The first hardware revision of the PS5 looks like a step backwards

Tom Yum

Posts: 135   +301
Again Power, voltage and temperature are interrelated and you cannot affect one without affect the others ..... If you allow the power draw to be the same while putting a smaller less efficient cooling solution on it the temps are going to skyrocket ..... I guarantee they also use thermal throttling, if not these things aren't going to last very long (Plus thermal throttling is built into the Zen 2 architecture)

I base that on 27 years experience as an electronics engineer and 35 years experience on the x86 platform which is what a PS5 is now
We are having two different arguments, because you aren't understanding that the PS5 doesn't 'boost' or adjust clocks based on temperature like a PC does. Of course power draw increases with voltage and clock. It also increases depending on the specific load (is it hammering all the ALU's, or the cache, or running a tight loop that is not impacting much of the SoC circuitry). Whereas PC's adjust clock speeds (and the voltage needed to support them) based on 1) available thermal headroom and 2) CPU load, the PS5 targets a set power draw and varies clocks to sustain that across a range of CPU loads. It can also adjusts GPU and CPU clocks (under developer control) based on the desired power split between them (some games are CPU limited, some are GPU limited), but within the total set power draw for the SoC.

The point I am making is for PS5 1) power is kept constant, 2) voltage is unknown, but likely is scaled based on clock speed, and 3) clock speed is varied to maintain power. So if the PS5 is running a load that is hammering more parts of the SoC, naturally clocks will reduce to maintain a set power draw. If the load is lighter, then clocks will increase to maintain the same power draw. Power dissipation = power draw, and therefore if power draw is static, temperature is static for a given cooling solution. Sony reducing the size of the cooling system will obviously increase temperature, but this won't affect performance unless the temperature exceeds the thermal throttling limit. If the steady temp before was 60C, and now it is 80C, that won't affect performance unless the thermal throttling limit is less than 80C. There is no evidence yet that the revision leads to thermal throttling (because the previous cooling solution had headroom) or that Sony has lowered the allowable power draw, therefore we can conclude that performance isn't affected by the change in cooling, making the quote from the article incorrect.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 3,872   +1,922
Yeah but that just needed the thermal paste reapplied and possibly a better fan, though I think it was more about the paste. /s.
Fixed mine ty YouTube.


I agree though this is a stupid move. No one wants less cooling. All we want is less problems and more storage. I want 2tb minimum. Or no storage, and let me go buy the drive I want running my games, while receiving a nice discount of the initial box.

They could tube that heat sink. 2 holes each side leading out. Then a possibility to sell an after market external rad for water cooling.
You crossed the line between console and PC with those requested changes.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 467   +823
As a PS fan, this is looks bad for PS5 and Sony.

But let's get some things straight:
1. A few degrees hotter is not gonna kill the PS5, or thermal throttle it. They can just increase the fan speed if that's the case, so it would be louder.
2. They reduced the heatsink size quite a bit, but made the fan blades bigger (something this article does not say, but you can find the info on other sites and also look at the pictures).
3. Austin Evans is a known Xbox shill and he did not do a proper test, so that is that.
4. I'll wait for other non-biased testers, mainly Gamer's Nexus to prove these findings are correct or wrong, before giving my final judgement.

Nevertheless the fact that Sony did this and they themselves did not come 1st with the explanation and testing to prove it's not an issue, gave MS and their shills free ammunition to shoot at Sony and PS5. So it's Sony's fault 100%.

There is a reason I don't buy consoles when they launch, but after the Slim model comes or even as late as Pro model. I can wait for better versions.

P.S. I have QuantumP. blocked for a reason. He's not worth the wasted time of a reply.
 

Watzupken

Posts: 386   +357
Biased or not, I feel the lost of heatsink size tends to negatively impact cooling. Assuming the new fan does improve airflow, I don't think it can fully make up for the simpler heatsink. I feel the only benefit with the new heatsink design is because there are less fins making it easier for air to pass through. So overall, assuming same fan used, airflow may improve somewhat. Just my guess here. But I think it is worth a relook at thermals and noise with this new heatsink.
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 381   +382
Will be interesting to see a proper tear down / test, and to find out if the new model will use the new 6mm APU. All eyes will be on Sony here, because they did not execute the PS4 Pro cooling solution well, at least not the first iteration.

I also modded my outrageously noisy PS4 Pro with third party thermal interfaces - it did mitigate the issue, but there is some risk, and it also voids any warranty still in place. Users simply shouldn't have to resort to these things.

