Star Citizen crowdfunding reaches half a billion dollars after a decade

Sheer psychological trap and sunk cost mindset. What scares me is people are still looking forward and actually still excited. The game will never be completed because the sheep had already invested so much, and will continue to do so.
 

Hodor

Posts: 251   +182
LOL, they copied the scheme from cancer-research organizations.

"Just keep sending us the money, we're working hard to find the solution".
And the money just keeps pouring. Making it demotivating for them to actually find the solution, because then money would stop pouring. Which is why they never find anything. The problem is always the same. In fact, it's getting worse with time, requiring even more money.

Good job Cloud Imperium Games. Why would only the medical "researchers" get money for nothing, chicks for free?
 

JoeBlobers

Posts: 92   +72
Lol it will be another 10 years and another 500 Million and this scam will still be in Beta.
Publishers made +100 Billions $ in the same period of time. What do we get? Nothing but crap copy-paste, less and less finished.

CB2077 took 8 years, not yet finished a year and half after release despite being a fraction of Squadron 42 + SC.

To those saying it will take another decade. This is just false as CIG is currently implementing with 3.18 the two last key techs: GEN12 and server meshing allowing to add more systems and professions like salvage, repair, large container transportation.

Same for pledge amount to get in. Nothing but 45 or even 35$ depending on event is required to play the game. No subscription required? Everything can be purchased with in game credits.
I do not know any game allowing every one to test the latest build several weeks per year for free.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,881   +4,891
TechSpot Elite
Publishers made +100 Billions $ in the same period of time. What do we get? Nothing but crap copy-paste, less and less finished.

CB2077 took 8 years, not yet finished a year and half after release despite being a fraction of Squadron 42 + SC.

To those saying it will take another decade. This is just false as CIG is currently implementing with 3.18 the two last key techs: GEN12 and server meshing allowing to add more systems and professions like salvage, repair, large container transportation.

Same for pledge amount to get in. Nothing but 45 or even 35$ depending on event is required to play the game. No subscription required? Everything can be purchased with in game credits.
I do not know any game allowing every one to test the latest build several weeks per year for free.
At least we got something. And many games were actually good.

Does completing SC guarantee a good game just because they took their sweet time and billions to make it?

For every CB2077 there is a Witcher 3. Besides, CB2077 is actually good now :)

FYI CB2077 entered pre-production in 2016 (after they finished the Witcher 3 expansions) and came out in 2020. It took 4 years, not 8. In 2012 (the year you are probably referring to) just the concept and pitch was made (kinda like SC had before they started the kickstarter).
 
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Burty117

Posts: 4,603   +2,902
SC feature/scope creep is still a think even now. Weren't they discussing recently about the SQ42 AI needing to have realistic bed physics and behaviour? Like WTF...
Is that feature creep though? Or is that simply developing an immersive game?

I'm sure many games out there started off development with very little thought put into the details like AI, physics for clothes etc... Until it came round to actually developing it.

I think the internet is soo desperate to hate on Star Citizen, words like "scope creep" get mixed in with anything they do now.

It doesn't help that they are soo open with the development of the game, lots of people don't understand the effort required to make a game, let alone one which is having to invent technology to make the vision of the game possible.

I also don't understand why so many people want it to fail, most modern video games are rubbish these days because it's the same thing in a new skin, this is actually something new being developed here.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,881   +4,891
TechSpot Elite
Is that feature creep though? Or is that simply developing an immersive game?

I'm sure many games out there started off development with very little thought put into the details like AI, physics for clothes etc... Until it came round to actually developing it.

I think the internet is soo desperate to hate on Star Citizen, words like "scope creep" get mixed in with anything they do now.

It doesn't help that they are soo open with the development of the game, lots of people don't understand the effort required to make a game, let alone one which is having to invent technology to make the vision of the game possible.

I also don't understand why so many people want it to fail, most modern video games are rubbish these days because it's the same thing in a new skin, this is actually something new being developed here.
I'm pretty sure you can cut half of the things they are doing and nobody would notice. There is one thing to make an immersive game, it's another to do complex simulations of things nobody cares about or features that make zero sense which delay the game by years and years.
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,603   +2,902
I'm pretty sure you can cut half of the things they are doing and nobody would notice. There is one thing to make an immersive game, it's another to do complex simulations of things nobody cares about or features that make zero sense which delay the game by years and years.
I've been following Star Citizen's development for years now, There are many weird and strange features they randomly decide to put on the roadmap.

A pretty famous one is the bartender. They wanted players to be able to just go to a bar and order a drink, the bartender goes away, makes the drink and comes back for you to enjoy.

Sounds simple, but it got delayed for I dunno, maybe a year? I think it was just removed from the roadmap altogether and never released.

Is this because it was just a waste of resources that could be better utilized making missions or designing planets? Or is it because they finished the work and it's been added to Squadron 42 and therefore doesn't need developing for Star Citizen?

