Sony says the PS5 Pro uses next-gen AMD ray tracing tech - likely RDNA 4

[Daniel Sims]

Something to look forward to: Improved ray tracing performance is one of the key benefits of Sony's newly unveiled PlayStation 5 Pro console. Prior to its debut, rumors had long suggested that the mid-generation refresh would incorporate ray tracing technology based on AMD's upcoming RDNA 4 GPU architecture. Recent comments from PlayStation designer Mark Cerny have all but confirmed these theories.

In a detailed interview with CNET following the reveal of Sony's PlayStation 5 Pro console, designer Mark Cerny confirmed rumors that the device's ray tracing capabilities are built on an architecture not yet available in AMD's PC graphics cards. While Cerny didn't explicitly name RDNA 4, no other viable candidates are known.

Cerny explained that the PS5 Pro leverages new ray tracing feature sets developed by hardware partner AMD for the next stage of its roadmap. Reports earlier this year suggested that RDNA 4 GPUs, expected to launch in 2025, will significantly enhance ray tracing performance compared to RDNA 3, and especially to the RDNA 2 chips that power the original PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series consoles.

Although recent AMD GPUs have kept pace with Nvidia's RTX products in traditional rasterized lighting, they lag significantly behind in ray tracing performance. For instance, in Black Myth: Wukong, which heavily relies on ray tracing, AMD's $900 flagship Radeon RX 7900 XTX performs worse than Nvidia's mainstream GeForce RTX 4060 Ti – a card that costs half as much and has only one-quarter the memory. However, with ray tracing disabled, the 7900 XTX leaps ahead by two Nvidia product tiers, ranking just below the similarly priced RTX 4080.

AMD's shortcomings in ray tracing are evident in numerous console games that use the technology sparingly. Titles like Cyberpunk 2077 and Alan Wake 2 on PS5 implement little more than ray-traced shadows, while their PC versions offer far more advanced settings, including path tracing. While the PS5 Pro may not entirely close this gap, it will likely support more ray tracing features or improve frame rates in games utilizing the technology.

A July leak suggested RDNA 4 will feature a technique called "Ray Tracing Tri Pair Optimization," which may either double the number of dedicated RT units or allow RT engines to process twice as many ray-triangle intersection calculations per clock cycle. Further optimizations in Bounding Volume Hierarchy could also enhance performance.

Despite these advancements, AMD has confirmed that its next GPU generation will focus on affordable mid-range and mainstream cards, leaving Nvidia's upcoming RTX 5080 and 5090 unchallenged in the high-end segment. Both GPU lineups, along with Intel's Arc Battlemage, are expected to launch in early 2025.

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Sony says the PS5 Pro uses next-gen AMD ray tracing tech – likely RDNA 4

 

[redgarl]

It was already disclose by Mark Cerny that the new AMD APU for PS5 Pro is hosting RDNA 4.

What the hell is this article trying to achieve....

 

[Mr Majestyk]

If we are to believe the rumours RDNA4 8800XT will beat 7900XTX at RT by around 50%. AMD has no choice but to radially improve RT. They released a patent in the last year or so highlighting a new hardware accelerated BVH algorithm that would greatly improve RT. Also AMD's next gen has to bite the bullet and offer hardware accelerated matrix units eg like tensor cores. They won't be able to offer FSR4 otherwise either.

 

[DanteSmith]

It was already disclose by Mark Cerny that the new AMD APU for PS5 Pro is hosting RDNA 4.

What the hell is this article trying to achieve....

It's good to have articles, people distort things.
There are rumors everywhere saying that it is RDNA2 or RDNA3, and PSSR is software-based copied from XESS.

 

[zforgetaboutit]

"in Black Myth: Wukong, which heavily relies on ray tracing"

Because RT can be disabled, there's no "heavily relies" aspect. This text reads somewhat like an nVidia GPU is mandatory.