For the record, the current PS5 unit doesn't appear to have any audiable issues with its cooling solution. Not yet anyway. I'm aware the community had identified some potential issues with memory cooling, but in day to day usage it seems to be pretty quiet and stable - as you'd expect it to be.

 

3volv3d

Posts: 415   +215
You crossed the line between console and PC with those requested changes.
Have I? Will there not be a moment when it all becomes one, shut up spice girls.
I like modular PSUs there's a box, connect what you want.
I want a PC or console that does the same. You don't open it. You just connect mods to it. Swap out for upgrades. Ram is a cylinder as is storage etc.
Sata and docking bays I thought would be the start of it and everything went pcie lanes. M.2 etc.
I liked the idea of switching a master HDD depending if I wanted to go windows, Ubuntu, mint, or in 2028 PlayStationOS.
I want a mongrel hybrid.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 3,872   +1,922
Have I? Will there not be a moment when it all becomes one, shut up spice girls.
I like modular PSUs there's a box, connect what you want.
I want a PC or console that does the same. You don't open it. You just connect mods to it. Swap out for upgrades. Ram is a cylinder as is storage etc.
Sata and docking bays I thought would be the start of it and everything went pcie lanes. M.2 etc.
I liked the idea of switching a master HDD depending if I wanted to go windows, Ubuntu, mint, or in 2028 PlayStationOS.
I want a mongrel hybrid.
A Console is a console until it becomes a PC...
 
Biased or not, I feel the lost of heatsink size tends to negatively impact cooling. Assuming the new fan does improve airflow, I don't think it can fully make up for the simpler heatsink. I feel the only benefit with the new heatsink design is because there are less fins making it easier for air to pass through. So overall, assuming same fan used, airflow may improve somewhat. Just my guess here. But I think it is worth a relook at thermals and noise with this new heatsink.
The higher heat output out the back means that heat is being blown out and not diffusing through the chassis. So it's obviously working.
 

FatBoyDiesel

Posts: 10   +9
Although not as beefy, I noticed longer (albeit narrower) fin stacks along with longer heat pipes that should dissipate heat further from the center and closer to the cooling fan. The bulkier cooler is closer to the center where the SoC would be located, so this revision may be a net positive. That should theoretically provide more efficient cooling, which should result in similar thermals with less material. And may also be the precursor to a PS5 Slim.

Until we see any comprehensive testing, this pre-emptive outrage is unnecessary. I'm waiting to see what that cooler can do.
 

Mjswooosh

Posts: 65   +84
As a PS fan, this is looks bad for PS5 and Sony.

But let's get some things straight:
1. A few degrees hotter is not gonna kill the PS5, or thermal throttle it. They can just increase the fan speed if that's the case, so it would be louder.
2. They reduced the heatsink size quite a bit, but made the fan blades bigger (something this article does not say, but you can find the info on other sites and also look at the pictures).
3. Austin Evans is a known Xbox shill and he did not do a proper test, so that is that.
4. I'll wait for other non-biased testers, mainly Gamer's Nexus to prove these findings are correct or wrong, before giving my final judgement.

Nevertheless the fact that Sony did this and they themselves did not come 1st with the explanation and testing to prove it's not an issue, gave MS and their shills free ammunition to shoot at Sony and PS5. So it's Sony's fault 100%.

There is a reason I don't buy consoles when they launch, but after the Slim model comes or even as late as Pro model. I can wait for better versions.

P.S. I have QuantumP. blocked for a reason. He's not worth the wasted time of a reply.

1. Greater heat is known to shorten the life-span of all electronics and silicon. It's difficult to say if this will happen within the usable life of a console. That's the question. Will this come into play within, say, 5 years? Unlikely. 10? Possibly. 15? Probably. In the future, it's likely this will be the "revision to avoid" for PS5 collectors.

2. The fan shroud is the same size and weight. The angle and number of the blades is different, which probably changes the cooling profile a bit. Based on a sample of 1, it appears the sound profile is slightly dampened, which may mean the fan is able to cool slightly more efficiently...cooling about the same without producing as much noise. In any case, it doesn't appear to make up for the loss of heatsink material.

3. Austin isn't a "Xbox shill." That's ridiculous. He even brought in the dude from the PSReady channel to do the teardown, likely in anticipation of such accusations. Is the PSReady guy a "Xbox shill" too?

4. There's nothing wrong with waiting for more teardowns. But, based on the way you seem to be approaching this it sounds like you would be a perfect candidate for Sony PR telling you not to believe your lying eyes.

This is pretty straight forward. They appear to have reduced the cooling unit size by almost half and taken out 80-90% of the copper. Fanboy nonsense aside, no one in their right mind would say this somehow "good" for the consumer.

