zero sense. You don't even understand what a notarized note is, how they're made and what laws surround such documents.

Next time, try to use an argument that has some basis in reality. You have NO idea just how much paperwork was required for me to buy my apartment. Months of me pulling my hair out to finish the deal.

An NFT is a child's toy that promises the world, but just gives you nothing at all. Why are you buying an NFT if, by your own words, you can't do anything legally with them? Do you like paying for something that gives absolutely nothing in return?
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 892   +1,171
Do you own any property? Have you ever tried to buy any property?
Of course I do.

There actually a "closing ceremony" with lawyers, representatives from the recorder of deeds, and oh yes, a notary. As a group, they constitute, "witnesses". and create verifiable records, without a bunch of your fantasy blockchain bullsh!t.
All those intermediaries, which is what they are, are all superseded with blockchain tech and smart contracts. A registration on the blockchain gives pretty much infinite witnesses and immutable records.

What you're basically arguing is that because an e-mail doesn't have a stamp and approval of the post office, e-mails have no value.

Those are just wild comparisons that make zero sense. You don't even understand what a notarized note is, how they're made and what laws surround such documents.

Next time, try to use an argument that has some basis in reality. You have NO idea just how much paperwork was required for me to buy my apartment. Months of me pulling my hair out to finish the deal.
That, more than anything else, shows the inefficiency of the current system.

An NFT is a child's toy that promises the world, but just gives you nothing at all. Why are you buying an NFT if, by your own words, you can't do anything legally with them? Do you like paying for something that gives absolutely nothing in return?
We couldn't do anything legally with torrents when it was just released either. That will be the extent of my arguments regarding your legal argument.

You're all proving that you don't understand NFTs, without knowing it. And that's fine. In time, you will come to understand.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,529   +7,370
You're all proving that you don't understand NFTs, without knowing it. And that's fine. In time, you will come to understand.
And you know it all. (y) (Y) Hopefully we'll catch up one day,

And also hopefully, you'll buy a house using blockchain, and somebody will hack it out from under yoiu

Now, why don'y you run along the chain, and see if you can find that 34 million?
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,468   +4,396
TechSpot Elite
Of course I do.


All those intermediaries, which is what they are, are all superseded with blockchain tech and smart contracts. A registration on the blockchain gives pretty much infinite witnesses and immutable records.

What you're basically arguing is that because an e-mail doesn't have a stamp and approval of the post office, e-mails have no value.


That, more than anything else, shows the inefficiency of the current system.


We couldn't do anything legally with torrents when it was just released either. That will be the extent of my arguments regarding your legal argument.

You're all proving that you don't understand NFTs, without knowing it. And that's fine. In time, you will come to understand.
I like how you are trying to make us understand what NFTs are by comparing the situation with torrents, something that is completely different and has nothing in common with torrents.

But let's try to understand your way of thinking.

What you are trying to suggest is that, in the future (we don't know yet when), the technology behind NFTs will be useful for something (kinda like torrents). That is correct, but... and this is a big butt... what does the future have to do with today? The current use of NFTs is useless and it's just a scam. You are trying to convince people to buy NFTs today, to buy something useless, because the tech behind NFTs will be used in the future... that's insane dude.

Try to explain to us, again and again, NFTs. And how buying something today will help me in the future.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 892   +1,171
And you know it all. (y) (Y) Hopefully we'll catch up one day,
I don't know it all. And I don't have to know it all to know when I have above average knowledge on a specific subject. If you studied astrophysics, you probably know more about astronomy than I do. I have been participating in crypto for years, I know the pitfalls, weaknesses, problems, limits and more. I have an above average understanding of the technology and how it works, and am currently even getting a Master's degree in blockchain and digital currencies.
But people read stupid headlines and think they have a good understanding of crypto, repeating baseless arguments without even knowing the basics of the technology.

And also hopefully, you'll buy a house using blockchain, and somebody will hack it out from under yoiu
The blockchain cannot be hacked. Hacks happen either at centralized exchanges, I.e. off-chain, or, they happen through bugs in new protocols.

I like how you are trying to make us understand what NFTs are by comparing the situation with torrents, something that is completely different and has nothing in common with torrents.
Actually... Torrents were one of the inspirations for the technology. In a way, the blockchain is shared in a similar way to torrents, P2P, and everyone is free to connect to the network. The difference is that there needs to be a mathematical proof in the middle to avoid things like double spending, which is what the miners do.

But let's try to understand your way of thinking.

What you are trying to suggest is that, in the future (we don't know yet when), the technology behind NFTs will be useful for something (kinda like torrents). That is correct, but... and this is a big butt... what does the future have to do with today?
There have been some good uses already, even if the majority are cash grabs. Like most free new emerging markets, it will experience growing pains.

The current use of NFTs is useless and it's just a scam. You are trying to convince people to buy NFTs today, to buy something useless, because the tech behind NFTs will be used in the future... that's insane dude.
Oh I'm not trying to convince people to buy NFTs today. I'm simply saying that not all the NFTs are a scam and that they can bring real value to the world.

NFTs will bring real value to digital items very soon, at least. Sure. You can copy an image, or right click save it. But imagine the rarest weapon in an MMO like WoW being tied to your crypto account, and being able to sell it for real money. That's another use for it. You can't just right click save such a digital item like you do with a jpeg.
This is simply the first iteration of it. And there are gaming projects that are going in that direction. If you go into a few now, you have a big chance of gaining a significant amount of money. Rather than spending $70 on a new game that has been made, why not buy a $70 NFT for a game in development, where you can potentially sell the NFT for $700 later?
But like all investments, don't invest what you can't afford to lose, and don't invest in anything you don't understand.

Try to explain to us, again and again, NFTs. And how buying something today will help me in the future.
See the example above. I'll go on a limb and drop some names. NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE.