 

[n3o127]

AMD has confirmed that will be no more RDNA (going unified similar to nVida), now if that means upcoming RDNA 4 is no more, or 8000 series is the clast of RDNA who knows. AMD talking about 8000 series (in leaks) compares to 4000 series nVida, which unless nVidia 5000 series goes backwards like AMD, the 8000 series will compete with 5060 more than top 5070. In reading the last few AMD press releases they are betting on upscaling this next gen, which then will PS5 do much the same, process at low image res and upscale it to help FPS and latency. that will be interesting to see as well.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

AMD has confirmed that will be no more RDNA (going unified similar to nVida), now if that means upcoming RDNA 4 is no more, or 8000 series is the clast of RDNA who knows. AMD talking about 8000 series (in leaks) compares to 4000 series nVida, which unless nVidia 5000 series goes backwards like AMD, the 8000 series will compete with 5060 more than top 5070. In reading the last few AMD press releases they are betting on upscaling this next gen, which then will PS5 do much the same, process at low image res and upscale it to help FPS and latency. that will be interesting to see as well.

Raad the article, they gave the clue in the naming: UDNA6, so there won't be UDNA for several more years. RDNA 5 is already locked in so UDNA won't come out until 2027 at the earliest when we would anticipate RDNA6.

 

[godrilla]

When I hear 2 to 3x rt performance compared to ps5 is like comparing ray tracing performance going from gtx 1080ti to rtx 2080ti.

 

[poshflamingos]

Because RT can be disabled, there's no "heavily relies" aspect.

No, it can't be disabled. BMW is an Unreal Engine 5 game and always uses lumen (UE5's own software ray tracing, same one used in Fortnite), even when you turn the "full ray tracing" option off. That's exactly why that option is labeled like that, instead of just "ray tracing"; because the game always uses some form of ray tracing through lumen, on any graphics preset, even all the way down to "low".

 

[mistyrain]

Finaly someone noticed that. And still people want new, even not yet released tech, to be cheap. Come on ...

 

[mistyrain]

No, it can't be disabled. BMW is an Unreal Engine 5 game and always uses lumen (UE5's own software ray tracing, same one used in Fortnite), even when you turn the "full ray tracing" option off. That's exactly why that option is labeled like that, instead of just "ray tracing"; because the game always uses some form of ray tracing through lumen, on any graphics preset, even all the way down to "low".

BMW is an Unreal Engine 5 - that can be confusing for someone not knowing the game hahaha

 

[WhiteLeaff]

No, it can't be disabled. BMW is an Unreal Engine 5 game and always uses lumen (UE5's own software ray tracing, same one used in Fortnite), even when you turn the "full ray tracing" option off. That's exactly why that option is labeled like that, instead of just "ray tracing"; because the game always uses some form of ray tracing through lumen, on any graphics preset, even all the way down to "low".

Lumen is not considered RT, it's just a software lighting technique and you can also disable it. Calling it RT is obscene.

I'm curious to know if only the hardware dedicated to RT comes from RDNA4

 

[Puiu]

Lumen is not considered RT, it's just a software lighting technique and you can also disable it. Calling it RT is obscene.

I'm curious to know if only the hardware dedicated to RT comes from RDNA4

Lumen is software based ray tracing. It's not as accurate as the hardware RT because the game essentially renders a very low resolution version of the scene and uses that to build a rough lightmap that can be used for global illumination, reflections and shadows. The flickering you sometimes see when using Lumen is because it uses upscaling for the final results.

 

[Eldrach]

AMD has confirmed that will be no more RDNA (going unified similar to nVida), now if that means upcoming RDNA 4 is no more, or 8000 series is the clast of RDNA who knows. AMD talking about 8000 series (in leaks) compares to 4000 series nVida, which unless nVidia 5000 series goes backwards like AMD, the 8000 series will compete with 5060 more than top 5070. In reading the last few AMD press releases they are betting on upscaling this next gen, which then will PS5 do much the same, process at low image res and upscale it to help FPS and latency. that will be interesting to see as well.