We just don't know, but my point is, These little details are developed in parallel with everything else going on, you can only throw so many people at a single problem (Server Meshing, Server Persistence, Gen12 Renderer/Vulkan etc...) before it's just a waste of resources and they might as well be doing something else like creating the finer details, designing ships, building missions.

The reason we (I'm using the collective "we" of most casual gamers) find it weird they're talking about simulating cloth on beds where AI sleep is because we have never been privy to this amount of information and openness in a games development before. It's actually quite normal.

I don't have anything to back this up, but I'd place money when GTA5 was being developed, years before it was ready to be seen outside the studio, someone was working on the animation engine to get characters feet to align with stairs so they moved up and down them realistically. Missions weren't done, buildings hadn't been placed in the world, the road systems hadn't been built out, but I bet someone was working on that anyway. When you have a big work force, working in parallel is vital.

There's plenty of interviews with many studios claiming the first 7 years of development the game is barely playable, 90% of the development the game doesn't even run, it's only when it all comes together at the end, that last 10% do they then show it off before release.

Star Citizen has an open Alpha build to the world that they maintain, that sort of insight is just something we're not used to is my conclusion.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,881   +4,891
TechSpot Elite
I've been following Star Citizen's development for years now, There are many weird and strange features they randomly decide to put on the roadmap.

A pretty famous one is the bartender. They wanted players to be able to just go to a bar and order a drink, the bartender goes away, makes the drink and comes back for you to enjoy.

Sounds simple, but it got delayed for I dunno, maybe a year? I think it was just removed from the roadmap altogether and never released.

Is this because it was just a waste of resources that could be better utilized making missions or designing planets? Or is it because they finished the work and it's been added to Squadron 42 and therefore doesn't need developing for Star Citizen?

We just don't know, but my point is, These little details are developed in parallel with everything else going on, you can only throw so many people at a single problem (Server Meshing, Server Persistence, Gen12 Renderer/Vulkan etc...) before it's just a waste of resources and they might as well be doing something else like creating the finer details, designing ships, building missions.

The reason we (I'm using the collective "we" of most casual gamers) find it weird they're talking about simulating cloth on beds where AI sleep is because we have never been privy to this amount of information and openness in a games development before. It's actually quite normal.

I don't have anything to back this up, but I'd place money when GTA5 was being developed, years before it was ready to be seen outside the studio, someone was working on the animation engine to get characters feet to align with stairs so they moved up and down them realistically. Missions weren't done, buildings hadn't been placed in the world, the road systems hadn't been built out, but I bet someone was working on that anyway. When you have a big work force, working in parallel is vital.

There's plenty of interviews with many studios claiming the first 7 years of development the game is barely playable, 90% of the development the game doesn't even run, it's only when it all comes together at the end, that last 10% do they then show it off before release.

Star Citizen has an open Alpha build to the world that they maintain, that sort of insight is just something we're not used to is my conclusion.

Nothing you said in that long comment changes what I said. The game will continue to have feature creep and will continue to be in perpetual "development". SC is still a decade away from being in a playable state (even close to the state CB2077 was at launch).
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,603   +2,902
Nothing you said in that long comment changes what I said. The game will continue to have feature creep
Yet you've still failed to prove they've had any feature creep in at least the last 5 years I've been following the development. Everything they're delivering was promised before I started following it's development that's for sure.
and will continue to be in perpetual "development".
Aren't all multiplayer games these days? GTA5, Overwatch, Destiny 2, BF2042.
No Mans Sky being an example of a game that basically released in a Beta state and has now recovered it's reputation many years later through development.
SC is still a decade away from being in a playable state (even close to the state CB2077 was at launch).
CP2077 wasn't in that bad a state when it released (speaking from a PC player perspective) I've argued many times that BF2042, GTA: Definitive Edition and No Mans Sky all released in way worse states than CP2077 did.

I don't really know what your definition of a "playable state" is. Right now I can load up the Alpha and play for hours without much trouble.

If you're referring to "playable state" in the sense of being feature complete, I agree, at the current speed of development we'll be lucky to get to a beta state in 10 years.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,881   +4,891
TechSpot Elite
Yet you've still failed to prove they've had any feature creep in at least the last 5 years I've been following the development. Everything they're delivering was promised before I started following it's development that's for sure.

Aren't all multiplayer games these days? GTA5, Overwatch, Destiny 2, BF2042.
No Mans Sky being an example of a game that basically released in a Beta state and has now recovered it's reputation many years later through development.

CP2077 wasn't in that bad a state when it released (speaking from a PC player perspective) I've argued many times that BF2042, GTA: Definitive Edition and No Mans Sky all released in way worse states than CP2077 did.

I don't really know what your definition of a "playable state" is. Right now I can load up the Alpha and play for hours without much trouble.