Illuvium
Cryowar
Vulcan Forged
Yield Guild Games
Aurory
Star Atlas
Thetan Arena

All the ones against crypto have no idea that it is revolutionizing gaming right now. Play to Earn is going to be huge. Want a working example? Look up Axie Infinity.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,529   +7,370
Rather than spending $70 on a new game that has been made, why not buy a $70 NFT for a game in development, where you can potentially sell the NFT for $700
You should talk this over with Chris Roberts. Instead of blatantly taking people's money for "ships", he can sell them an NFT. That way he can say with a straight face, "this will be worth money some day".
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 892   +1,171
You should talk this over with Chris Roberts. Instead of blatantly taking people's money for "ships", he can sell them an NFT. That way he can say with a straight face, "this will be worth money some day".
Not everything sold as an NFT will increase in value. It must have a function to be of true value.

In any case, dropping this here too;
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 892   +1,171
@NightAntilli I "copy pasted" this quote from @pcnthuziast
It certainly does generate a lot of food for thought about NFTs,
How are NFTs corporate fever dreams, when as a user, you can be a partial owner of a game? That means you're not only participating, but also profiting from the success of it...

Can they be used for illicit practices? Yes. But so can a knife, a car and money. That doesn't make them inherently bad.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,468   +4,396
TechSpot Elite
How are NFTs corporate fever dreams, when as a user, you can be a partial owner of a game? That means you're not only participating, but also profiting from the success of it...

Can they be used for illicit practices? Yes. But so can a knife, a car and money. That doesn't make them inherently bad.
When you buy an NFT you do not become a partial owner of the game. PERIOD.

You are not profiting from it beyond selling the NFT to the next fool who actually thinks he'll own a part of a game.

I don't get why you keep trying to convince people otherwise.

Here, read this:

Direct quotes from the article:
"When someone buys an NFT from the creator, they obtain ownership in the sense that it becomes their property. After all, an NFT is a digital certificate of ownership representing the purchase of a digital asset, traceable on the blockchain.

But the NFT holder does not have any other rights to the work. This includes those offered under copyright law, such as the right of communication to the public (in other words, making the asset available to the world at large), or the rights of adaptation or reproduction."

"Buyers therefore need to be clear that the main reasons to buy an NFT are the speculative investment and the pleasure of having something unique from an admired artist, brand, sports team, or whatever. Unless the terms allow it, buyers will only have a limited ability to share the creative work on public platforms or to reproduce it and make it available for others."
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 892   +1,171
When you buy an NFT you do not become a partial owner of the game. PERIOD.
Depends on the game. If the developers are a DAO, you definitely can. But it is fair to say that the majority are not, so there is that.

Direct quotes from the article:
"When someone buys an NFT from the creator, they obtain ownership in the sense that it becomes their property. After all, an NFT is a digital certificate of ownership representing the purchase of a digital asset, traceable on the blockchain.

But the NFT holder does not have any other rights to the work. This includes those offered under copyright law, such as the right of communication to the public (in other words, making the asset available to the world at large), or the rights of adaptation or reproduction."

"Buyers therefore need to be clear that the main reasons to buy an NFT are the speculative investment and the pleasure of having something unique from an admired artist, brand, sports team, or whatever. Unless the terms allow it, buyers will only have a limited ability to share the creative work on public platforms or to reproduce it and make it available for others."
"Rights" and "copyright" are a concept from the traditional legal system. Or more accurately, they are systems that have been put in place because we did not have the technology to enforce/execute these things automatically. Now the technology can. The only thing that is missing is the adoption of it.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,529   +7,370
"Rights" and "copyright" are a concept from the traditional legal system. Or more accurately, they are systems that have been put in place because we did not have the technology to enforce/execute these things automatically. Now the technology can. The only thing that is missing is the adoption of it.
NO. The "Digital Millennium Copyright Act", was created specifically created ti control the digital manipulation and distribution of copyrighted works

So yes, there is legislation targeted directly at digital media. Enough with the bullsh!t already. Have a look:

I

If you want to keep harping on the comcept that "block chain is going to save the world, and NFTs have some actual value, there is the 1st amendment to fall back on. But, you're about to lose your audience.

We seem to be inadvertently, handing you the soapbox to do so.
 
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NightAntilli

Posts: 892   +1,171
NO. The "Digital Millennium Copyright Act", was created specifically created ti control the digital manipulation and distribution of copyrighted works

So yes, there is legislation targeted directly at digital media. Enough with the bullsh!t already. Have a look:

https://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf I
If you actually understood what I said, you wouldn't have given me this red herring reply.

If you want to keep harping on the comcept that "block chain is going to save the world, and NFTs have some actual value, there is the 1st amendment to fall back on. But, you're about to lose your audience.

We seem to be inadvertently, handing you the soapbox to do so.
I'll simply leave this here and call it a day.

 

Puiu

Posts: 5,468   +4,396
TechSpot Elite
Depends on the game. If the developers are a DAO, you definitely can. But it is fair to say that the majority are not, so there is that.


"Rights" and "copyright" are a concept from the traditional legal system. Or more accurately, they are systems that have been put in place because we did not have the technology to enforce/execute these things automatically. Now the technology can. The only thing that is missing is the adoption of it.
~"Rights" and "copyright" are a concept from the traditional legal system.~

This is the system in place right now which makes your willingness to buy NFTs even more weird.

Yes, the technology will evolve in the future, but... in the end you failed to explain why should people buy something that gives them nothing today. Why should someone buy that monkey NFT if they don't own the copyright rights to it?

"Play to earn" is the only implementation today that does something, but that's currently not the vast majority of NFTs. I'm assuming that we'll see it more meaningfully being introduced into games in the next 2-3 years.
 
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