Nah, they’ll go for the 5070 performance for sure - just not 5080 and 5090.

 

[poshflamingos]

Lumen is not considered RT, it's just a software lighting technique and you can also disable it. Calling it RT is obscene.

That is very incorrect. Lumen is ray tracing, only at lower quality (I.e. fewer ray casts) than "RTX" ray tracing, and using simplified geometry (distance fields) instead of tracing directly against the 3D meshes of objects (in software mode, that is; in hardware mode it works exactly like any other form of ray tracing, tracing against 3D meshes using BVH structures). In fact if you look at Epic's documentation they literally call it "Lumen ray tracing". And even in software mode it still leverages ray tracing hardware in GPUs if available, which is why turning on software lumen in Fortnite causes a smaller performance hit in RTX cards than it does on GTX cards.

And again, no, it cannot be turned off in Black Myth Wukong. It can be turned off in the engine, but BMW does not give you that option in-game, even the lowest global illumination setting you can choose ("low") still uses software lumen. So the article is right, teh game is heavily reliant on ray tracing because it was built around lumen GI and lumen cannot be turned off in it.

 

[WhiteLeaff]

That is very incorrect. Lumen is ray tracing, only at lower quality (I.e. fewer ray casts) than "RTX" ray tracing, and using simplified geometry (distance fields) instead of tracing directly against the 3D meshes of objects (in software mode, that is; in hardware mode it works exactly like any other form of ray tracing, tracing against 3D meshes using BVH structures). In fact if you look at Epic's documentation they literally call it "Lumen ray tracing". And even in software mode it still leverages ray tracing hardware in GPUs if available, which is why turning on software lumen in Fortnite causes a smaller performance hit in RTX cards than it does on GTX cards.

And again, no, it cannot be turned off in Black Myth Wukong. It can be turned off in the engine, but BMW does not give you that option in-game, even the lowest global illumination setting you can choose ("low") still uses software lumen. So the article is right, teh game is heavily reliant on ray tracing because it was built around lumen GI and lumen cannot be turned off in it.

PLEASE ! - Don't remove Raytracing Reflection (Deprecated) in 5.4

Another example is really simple just an HDRI and an engraving texture with normal i tried to put the quality to the maximum on lumen, as you can see is really blurry , maybe I am doing something wrong, it seems nothing works… it’s really unusable for the kind of job I need. @UE_FlavienP can...

forums.unrealengine.com

I know they say that. But, I don't think Lumen shouldn't be called "ray tracing", it's not similar, nor is quality, precision or computational cost... Satisfactory with global illumination via lumen (medium) runs well on a sub 30w handheld... Check the complaints above.

 

[poshflamingos]

I know they say that. But, I don't think Lumen shouldn't be called "ray tracing", it's not similar, nor is quality, precision or computational cost...

This isn't something that is up for debate, whether it "should" or "shouldn't" be called ray tracing. It literally is ray tracing. It's the exact same calculations and photon simulation algoriths as any other form of ray tracing. The only difference, like I said, is that it uses lower quality (fewer rays) and a form of simplified geometry instead of actual 3D meshes, in order to be lighter to run in software mode. But the rendering itself is actual ray tracing.
You may not like how it looks, and you may think it's worse than other implementations of ray tracing. But none of that changes the fact that lumen is, objectively, literal ray tracing.

 

[Jim Lahey]

I don’t know what to say about RT except that I have yet to see a game that truly “blows my mind” and is convincingly next-generation.

I have had a 3080 and now a 4090, but I really fear that we are entering an era of upscaling and gimmickry that will supercede the real boundary pushing technology.

I suppose a similar trend captivated audio/video with a push toward mobile markets, what with Bluetooth and cell phone taking the place of 7.1 and large screen formats.