There is one thing we can agree on: waiting for a real slim revision with a SOC using more advanced lithography is even more important now. If someone can't get a launch model it would be better to wait. Personally, I always planned on waiting as I find the monstrous physical design of the PS5 to be gaudy/tacky and won't put that thing in my entertainment center. Making the cooling system worse just further reinforces that decision.
 

Mjswooosh

Posts: 65   +84
What?! Sony was able to redesign the fan to be more efficient!? How dare they!!!

The higher temp coming out of the back means more heat is blowing out and not being diffused through the chassis.

This is a wrong assumption.

If you move more air through a heatsink that outputs the same amount of heat the air temperature will decrease because the energy density in the air that is exhausted goes down.

Yet, according to your logic the cooling would be "worse."

So, a higher air temperature out the back could also indicate that there is less air moving...or that the system is simply outputting more heat.

The upshot: temperature of the air exiting a cooler does not tell you anything about the effectiveness of the cooler without some other information.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 467   +823
1. Greater heat is known to shorten the life-span of all electronics and silicon. It's difficult to say if this will happen within the usable life of a console. That's the question. Will this come into play within, say, 5 years? Unlikely. 10? Possibly. 15? Probably. In the future, it's likely this will be the "revision to avoid" for PS5 collectors.

2. The fan shroud is the same size and weight. The angle and number of the blades is different, which probably changes the cooling profile a bit. Based on a sample of 1, it appears the sound profile is slightly dampened, which may mean the fan is able to cool slightly more efficiently...cooling about the same without producing as much noise. In any case, it doesn't appear to make up for the loss of heatsink material.

3. Austin isn't a "Xbox shill." That's ridiculous. He even brought in the dude from the PSReady channel to do the teardown, likely in anticipation of such accusations. Is the PSReady guy a "Xbox shill" too?

4. There's nothing wrong with waiting for more teardowns. But, based on the way you seem to be approaching this it sounds like you would be a perfect candidate for Sony PR telling you not to believe your lying eyes.

This is pretty straight forward. They appear to have reduced the cooling unit size by almost half and taken out 80-90% of the copper. Fanboy nonsense aside, no one in their right mind would say this somehow "good" for the consumer.

There is one thing we can agree on: waiting for a real slim revision with a SOC using more advanced lithography is even more important now. If someone can't get a launch model it would be better to wait. Personally, I always planned on waiting as I find the monstrous physical design of the PS5 to be gaudy/tacky and won't put that thing in my entertainment center. Making the cooling system worse just further reinforces that decision.
I mostly agree with what you said except:

3. Austin is what I said he is. He has 200 million (exaggeration) Xbox pro-videos, he's the first one invited to test the new XSX (after or before launch, I forgot) and only does PS videos when he has something bad to say about Sony/PS.
Yeah, I don't need more proof. Him and Colteastwood can hold hands while strolling on the Xbox rose tinted road of dreams and wishes of Uncle Phill.

5. I take objective testings, like Gamers Nexus, before Sony PR and I take Sony PR before pro-Xbox shills. In that order. Perfectly fine rationale.

I also hope the Slim is not only... err slimmer, but also better looking and all BLACK.
 

Tom Yum

Posts: 135   +301
This is a wrong assumption.

If you move more air through a heatsink that outputs the same amount of heat the air temperature will decrease because the energy density in the air that is exhausted goes down.

Yet, according to your logic the cooling would be "worse."

So, a higher air temperature out the back could also indicate that there is less air moving...or that the system is simply outputting more heat.

The upshot: temperature of the air exiting a cooler does not tell you anything about the effectiveness of the cooler without some other information.
The real takeaway is that without airflow data, the temperature of the exhaust tells you nothing about how effectively the heatsink operates. Heat flow = temp plus airspeed, we only have temp. If the airspeed is the same and power is the same, then higher exhaust temp would imply the heatsink is actually performing better because it is drawing more heat away from the SoC and into the exhaust airflow, which would reduce SoC temperatures.

Why anyone would go to the effort of sourcing a new PS5 from Japan and doing this teardown, without slapping a $2 thermocouple near the actual SoC to measure the heatsink temp near the SoC, if not the actual SoC temp, is mystifying.
 

EdmondRC

Posts: 185   +249
These consoles are such a bargain right now when compared to the PC market, I'm not surprised to see Sony making cost cutting revisions. Is it a worse solution? Well, we will only know for sure if there is a real performance difference or increased failure rate of the new units. Until then, you either trust Sony's engineers, wait two years or so for the slim revision to release, or skip the PS5.