If you're referring to "playable state" in the sense of being feature complete, I agree, at the current speed of development we'll be lucky to get to a beta state in 10 years.
You are seriously in denial.

If you want to know about feature creep and how bad it is then read this:

Here's a cute example:
"We are working on what we call a Density Manager to manage the objects that get recorded and clean up the lower priority ones (for instance, discarded empty bottles or cans) when too many are in one area, but I suspect we will also have to implement AI Janitors and perhaps even crime stats for littering in Landing Zones like New Babbage or ArcCorp! "

This kind of insane "features" are not needed. Object density is a solved problem in games, you don't need an AI for it. They are trying to build the next gen tesla, when all they need is a good old second hand tractor.

And the reason you don't know about other features they are "introducing" is because they removed the roadmap and any transparency about their work.
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,603   +2,902
You are seriously in denial.

If you want to know about feature creep and how bad it is then read this:

Here's a cute example:
"We are working on what we call a Density Manager to manage the objects that get recorded and clean up the lower priority ones (for instance, discarded empty bottles or cans) when too many are in one area, but I suspect we will also have to implement AI Janitors and perhaps even crime stats for littering in Landing Zones like New Babbage or ArcCorp! "

This kind of insane "features" are not needed. Object density is a solved problem in games, you don't need an AI for it. They are trying to build the next gen tesla, when all they need is a good old second hand tractor.

And the reason you don't know about other features they are "introducing" is because they removed the roadmap and any transparency about their work.
All you've said there is "All other games are doing it like this, just stick to that and don't do anything different".

I don't know if you've noticed but almost all modern games suck at the moment. We need someone thinking outside the box or trying new things.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,881   +4,891
TechSpot Elite
All you've said there is "All other games are doing it like this, just stick to that and don't do anything different".

I don't know if you've noticed but almost all modern games suck at the moment. We need someone thinking outside the box or trying new things.
No, modern games don't "suck". I've played way too many good games in the last decade for you to say such things. Elden Ring is a good example for 2022.

There's thinking outside of the box and then there's what SC is doing: cramming everything in a single box that obviously can't hold that much.

Thinking outside of the box is what games like Stray or The Stanley Parable did.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 19,166   +8,315
Well donors and Star Cirtzen addicts, have I got a deal for you! For just a meager $1,000. dollars, you can add this to your landscape....maybe...kinda sorta....., if all goes well.
Brooklyn-Bridge-Park.jpg


Now here's someone who needs a good fleecing.
60388cc705ddb100195f655b

For only $500.00 dollars more, you can add this cute character to graze in the park by the bridge.
 
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Burty117

Posts: 4,603   +2,902
Well donors and Star Cirtzen addicts, have I got a deal for you! For just a meager $1,000. dollars, you can add this to your landscape....maybe...kinda sorta....., if all goes well.
Brooklyn-Bridge-Park.jpg


Now here's someone who needs a good fleecing.
60388cc705ddb100195f655b

For only $500.00 dollars more, you can add this cute character to graze in the park by the bridge.
Whats your account details. WIll send over this afternoon :cool:
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,270   +7,636
*Sigh* You'd think on a tech forum, people would not be so quick to hop on the "scam bandwagon" and actually think rationally for themselves by now.
Guess not.

I know that, at the very least, if a gov't entity had any confidence that they could prove it's a scam (by definition) it would've been done already, considering the money involved. But it's not a scam, just a slooow-to-materialize investment (with a very playable alpha)...

That said, I do hope they are nearing a launch. And, as funny as this sounds, I hope it's not rushed lol
I am also sure that many will likely be offended by this post, too, but I'm putting it out there anyway.

Unfortunately, I think that most "tech" people these days seem to be those who have figured out how to plug in a GPU to a Motherboard, and those few other components that also need to be plugged into the motherboard to actually get to the point where its a functioning computer. IMO, it takes almost no critical thinking to do that.

And so we have the comments like "I bet these people would buy unfinished cars and homes." :rolleyes:

The thing is, the controversy about SC and SQ-42 have been well-known for ages now. It is clearly in the TOS at least as of the current releases. Anyone who invests anything into the game should be well-aware that there is risk involved. However, like plugging in those components to a motherboard, most people simply do not read TOS and exclaim TL;DR when any TOS is presented.

As a matter of fact, people do buy unfinished homes all the time in the real world and they also sign something akin to a TOS called a contract, and, usually, out of that comes a completed home. People are also buying unfinished cars at this point, because of supply issues; in each case, those people buying know up front that there is only a promise of their purchase being completed after the sale. While it is would be exceptionally rare for something like a home to not be completed, I am sure that it has happened, and people had to take it to court.

And then we get people P&M'ing that they were ripped off because they spent well north of $1K and did not get what they paid for. Unfortunately, expecting critical thinking from people like that who routinely do not read TOS I think is expecting far, far, far too much, IMO.