 

[rmcrys]

It was already disclose by Mark Cerny that the new AMD APU for PS5 Pro is hosting RDNA 4.

What the hell is this article trying to achieve....

Until Sony or AMD confirm that (or a real product presents it), it’s a rumor. MC it’s just a consultor at Sony and he doesn’t call the shots, he just gives his opinion. So your comment is not entirely correct and a bit too harsh demanding confrontation.

"in Black Myth: Wukong, which heavily relies on ray tracing"

Because RT can be disabled, there's no "heavily relies" aspect. This text reads somewhat like an nVidia GPU is mandatory.

As previously said, the engine uses RT, permanent. It is a software form, lighter if you have no hardware acceleration, more complex if a RT- acceleration is found. Both are as valid as hardware only RT. Your observation cannot be confirmed and in the test I never understood that an Nvidia GPU would be necessary:

- AMD’s RT performance up to RDNA3/3.5 is very bad, if a game or app wants to use it, it must either be very basic or the performance hit is disastrous

- Nvidia 30/40 series are much better than AMD’s and if a software is designed to use RT, obviously it’s a better choice

- if AMD improves a little bit the rasterization performance and gives us Nvidia 40 RT performance or even a little higher, then RT games can flourish

Nvidia until the recent AI card fiasco was “all in” in this market and only wanted the highest end consumer GPU market. AMD had a hard time competing with Nvidia but it can do better: gain market on all other ranges (consoles, low/medium/medium high end) with excellent drivers and prices. More manufacturers will want to use their CPUs and GPUs even if they are not the highest end. Why? Because sales go up not with the highest end complicated to manufacture cards, but with all others.

I have a console with the Z1 Extreme and it’s pretty fast for an APU, no issues with the drivers, very stable and extremely snappy in windows. Well done AMD.

 

[lripplinger]

I hope AMD does indeed make significant inroads on ray tracing. Like I said before, AMD doesn't even work with applications that require Iray or ray tracing (3D model programs like Daz 3D, etc.).

 

[Felusy]

It won't impress without proper Frame Gen tech and consoles usually target 30 fps in these high fidelity modes, where Frame Gen can't be used due to input lag. Frame Gen is amazing when you have 60-80 fps to begin with in Single Player games with focus on Visuals. Can really make a difference in smoothness and input lag is miniscule when done right, just don't use it when you can't sustain 60 fps minimum to begin with.

I don't see the point in rushing RT to consoles when not even desktop AMD cards can do RT? What is the point? I would take 60 fps on console any day over 30 fps with RT. For me, immersion is gone when fps drops to 30. I want 60 on conesole and 120+ on PC.

However, the 40 fps modes on console is much better than 30 fps too. That is 40 fps using 120 Hz TVs, which most new and high-end TVs can (and could for years)

30 fps with motion blur is a sure way to keep me away. Worst experience ever.

 

[Felusy]

Nah, they’ll go for the 5070 performance for sure - just not 5080 and 5090.

Top RDNA4 / Radeon 8000 SKU def won't hit 5070 performance or even come close.

Expect 7900GRE performance at lower power, at most. Top RDNA4 chip is 3840 cores, just like 7800XT. 7900GRE has 5120 cores. RDNA4 will be using TSMC 4N which is 5nm optimized barely any improvements here either.

AMD won't be able to hit 4090/5080 performance for years still and 5090 will be untouchable by AMD till 2028+ probably.

After all AMD gave up on high-end gaming GPUs, officially that is. White flag was raised. It's all about low to mid-end from here. Which is fine, and what AMD should be doing, because they have no chance at beating Nvidia in the high-end market and 99% of people will never pay more than 500 dollars for an AMD GPU and their prime business have always been in the sub 300-400 dollar segment. Cards like 6700XT, 5700XT, RX 580, 570, 480, 470 are among AMDs most popular GPUs in the last 10 years.

 

[ZedRM]

If Sony would do something about how fugly the system itself is maybe more people would care.