And so, expecting such people to put in the time to learn what is there of this game including learning how to set it up, get your game controls going, and then explore the already massive world is also, IMO, expecting far, far, far, too much even at the starter pack cost of $45, which essentially beyond class of ship, gets them the same things as those who put in monies far north of $1k.

Its a world of instant gratification - and even "big league" games that go to full release often have massive problems. Instant gratification is the name of the game, and to those who succumb to that "scam" simply do not have the patience to wait it out, or find out, as you did, just how much in the game that is already playable.

All I can say is that RSI must have their legal items in order, as one would think that by this time, it would have been the subject of a civil suit, by an entity similar to the Federal Trade Commission in the US, in at least one country. Yet "ordinary" SC/SQ-42 players have filed civil suits and lost. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/8euozl
At this point, no one really knows whether it will actually release.

All I can say is that if anyone is actually interested in checking it out at this point, avoid putting monies that you cannot afford to throw away, because you may be doing just that - throwing away your money (as if you did not know that already). But with the content already there, IMO, its far from throwing your money away for $45.

I've got $400 in at this point, and I refuse to put in any more. I don't remember when I got to that point, but I think it was about 4-years ago. I've got better things to spend my money on. However, I did that knowing that the game might never be finished. And I don't regret doing so.

/$0.02
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 8,270   +7,636
It doesn't help that they are soo open with the development of the game, lots of people don't understand the effort required to make a game, let alone one which is having to invent technology to make the vision of the game possible.
FWIW - Interesting that you mention having to invent technology to make the vision of the game possible. There's another organization out there that does this, too. It certainly does not mean that RSI will actually finish the game, but, IMO (and I am sure my opinion is not reflected by most who have posted to this thread - I'm sure they will get an 🤣 out of this) think JWST and NASA. NASA has to invent technology all the time, and people rag constantly on them, too, even when their missions are successful.

In fact, if SC/SQ-42 does release, I bet there will be a very vocal crowd out there saying 🤣 but, but, but, but, it took XXX years for them to finish. ;)
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,603   +2,902
All I can say is that if anyone is actually interested in checking it out at this point, avoid putting monies that you cannot afford to throw away, because you may be doing just that - throwing away your money (as if you did not know that already). But with the content already there, IMO, its far from throwing your money away for $45.
Agreed, they do freefly events fairly regularly these days as well, so anyone can try out the Alpha for free for a week. Normally accompanied by some event that allows players to rent different ships to try out.
I've got $400 in at this point, and I refuse to put in any more. I don't remember when I got to that point, but I think it was about 4-years ago. I've got better things to spend my money on. However, I did that knowing that the game might never be finished. And I don't regret doing so.
Oh damn, that's quite a lot! I think I'm somewhere in the neighbourhood of $80, got the starter pack and then upgraded my ship a few years ago.

I like dipping in every quarter and seeing what the latest is. I keep up with the development through their YouTube channel as well, quite fascinating seeing how much effort that's gone into the game. Citizencon in 8 days!

I do wish we'd get a proper update on Squadron 42 though, I know they've said they're being deliberately quiet so not to spoil anything but damn, If they cancelled SQ-42 we'd probably never even notice they're so quiet.
In fact, if SC/SQ-42 does release, I bet there will be a very vocal crowd out there saying 🤣 but, but, but, but, it took XXX years for them to finish. ;)
Oh absolutely! Won't affect me though, I'll be in the verse pretending to be a space medic while selling a little bit of weed as a side hustle.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 8,270   +7,636
Oh damn, that's quite a lot! I think I'm somewhere in the neighbourhood of $80, got the starter pack and then upgraded my ship a few years ago.
Others have much more in. I'm not planning on putting any more in at this point. I bought an initial pack, then later on, I got two more ships with LTI, and a couple hangar upgrades as well as some in-game cash.

Honestly, I've barely played it. One these weekends, I'll figure out how to get my HOTAS up and running with it and jump in. When I did get into it several years back, there were "physics" malfunctions in the flight training session. I wish they would bring the flight training back.
I like dipping in every quarter and seeing what the latest is. I keep up with the development through their YouTube channel as well, quite fascinating seeing how much effort that's gone into the game. Citizencon in 8 days!

I do wish we'd get a proper update on Squadron 42 though, I know they've said they're being deliberately quiet so not to spoil anything but damn, If they cancelled SQ-42 we'd probably never even notice they're so quiet.
Did you get a package before they split the two into separate packs? I was in early enough that my package includes SQ-42, but I agree. They do not often let us know how the development of SQ-42 is progressing.
Oh absolutely! Won't affect me though, I'll be in the verse pretending to be a space medic while selling a little bit of weed as a side hustle.
IOW - you'll be playing rather than complaining.